The idea that Christians are somehow non-judgmental is laughable. They don’t even pretend to follow that rule. It’s truly pathetic.
From Facebook:
(I’ll post the entire thread soon. There are about 200 comments.)
More stupid…
What these people don’t seem to understand is that they are proving my case with comments like these. *sigh*
Tom and Michael,
If you ever see this, I just wanted to say thank you for being the perfect example of my point and allowing me to give such a clear instance where Christians are horrible and cruel with their disgusting behavior and hatred. I’m sorry to tell you that “God” does not give you the right to say things like this and it’s considered unacceptable in modern society. Please get over yourselves.
Oh, and Tom wants to be a lawyer. Yeah… That should be interesting.
Tom can barely compose a coherent sentence. Glad to see at least one person in that thread had your back. I hope there were others amongst the bits you haven’t included.
Christians are actually the MOST judgmental people that I know. And they love to flaunt their ignorance. Give them enough rope….
Either you don’t know a lot of people or perhaps the “Christians” you know aren’t really Christians at all. The Christians I know are the most loving, patient and caring people I know. As far as ignorance goes, that’s just your opinion. Ignorance about what? Chemistry? Construction? Relationships? Can’t bake cakes?
No True Scotsman?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
If you can’t be bothered to read the link, the “No true scotsman” fallacy says that anyone of any group that behaves is “not a TRUE member” of said group.
This is similar to your placing “Christians” in quotations. You are implying that “no true christian” would behave so badly.
It is HILARIOUS how often Christians say this. News flash: they’re nice around you because it’s easy. It’s easy to be polite when everyone is in a hive mind. But look at how the worker bees act when they feel like the queen is threatened…!
Here’s a conversation betweten two christians…. these are real qoutes in the conversation that I was in between a couple of evolutionists *myself included* and a few creationists…it started civil but by the end the creationists were screaming hell fire and us evolutionists were laughing… when we should have held our footing in intelligent discourse but to error is human.. anyway …on to the qoutes…
Believer 1: “Well the evolutionist just doesn’t understand creation or doesn’t want to, but all people should be free to study and learn about God’s creation.”
Believer 2: “Yes its a bit sad that they cannot see the truth as we do. I will continue to pray for their salvation in hopes that one day they can open their eyes.”
… I have a feeling that these are the kind of loveing and caring Christians Gene are talking about? The ones that, to his ears at least, sound genuinely interested in saving an atheist soul….
What i’m sure you don’t understand and probably won’t understand Gene is that those so called loving and caring Christians are just as evil and insulting as the Christians that outright say “you will burn in hell and Satan will rape you.”…
…let me take a shot at explaining why there is really no such thing as a loving and caring christian…
Believer 1′s qoute is highly insulting …. why? They are saying Evolutionists… the people who have schooling, facts and science behind their arguments.. could never possibly be right and are incapable of being right or getting the truth.. and that creationists know the hard facts and truth because the book they believe in says so.. you cannot get any more insulting..
and the automatic assumption that they are so sure it was their specific god that created this world contrary to current understanding and evidence.
Believer 2 is equally insulting…
We have studied the facts, we look up and research this information. We don’t just read what one person says on a subject and believe it from there on in.. we read what one scientist says about evolution and what he has found in his studies.. then we read what another scientist says about what they found… then another… and another.. now we believe in evolution because we have at least a basic understanding of how it works and have by now seen enough evidences to know it is a real factual process… but guess what? We read what another scientist has to say about evolution and his findings in study.. and another.. and another… it never ends..we continue forever to better our understanding and knowledge.
…. yet we lack understanding and knowledge of the “truth”, but that “truth” is only written in one book… we are the ones keeping our eyes shut?
No my friend Gene.. your loving, caring christian friends that you know are every bit as evil and vile to us as the next one.
P.S
Does any christian you know Stone their children to death for disrespecting them?
Do they ware clothes that are made out of only one fabric at a time.
Do they never covet things?
Do they think homosexuals are an abomination?
do they belive the scripture is 100% inerrent?
If they can answer yes to all of these questions they could very well be a “real christian”.. if they answer no to even a single one of these they arn’t “real christians”..
To be of a faith you must follow what that faith says… to deviate from that path YOU ARE NO LONGER A CHRISTIAN.. you are of a religion that you yourself just completely made up.. you cannot just ignore the parts you don’t like and still call yourself a christian.. which is what every christian i’ve ever met does. Period.
Don’t believe the hype, most people support you Jessica. Most people, and even a lot of Christians, are tried of judgmental religious nut jobs.
Also, I’m sure if the prayer in your school was a Muslim one, they’d be all over getting it removed.
You rock young lady and millions of people stand with you.
I wish I’d had even half the guts that you do when I was in high school. It’s nice to see so many people standing up for their rights where so many are afraid to. The more people like you there are, the more will follow your example.
Keep on rocking it, you’ve got the right of the law (and just general human decency) on your side.
Basically, thanks for doing what my friends and I couldn’t.
Jessica:
I just wanted to say that I NEVER would have had the courage to stand up like you are while still in High school, and I wish all the time that I had. Thank-you for what you are doing, and for making it easier for others like you to do the same.
A fellow Jessica
Hi….
I am not from your area and how I came across this page I honestly will never know! What I do know is that I am a Christian and I myself have had doubts. Because of a lot of different circumstances in my life I can say that things will never be fully understood, there will always be extremists (in every religion or group in general), and that at the end of the day every single person has the ability to leave some type of everlasting impact on at least one other person (whether good or bad is completely up to that person). You are right…. religion does so often tear people apart. I am true to my faith and my beliefs and although I love my church family, staying away from silly tussles is the best thing to do. People are just that….human. We all make mistakes and we all have our problems, jealousies, etc. which causes us to break away at things, such as our religion, for no apparent reason.
With that said, I commend you on your efforts. Although I am a devout Christian, I do believe in diversity as well as the seperation between church and state. I am a pre-law major and honestly whether I agreed with it or not is beside the point because at the end of the day, upholding the Constitution and the rulings from the Supreme Court regarding its interpretaion are what we must stick to withholding. Youre right, many rulings have been re-examined throughout history to give rights to peoples (including myself as a woman!) that were once seen as …. simply ridiculous.
Now while I commend you on your maturity in the political arena, I hope I can offer a little advice and guidance. Feel free to take it or leave it. You seem very smart and driven. I hope that banter from ignorant people (who claim Christian ideals and then run their mouths in rude ways that is very un-Christian like) will not deter you from taking the high road and being stereotypical towards the rest of us. Not every Christian is ignorant, just like not every Atheist is immoral, or every Jewish person cheap. Stereotypes lend us to a very long and hurtful path. You will (I promise) gain more support in the long run (for any project you set your mind to) if you do not let the hate get to you and remember why it is you are striving towards that current project. Keep your motivators in the right place and never falter. But always be up for peaceful negotiations
Again, I wish you all the best and I sincerely hope that maybe this helps to give you a better idea of what MOST Christians should/would say and feel. There should be no ill-will felt towards you …. if even one person is uncomfortable then perhaps it should be re-examined. Like I said, I do not know a lot about the situation (and keep in mind that facebook is indeed a new and tricky sibject with laws that are stuck in the stone age). Good luck and God bless you in all you do.
Sincerely,
Sensible Christian that looooves the lawbooks <3
Thank you for that Mary. I’ve been following Jess’ Facebook group for a while now, and I think you’d be happy enough that she appears to be staying pretty level headed about the whole thing. She has also taken a very appropriately sized stick to the occasional over-enthusiastic supporter too, so I believe she is quite capable of remembering what she is fighting for.
Beyond that, there are quite a few of us also quite ready to do battle with other atheists if they get too big for their boots…she’s in safe hands with us
Hey Jessica!
I’m keenly following your story from across the sea. Really respect what you and others like you are doing.
I have a small request. I’m blind and cannot read the text in the images you’ve posted. Would it be possible to include a copy/paste of the actual text from the conversation thread? I’ll be able to read and follow it then and would be extremely appreciative.
Hope to hear you on some more podcasts, too. Your appearance on the non-prophets made it one of the best episodes I’ve heard in a while.
Take care and keep standing up for what’s right. Wish I could be closer to stand by you.
SJ
SJ,
I used an online OCR site to generate this for the two images in the post. I thought it would save some time and effort on Jess’s behalf. Hope this helps!
For the first image:
Jessica Ahlquist: People believing something is true doesn’t make it right. Millions of people supported slavery, but that didn’t make it right either.
Tom: dont mean to say that supports creation its just the truth. Also theres countless more evidence I could show you that you still cant refute but its not even worth it. And believe me you do not want to hear my personal opinion because you would kill youself. But because im a christran ill refrain from exercising my first amendment right which you in your ignorance want to destroy
Jessica Ahlquist: I can assure you, I would never be harming myself over something that someone like you said or thinks about me. Your opinion of me is obvious, but its completely wrong and I couldn’t care less.
Also, I’m not taking away your first amendment right. I’m trying to defend mine. Why don’t you go get the prayer put on a t-shirt and you can wear it to school everyday? I’d have absolutely no problem with that. Plus, it’s legal.
Tom: No my opinion of you is shared by 95% of this community, school, country, and planet. Most of it is factual and obvious to anyone who looks at you but I wouldnt want to hurt your feelings.
Or i can put it on my school which is legal just like you could put one up if you believed in anything. Idk what is so mean about that prayer. Who would ever want to be a good sport or work hard in school. Morals are so wrong.
Jessica Ahlquist: You would love to hurt my feelings, who are you kidding? And no, actually Not 95% of the planet.
Ton: im sorry. the correct statistic for world believers is 85%. my b
Second image:
Michael: are your rights worth nobody liking you lmfaooooo because your gonna be cranstons biggest douche bag for the next ten years. One day people will randomly say “hey remember that little cunt that tried to take the prayer down.” good job, hope the fame was worth it.
Jessica Ahlquist: My rights are worth the fight and the hate, yes. And its only immature idiots like you and Tom who hate me for doing the right thing.
Taylor: I’m pretty sure you’re the one being the douche. Jess has been nothing but respectful throughout all of this. I love how you all think that the way you’re actng is great but not wanting your school to violate the establishment clause is douchey. I don’t know, I guess I just can’t see it your way. My logic is still somewhat linear.
Michael: your pissing alot of people off, obviously not the right thing. And dont be naive and says its only me and tom, pretty sure its 9 out of 10 people in cranston
Jessica Ahlquist: 9 out of 10 people in Cranston don’t know the Constitubon then.
Also, defending your rights is the American thing to do. What a patriot you are.
And guess what? Back in the day, saying that blacks or females deserved equal rights was wrong too. 9 out of 10 people disagreed with those who stood up for their rights. Not so different from this case.
Good to know that if your rights were being violated, you would just hush up because, “oh no! the majority hates me!!!”
The difference between us is that I’m not afraid of immature haters like you who want to repress anyone who disagrees with them.
Thanks David, that was great.
Can I ask what OCR site you used? I haven’t had much luck with the ones I have looked at previously.
Appreciated.
SJ
I used http://www.onlineocr.net/ although I did have to make a couple of edits.
Unfortunately, I suspect this might not be a viable option for you, as that site has CAPCHAs without audio support.
Definitely! I’ll type up the whole thread and post it soon
Thanks Jess!
Internet yummies for everyone.
I am so impressed by you, Jessica. I grew up as a fundamentalist of the type that would have been one of those people judging and condemning you, and it took me decades to realize that it was all wrong. I never would have been as smart or courageous as you at that age.
Also, hey Tom – there’s a group called Americans United for Separation of Church and State that is primarily made of religious members, including being headed by a minister. A lot of Christians realize that government interference in religion is bad for religion, too.
Jessica, I just sent you a friend request (it won’t be under Mrs. Chili, though – it’s my real name – check the email I listed with this post to see who’s me). I want to be on your facebook team; stuff like this makes me crazy.
It’s amazing how many people argue that their opinion is right because it’s popular…
…and I’m just one of millions who fully support your efforts!
Oh, that was an interesting couple of days…you need to write about the drive-by preachers.
Keep standing tough, Jessica! You’re right…these tools are only proving their own ignorance and hatred. You handled yourself very well!
It reminds me of a discussion I got into with someone on Facebook. They said they’d “pray for me to pull my head out of my ass.” LOL Can you feel the love?
Hi.
I’m an “old fart” who deconverted myself back in 1985-1988, with no access to the Internet and very little access to any books or other atheists. Yup, I just started thinking about it and came to the necessary conclusion.
I am certain that you have been told this many times, but once you escape from high school, it’s a whole different world out there, and high school, and all of your classmates, will be, more or less, out of the picture unless you choose to interact with them. Additionally, if you move to another area you really can, socially, start all over again.
I escaped from high school decades ago, and have only had any contact with two of my classmates, and only by my choice. Consider, if you will, the high school experience as going to the dentist and having a tooth drilled. It’s uncomfortable and painful for a short while, but you know it will not last all that long, and when it’s over with, you move on with your regularly scheduled life.
Fight the good fight, and remain loyal to your true nature.
That’s some potent “love” right there. Hope you don’t have too much longer ’till college. Takes some time but it definitely gets better.
What a brave young lady, you are! I never would have been brave enough to stand up to so much hatred when I was your age. I was still blindly following the Bible at that point and didn’t even realize the Christians I knew were the ones oozing the hate, not the other way around. I’ve been an atheist for many years and am a much nicer person.
Keep fighting the fight. There are so many good people behind you! You are already wise beyond your years, but once you get to college you’ll be hailed a hero instead of this small town villain these children would like to pain you as. Clearly they have no idea why separation of church and state is just as important for them as for you. They always think it’s great for God to be involved, until some one else wants a different god involved.
Hi Jessica,
I found your story along with Damon Fowlers while browsing online and just wanted to offer my support for what you’re fighting for. Not many people would be brave enough to do what you’re doing so please, keep it up.
Dave, A UK Atheist
Everyone is always screaming abouit thier rights. When do you think about the rights of the others involved? Don’t they have the same rights as you? When you want to take down their prayer you are intruding on their right to freedom of religion. Thats why this country is so messed up, everyone is thinking of themselves.
De–
“Everyone is always screaming abouit thier rights.”
If your rights were violated, would you not scream about it? I hope so.
“When do you think about the rights of the others involved? Don’t they have the same rights as you?”
All the time, and yes. It’s in part because everyone has the same rights that battles like this must take place. That prayer is a violation of the the First Amendment, which provides for several rights that afford protection to everyone: Christian, Jew, atheist, Muslim, Jain, Wiccan, etc.
“When you want to take down their prayer you are intruding on their right to freedom of religion”
No, she’s not. Every student there is free to pray to themselves, to chat with each other about their religion, and to gather outside of school and sing praises to the heavens. That right to freedom of religion does not extend to imposing beliefs on others, and it especially does not extend to the government endorsing a religion or religious viewpoint. Indeed, government endorsement is a violation of the Establishment clause of the First Amendment.
If this school were a private, Christian school, that prayer could stay right where it is, and your objection might actually make sense. But, this is a public, government-run school, and thus the presence of that prayer acts as endorsement of the prayer, and it’s religious content, by the government. THAT is the problem here.
“Thats why this country is so messed up, everyone is thinking of themselves.”
Even if I accepted the over-generalization that “everyone” is being self-centered, I would not agree that it’s the only reason this country is messed up. In this particular instance, the implication that Jessica is only thinking of herself is patently absurd. If that were true, then it would’ve made more sense for her to quit this fight long ago, rather than deal with the hate and vitriol flung her way.
Let me ask you this De: if that prayer started “Our Heavenly Mother,” would you still feel that the prayer should stay where it is?
@Jessica: Did I miss anything, do you have anything to add, or any disagreement with what I said?
De: You are mistaken. The Establishment Clause prohibits the use of Federal tax dollars on religious content. In a private school, you’re allowed to include prayer, since it is not being supported by Federal dollars.
Your rights under the Free Exercise Clause are significant, but not relevant here. You do not have a right to exercise your religion by using Federal or State government bodies as proxies in your fight to get out your religious message. You never have, and you never will while the Constitution remains intact.
This country is indeed messed up because people are thinking of themselves. There are an inordinate number of conservative Christians with a complete dearth of rational thinking ability in this country, and they come up with ridiculous, egocentric ideas, such as those that you articulated.
It’s self-centered to try to use a public school to impose your religion on those who do not share it. It’s beyond absurd to go on the internet and cry about the fact that the people being victimized are standing up for the separation of church and state guaranteed by the Constitution and 221 years of judicial interpretation thereof.
In short: you have no right to exercise your religion using tax dollars and majority political strength in a particular district. That’s just not how America (and its law) works.
That prayer should never have been displayed in a public school. Church is the proper place. Putting it up was a violation of the law. Shame it had stayed up as long as it did. And besides, who are you to chose which prayer which religion to display?
There are people that thick and they want to be Lawyers?
I weep for that prats English teacher!
Yeah, he might be able to get into a (terrible) law school, but nobody with spelling and grammar that awful is ever going to succeed at a high academic level. His complete lack of understanding of logical processes will not help.
I welcome him trying, though – the legal profession is already overfilled, and I’d love to see a little dick like him adding to the unemployment statistics.
I’m SO proud of you for seeing their hypocrisy, ignoring their attempts at insults, and calling them back on it.
I’m hoping that your efforts will be soon noticed by some of the ‘big guns’ (Harris, Hitch, Degrasse Tyson, etc) and they’ll contact you offering their support. The Non-Prophets call definitely won’t hurt.
By the by, I came here via atheism.about.com, which came via Friendly atheist.
MikeC
Regarding the first lot of drive by insults I assume that Tom is a creationist? Such a blatant display of ignorance should go uncommented though it is a little unclear if this is the case.
You are quite right to point out that the majority opinion is irrelevant when it comes to protecting rights. It also doesn’t matter if the opinions are popular or not. That is simply an argumentum ad populum or appeal to majority fallacy. Some might even have the audacity to suggest that these protected rights exist in order to prevent the majority from imposing their views on the minority. Shocking, I know.
For point of fact the 85% of the US being religious figure is pretty accurate. It is more in some places and less in others. As a world wide figure it is woefully inaccurate. In the UK for example only 15% of people attend church once a month or more and only 38% of people claim to believe in God. As ever Wikipedia is your friend. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism
Oh and I meant to add a personal note. By what these people are saying and doing you can categorise them as bigots without fear of any inaccuracy.
Treat them as such and don’t take other people’s bigotry to heart. You’ve done nothing wrong and have nothing to defend. They are the ones with the problem.
If you’re interested in having a guest blog poster please let me know. I will provide you with unique content for your webstie, thanks.
My blog is on Heart healthy diet.
What does atheism have to do with a diet?
I don’t know about how you guys feel, but the opinion of the people in Cranston, RI is definitely on the top of my list of what matters most.
Sounds like a typical small town, in its bubble. I came from a similar one in Minnesota. I hope you graduate soon so you can get away from those idiots.
I don’t understand why you give into the trolls like Tom and Michael and actually have conversations with them. I didn’t bother reading the conversations, because I honestly don’t care what they have to say.
I’m a devout Catholic, and I can say with confidence that none of the people I consider to be “good Christians” would act “horrible and cruel” towards anybody.
I can see how anyone would grow to greatly dislike Christians if these were the only ones they ever came into contact with. You have to understand that we have had very similar issues with Atheists acting with hostility towards us. We just have to remember that the extremists on both sides of the fence yell louder that than the well-mannered moderates.
Just remember, people don’t care until they know you care. No matter how poorly people treat you, try and act with love and compassion always!
- A Catholic on a college campus
It’s a waste of time arguing with some Christians (if not most) indeed. They are stubborn, irrational and ridiculous. They make groundless points completely based on their own belief and slam down others’ ideas because they think faith trumps evidence every time.(which it certainly doesn’t!!!) Yet, in a bigger picture, I think it’s also necessary to publicly and ruthlessly mock certain aspects of the tripe they spew just to let others know how funny they are.
I’m not a hater of God. But I may be a hater of Christians.
Keep it up. Don’t let idiots like those two stop you, it is illegal to post stuff like that in a public school and they need to learn that. Their response to the situation is a clear indication of the lacking of a moral high ground they claim to have.
Hey Jessica, I’m Harrisons dad. Christians, all their goodness and kindness comes out when someone thinks different. Harrison had so many threats and insults from our good CHRISTIANS in SC. They really have turned me off. A brainwashed cult you’d think. I was discusted over the reaction these great CHRISTIANS made over all this. All my kin folks are Southern Baptist in Ga. I consider myself a realist, I believe when you die , you die. If when I die and I can look down and see Harrison is doing good, thats when I might believe! Around here our so called Lovers of GOD seem to be haters if you don’t think that way. Wanting to beat someone up just because they don’t think like them sure doesnt sound too Christian to me, more like southern rednecks to me. At least ya’ll don’t try to shove it down our throats like they do. They can be quite overbearing sometimes. I don’t see or hear any of this coming from ya’ll!!!! I’m very proud of Harrison for being open and not afraid to present himself for who he really is. You should always be in control of your minds! When you turn it over to worship something, that controls your whole being, to where you insult and bash people because you dont believe as they do, then I don’t think thats the kind of person I’d want to be. Sure doesn’t sound like the Christian way!!!!!
I have a quick question for you because I’m curious. You said “I believe when you die, you die. If when I die and I can look down and see Harrison is doing good, that’s when I might believe”
If you die, and just die, why would you say you are looking down? Where are you that you are looking down? It sounds to me like you believe there is a Heaven you would be “looking down” from. If that is the case, then there must be a God, because God is in Heaven. Please explain because I don’t understand where you are “looking down” from if you believe you just, poof, die.
Why don’t you just leave well enough alone? Are there people stopping and praying at the site of this “prayer”? This thing has been there since 1963. How long are YOU going to be there? Do you have to spend hours on end staring at it? Have you lost sleep because someone forced you to recite it? Wouldn’t it just be easier to just turn you head and pass your time , graduate , and leave everything alone? What purpose does this serve other that to upset people? For it to bother you that much, you must be very convicted.
I may not like a certain college team, but I don’t sue because I see banners up supporting them. Just look the other way and find something that’s actually important to take up the cause for, like environmental issues, or feeding the homeless. In the realm of what’s important, a mural that’s been up for 47 years that probably no one paid attention to until you made people notice it doesn’t really bear weight.
@Terry
Yes, yes, let’s just leave stuff as it is. I mean, women demanding the right to vote? Blacks and whites going to the same schools? The Civil Rights Act? The Food and Drug Administration (came about after The Jungle was published)? All of it caused by people messing with the system and not “leaving well enough alone”, am I right?
In case you missed the sarcasm, maybe you’re not familiar with the Establishment Clause. Read up on it and find out why the prayer appearing in a public school is inappropriate.
Nice work finding ONE example of a THEIST who is just your average ordinary guy. By insulting him and calling him stupid, you’re only proving yourself to be a hypocrite.
Atheism is good?
WRONG.
Atheism is bad.
Atheism forms into Satanism is some cases where your kind have practiced the same abominations as Catholic priests, abusing little children.
Great tyrants have been atheists and have used the “survival of the fittest” statement from Darwin to support their crimes.
Further more, the oppressive communism is form from atheism and we all see how communists treat their people.
No thanks, I’d rather not have your atheism rubbish. The theory doesn’t hold water either:
Sorry, that argument doesn’t hold water. Churches have always existed. Churches were the temple back in the time of King David and people went and prayed there together then. It’s okay for Christians, Jews and Muslims to pray together in a place where it’s said that they can pray but if they pray out in the street, it’s wrong.
So it’s okay to pray in school when everyone else is doing so. You atheists really need to learn how to understand The Bible.
Now let us look at your pathetic bullshit atheism:
Question 1:
Are there any fossils showing the evolutionary process of ape to man?
Answer:
No. No such fossils exist. No fossils exist showing the evolutionary process of ape to man, no fossils exist showing the evolutionary process of dinosaur to mammal and no fossils exist showing the evolutionary process of dinosaur to bird (and before someone posts an image of that dinosaur bird, that’s exactly what it is – a dinosaur bird and nothing more which is why there are no fossils showing the evolutionary process of it.).
Question 2:
Okay. So no fossils exist but evidence has shown that we have evolved from groups of apes from all around the world.
Answer:
Nope! Eve is the ancestor of all female humans and science even supports this. Science claims that all females can trace their ancestry back to one woman. Where science has got it wrong is where they claim Eve was not the first woman and they call her Mitochondrial Eve when Mitochondrial Eve is actually Eve from Genesis. The fact that SCIENCE NOW ACKNOWLEDGES THAT WE CAME FROM ONE WOMAN AND MAN supports the Genesis account of the origin of mankind. Is it a coincidence that The Bible says that everyone can track their ancestors back to Adam and Eve (one woman and man) and now science almost says the same? No, it’s not a coincidence.
Question 3:
Okay. So no fossils exist and we came from one woman and man. What about the DNA linking us to ape with 98% of our DNA matching theirs?
Answer:
Sorry evolutionists, scientists identified some 40 million differences among the three billion DNA molecules, or nucleotides, in each genome of human and chimp/ape which separates us MASSIVELY from chimps and apes. 40 million differences makes us completely different from chimps and shows we aren’t a higher form of ape and that our DNA do not match theirs. Science has proved itself that we don’t share 98% DNA with apes.
Further more, scientists once said that we share 99% of our DNA with mouses. We know that’s obvious bullshit and you’d have to be an idiot to believe in that.
Question 4:
Okay. So no fossils exist, we can trace our ancestry back to one woman and man and our DNA doesn’t match the ape’s DNA but why do some animals look the same?
Answer:
Animals don’t share the same common ancestors. They share the same creator who created every animal with the same blueprint. There is, however, one discovery that appears to make the evolutionary view of descent from a common ancestor look illogical and flawed. This discovery is that structures that appear homologous often develop under the control of genes that are not homologous. If the structures evolved from the same source, you would expect the same genes to make the structures. The fact that these structures are similar (or homologous) is apparent, but the reason is not because of Darwinian evolution. It is more logical and reasonable to believe in a common Creator rather than a common ancestor.
Question 5:
Okay. So no fossils exist, we came from one woman and man and our DNA doesn’t match the ape’s DNA and animals don’t share the same ancestor but how does God exist? I’d still rather believe that we are just random accidents because it makes me feel good about myself.
Answer:
How does God exist? Well let’s look at the human body firstly:
This also destroys theistic evolution for it proves that God actively designed and created man.
We have the human circulatory system which is a very good example of design. Not only does it function very well but it also shows design and a complex structure that only an intelligent being could creation. Next we have the heart pumping blood throughout the body, the lungs which breath in oxygen and release the oxygen and then we have the human body with two matching eyes/ears/eyebrows/nostrils on each level of each other and then we have the perfect structure of the teeth. That’s no random accident, this would describe random:
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Nothing matches, nothing shows design, nothing shows thought, that’s random and the universe and the human body is nothing like that, the human body and universe show thought.
You are free to reply to this and I know this won’t convince you evolutionists that evolution is wrong and you will deny everything here because you’ll claim no sources back any of my statements but you’ll be entirely wrong, a quick Google search or read in a proper science book will reveal all of my words as truth.
Evolution is just a shield for those that are scared of God and truth. It’s called a theory for a reason.
Goodbye.
Question 1:
Are there any fossils showing the evolutionary process of ape to man?
Answer:
No. No such fossils exist. No fossils exist showing the evolutionary process of ape to man, no fossils exist showing the evolutionary process of dinosaur to mammal and no fossils exist showing the evolutionary process of dinosaur to bird (yes, there is the dinosaur bird – Archaeopteryx – but that’s exactly what it is – a dinosaur bird and nothing more which is why there are no fossils showing the evolutionary process of it.).
Darwin himself stated that the biggest argument against his theory would be a lack of transitional fossils which he predicted would be found very shortly. More than a century later and we are still lacking transitional fossils because they don’t exist. If evolution were true, MILLIONS of transitional fossils would exist but none do.
Question 2:
Okay. So no fossils exist but evidence has shown that we have evolved from groups of apes from all around the world.
Answer:
Nope! Eve is the ancestor of all female humans and science even supports this. Science claims that all females can trace their ancestry back to one woman. Where science has got it wrong is where they claim Eve was not the first woman and they call her Mitochondrial Eve. Science says that all women can trace their ancestry back to her but that she didn’t exist at the same time as Y-Chromosome Adam whom all males can trace their ancestry back to. It seems as though science is now saying that it’s possible that we can all trace ancestry back to one man and one woman and this supports the Genesis account of the origin of mankind. Is it a coincidence that The Bible says that everyone can track their ancestors back to Adam and Eve (one woman and man) and now science almost says the same? No, it’s not a coincidence. Science has got it slightly wrong but it’s now supporting what skeptics had previously thought impossible.
No, mankind never came from simply Adam and Eve but THEY were the first humans created. Other humans were created which is why Cain speaks about them when he is exiled from the land of his parents after his kills his brother. He tells God that “others might try to kill him” and God puts a curse on him to prevent this.
The reason why everyone can trace ancestry back to Adam and Eve is because everyone shares ancestry with Noah. Every other human died out during the flood (which all cultures and beliefs speak of) save for Noah’s children and their spouses who came from families from all over the world but since their children have Noah’s blood, they have Adam and Eve’s blood and thus all decedents from them have Adam and Eve’s blood.
Question 3:
Okay. So no fossils exist and we can trace ancestry back to one woman and man. What about the DNA linking us to ape with 98% of our DNA matching theirs?
Answer:
Sorry evolutionists, scientists identified some 40 million differences among the three billion DNA molecules, or nucleotides, in each genome of human and chimp/ape which separates us MASSIVELY from chimps and apes. 40 million differences makes us completely different from chimps and shows we aren’t a higher form of ape and that our DNA do not match theirs. Science has proved itself that we don’t share 98% DNA with apes.
Further more, scientists once said that we share 99% of our DNA with mouses. We know that’s a lie for obvious reasons. Remember evolutionists, science isn’t always right and it makes mistakes.
Question 4:
Okay. So no fossils exist, we can trace our ancestry back to one woman and man and our DNA doesn’t match the ape’s DNA but why do some animals look the same?
Answer:
Animals don’t share the same common ancestors. They share the same creator who created every animal with the same blueprint. There is, however, one discovery that appears to make the evolutionary view of descent from a common ancestor look illogical and flawed. This discovery is that structures that appear homologous often develop under the control of genes that are not homologous. If the structures evolved from the same source, you would expect the same genes to make the structures. The fact that these structures are similar (or homologous) is apparent, but the reason is not because of Darwinian evolution. It is more logical and reasonable to believe in a common Creator rather than a common ancestor.
Question 5:
Okay. So no fossils exist, we can trace our ancestry back to one woman and man and our DNA doesn’t match the ape’s DNA and animals don’t share the same ancestor but how does God exist? I’d still rather believe that we are just random accidents because it makes me feel good about myself.
Answer:
How does God exist? Well let’s look at the human body firstly:
We have the human circulatory system which is a very good example of design. Not only does it function very well but it also shows design and a complex structure that only an intelligent being could creation. Next we have the heart pumping blood throughout the body, the lungs which breath in oxygen and release the oxygen and then we have the human body with two matching eyes/ears/eyebrows/nostrils on each level of each other and then we have the perfect structure of the teeth. That’s no random accident, this would describe random:
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Nothing matches, nothing shows design, nothing shows thought, that’s random and the universe and the human body is nothing like that, the human body and universe show thought. Thought and design CANNOT come from chaos. Logic argues against this. Thought and design all come from an intelligent mind. Think of one explanation where design comes from chaos. You cannot. Bombs do not produce vast cities just as throwing a brick at a wall won’t produce anything that shows order. For atheism to be true, design and order would have to come from chaos which comes from nothing. You wouldn’t attribute a computer to chaos or nothingness, so don’t attribute the butterfly or universe to nothingness, both share the same creator…GOD!
Evolution is just a shield for those that are scared of God and truth. It’s called a theory for a reason.
Symmetry further proves the existence of God because it shows that a force that could see was behind creation. Evolution is an unconscious force that doesn’t think, if it was real, there would be no such thing as symmetry because it can’t see to produce such designs twice just as it can’t smell to give creatures noses. Yes, ask yourself evolutionists, how did creatures evolve noses? Smells cannot be detected by feeling or sight can they? How did animals evolve wings? Did they just start jumping about randomly until they evolved wings one day? How silly to believe such!
The fact that we observe intelligence in animals along with patterns of behavior that appeared passed down from their parents shows that an intelligent mind was behind design. Everything in the universe and on this world is balanced. We observe recycling (life in death) in nature for instance. Balance could not exist unless a mind was behind this universe.
Without an intelligent mind to put everything into order, there would only be chaos and we do NOT observe such in the universe.
Atheism is the belief that the universe came from nothing. So how could nothing place everything into order? How could nothing appoint gravity to hold everything together? How could nothing form the universe into a way in which we could study it and learn about it? How could nothing give us the needed resources to build whatever we want? How could nothing give us all the plants and resources needed to cure illnesses?
Atheism is senseless and don’t take my word for it, even Sir Issac Newton – author of the most influential science book ever – said as much!
Want proof that The Bible is authentic to history? Well, here is a list of some artifacts which support many of the events mentioned in The Bible:
The Black Obelisk of Shalmaneser III, shows the Biblical Jehu, king of Israel. It describes how Jehu brought or sent his tribute in or around 841 BCE.
The Nabonidus Cylinder proves Belshazzar’s existence; Belshazzar was a king of Babylon and he is mentioned in The Book Of Daniel in The Bible. The Nabonidus Cylinder proves Belshazzar did indeed exist. This gives evidence that The Book Of Daniel is historically correct.
The Shishaq Relief is a series of inscriptions recounting pharaoh Shishaq’s invasion of Judah and Israel in 925 BC. When the king of Egypt laid siege to Jerusalem, Rehoboam gave him all of the treasures out of the temple as a tribute. This is recorded here.
Further evidence that The Bible is correct is that Sennacherib’s Prism, details the events of Sennacherib’s campaign against Judah which is mentioned in The Bible as well. Sennacherib’s campaign against Judah
is described in great detail in The Bible. To bring together the biblical account and the records of the Assyrian emperor shows vindication of the Bible as historical fact.
More Artifacts That You Should Research About, Which Prove That The Bible is Historically Correct:
Amarna letters (c. 1300s BC) – correspondence on clay tablets between the Egyptian administration and various Middle East kings petty sub-rulers in Canaan during the New Kingdom.
Arch of Titus – (c. 82 AD) This relief shows spoils from the sack of Jerusalem by the Romans in 70 AD. Depicted are the menorah and trumpets, as well as what might be the Table of Showbread.
Babylonian Chronicles (c. 747 BC – 247 BC) – This deals with Nebuchadnezzar’s siege of Jerusalem, etc. Read the books of Zedekiah and Book of Kings, Book of Jeremiah, Lamentations.
Balaam inscription (c. 840-760 BC) 9th or 8th century BC inscription about the prophet named Balaam from The Book of Numbers.
Bulla of Jehucal – son of Shelemiah, son of Shevi. This person is mentioned in the Book of Jeremiah who thus presumably lived in the late 7th century BC (i.e. at about the same time as Jeremiah).
Cylinder of Cyrus (c. 559 BC-530 BC) – This regards King Cyrus’s treatment of religion, which is significant to the books of Chronicles, Ezra and Nehemiah.
Deluge Tablet – The Epic of Gilgamesh records a Babylonian flood story; this connects to Genesis and gives evidence that it is historically correct.
Bubastis portal – showing a series of inscriptions recounting pharaoh Shishaq’s invasion of Judah and Israel in 925 BC, located outside the Temple of Amun at Karnak.(1 Kings 14:25; 2 Chronicles 12:1-12).
Ipuwer Papyrus (c. 13th century BC) – ancient papyrus manuscript describing Egypt as afflicted by natural disasters and in a state of chaos. Statements such as “the River is blood” can be interpreted as an Egyptian account of the Plagues of Egypt described in the Book of Exodus in the Bible.
Susa remains – Susa is mentioned in the Ketuvim of the Hebrew Bible, mainly in Esther, but also once each in Nehemiah and Daniel. Both Daniel and Nehemiah lived in Susa during the Babylonian captivity of Judah of the 6th century BC. Esther became queen there, and saved the Jews from genocide. A tomb presumed to be that of Daniel is located in the area, known as Shush-Daniel. The tomb is marked by an unusual white, stone cone, which is neither regular nor symmetric.
Taylor Prism – a clay prism inscribed with the annals of the Assyrian king Sennacherib notable for describing his siege of Jerusalem in 701 BC during the reign of king Hezekiah. This event is recorded in several books contained in Bible including Isaiah chapters 33 and 36; 2 Kings 18:17; 2 Chronicles 32:9. This event is also recorded by Herodotus.
These artifacts show The Bible is historically correct. Many ask for outside evidence to prove that events in The Bible were indeed real and here you have them. There are several documents outside of The Bible, agreeing with what The Bible says for these events.
Farewell.
DR;TL
First of all I want to say thank you to Jessica. You have been an inspiration to me and my family. Your recent experiences have been a wonderful example for teaching my children about the importance of standing up for their rights in the face of adversity. Now I am going to address the laundry list of ignorance put forward by GabrielChristos.
@ GabrielChristos,
In response to your first point:
“No such fossils exist. No fossils exist showing the evolutionary process of ape to man…”
Creationists and scientists are speaking an entirely different language it seems when referring to transitional fossils. A transitional fossil is any fossil that displays characteristics of two distinct taxonomic groups. Much of the language creationists throw around about transitional forms or “missing links” is derived from misunderstood or outdated scientific methods. Scientists used to have a very linear concept of evolution evidenced by the very tall, strait tree-like diagrams they often used to show ancestry. Evolution usually doesn’t work that way. Today we know that the more complete a graphic is showing ancestry, the bushier it will be.
So how about the evolutionary “process” of “ape to man”? Before I answer, let me pose an equally silly question. Where is the evidence that sparrows evolved from birds? What’s wrong? Do you not understand the question? Sparrows ARE birds, aren’t they? Yes they are. They possess all the identifying characteristics of the taxonomic group commonly referred to as birds. You may find the next bit of information shocking…human beings ARE apes in the same sense that sparrows are birds. We belong to the super family Hominoidea, more specifically to the family hominidae or great apes. I have bothered to include this information because, based on what I have read from you so far, I sincerely doubt you are aware of this fact. I will not use your display of ignorance on this fact to distract me from your more blatant demonstration of ignorance, that there are no transitional fossils between earlier primates, that you would no doubt classify as apes, and Homo sapiens.
Australopithecus afarensis lived between three and four million years ago, was bipedal, and while its skull was still relatively similar in size and form to a chimpanzee, it was already transitioning to a more human-like dentition, more so than its cousin, Ardipithecus ramidus which had branched off earlier but showed even more “primitive” characteristics like a more arboreal suited foot and more specialized teeth, not to mention smaller brain.
Australopithecus africanus shows continued brain development as well as increasingly more human-like teeth. Body size was also increasing. This was about two to three million years ago. Very similar to Australopithecus africanus was the more recent Homo habilis that lived between one to three million years ago. Habilis had a face becoming much less “ape” like and continued to show progression in tooth development and foot development as well as an increasing brain size. This species also shows an extensive use of tools.
Homo erectus continued the trend by further increasing brain size, skeletal morphology, dentition, tool use, etc. Early Pleistocene Homo sapiens continued the trend further and by the late Pleistocene were almost identical to Homo sapiens sapiens of today. Every single species listed here is a transitional fossil and has been known to science for quite some time. There are additional species and subspecies between each of those listed above. Are there empty spaces between each of them? Of course and when those get filled there will be twice as many empty spaces between those. That doesn’t change the fact that every single one of them is a transitional fossil. Something that you claim emphatically doesn’t exist.
@ GabrielChristos
“no fossils exist showing the evolutionary process of dinosaur to mammal…”
I agree with you here. Mammals didn’t evolve from dinosaurs.
“and no fossils exist showing the evolutionary process of dinosaur to bird (yes, there is the dinosaur bird – Archaeopteryx – but that’s exactly what it is – a dinosaur bird and nothing more which is why there are no fossils showing the evolutionary process of it.).”
I can just as easily list multiple transitional fossils from therapod dinosaurs to birds, fish to tetrapods, amphibians to reptiles, reptiles to mammals, terrestrial mammals to whales and so on. These fossils and exact copies of them fill museums the world over. At this point it seems too much like beating a dead horse. If I have to I will list them but for now let’s deal with your next bit of deception.
“Darwin himself stated that the biggest argument against his theory would be a lack of transitional fossils which he predicted would be found very shortly. More than a century later and we are still lacking transitional fossils because they don’t exist. If evolution were true, MILLIONS of transitional fossils would exist but none do.”
Darwin said no such thing. This is what Darwin said in his book On the Origin of Species:
“Why then is not every geological formation and every stratum full of such intermediate links? Geology assuredly does not reveal any such finely graduated organic chain; and this, perhaps, is the most obvious and gravest objection which can be urged against my theory. The explanation lies, as I believe, in the extreme imperfection of the geological record.”
Darwin was acknowledging an incomplete fossil record, something that has been added to significantly since he wrote those words and is being added to as we speak.
In Darwin’s day there was little understanding of what circumstances were required for fossilization to occur. When compared to the number of living things that have existed on earth, the number of them that will be represented in the fossil record should be very small. This is expected by geologists and paleontologists. Most paleontologists will tell you that we are lucky to have as many fossils as we do. Either way it has no bearing whatsoever on the truth or falsehood of evolution. Once again, however, the evidence is squarely against you on this point as well. Millions of transitional fossils do exist and we happen to have found many thousands of them.
@ GabrielChristos
Your questions 2-4 represent such a profound ignorance of genetics and evolutionary theory that they don’t even warrant a response. This coupled with the fact that you seem to be referencing an actual, literal global flood/ark story makes me reluctant to address it. Simply put, I don’t know how to respond without sounding like I am ridiculing you. I would like to avoid that if possible. You cannot use the science of genetics to back up your claims about Adam and Eve in one sentence then in the next sentence reject the same science because it disputes your claims about Adam and Eve. The DNA of an organism is such a good indicator of evolutionary ancestry that we can estimate, based on genes, the aproximate time period that certain evolutionary changes occurred and then go digging in strata from that geological time to find transitional fossils. And we find them.
One thing I will bother to address is the common straw man GabrielChristos resorted to in question five.
“I’d still rather believe that we are just random accidents because it makes me feel good about myself.”
You make here the common error of equating evolution with randomness. I am going to take your random series of characters and apply a simple criteria of selection. I am not rearranging anything. Just selecting out letters that interfere with words being formed. This doesn’t look quite so random. Now if I wanted to apply different criteria I could get even less random, more coherent combinations.
shims
go
moms fog
rods
disk
joked
mole
dj
dud
wow
fork
pop
dodo
That is what evolution does. It selects from a sampling of random changes in genetic code. If a change contributes to the survival of a given gene it is preserved. If doesn’t it is either discared or ignored. It does this with no intelligence necessary. Unlike the limitations I placed on my manipulations of your characters, natural selection can duplicate genes. It can rearrange them. It can fuse them. All sorts of things. Only the raw materials of evolution are random. The process is not. It was, in fact, the fusion of two common “ape” chromosomes that caused the difference in the chromosome count between humans and the other great apes. The theory of evolution was used to predict this fusion in great detail before the genetics confirmed these suspicions.
None of your claims of a requisite intelligence are supported by evidence. The second law of thermodynamics only requires entropy (read chaos) to increase in a closed system and even then it is only total entropy. The earth is not, nor has it ever been, a closed system. All the data suggests that the universe as a whole is winding down, increasing total entropy. Symmetry is a common property of physical laws and symmetry is a predictable property of evolved biological systems. No guiding intelligence necessary.
GabrielChristos then said:
“Atheism is the belief that the universe came from nothing…”
“Atheism is senseless and don’t take my word for it, even Sir Issac Newton – author of the most influential science book ever – said as much!”
Atheism is not the belief that the universe came from nothing. There are atheists that believe the universe was always here in some form. There are atheists that accept an oscillating universe. There are some that think it originated from a multiverse, other universes colliding and so on. Some atheists have no idea or opinion about where the universe came from. All that is required to be an atheist is that you don’t accept the existence of a god or gods. That’s it. You don’t get to redefine words to make an argument.
And for the record Newton was also an alchemist who believed he could turn lead into gold. I wouldn’t invoke him as an authority on any subject other than Newtonian physics if I were you.
As to Gabriel’s list of biblical proofs, citing the historically accurate portions of a piece of historical fiction in no way confirms the accuracy of the rest of the work. And that is assuming that the given list is accurate in its conclusions. I was going to draw some amusing analogies with “Gone With the Wind” but I’m tired. This point seems so obvious that I hardly think it’s necessary anyway.
Jessica, I just want to say THANK YOU!!!! You are paving the road for those of us who don’t want to sing religious music in public school, say the prayers, and observe religious policy. Thank you for giving me the courage to stand up for my rights.
You are a wonderful person, and I am behind you 110%
Emma, StuCo member, Choir President, and Atheist.
Choir president?
How do you avoid doing the “Messiah”?
I am a Christian, hold my beliefs and still agree with you about the posting of prayer in your school.
Hating me, calling me names or deciding I am judgmental because of my faith lowers the level of discourse and paints you in the same fundamentalist light as the crazies that you are fighting.
Don’t sink to their level. When you are right you don’t have to.
Ok, I don’t know where to start, but let me say that Jess, you are my hero. I’m 15 and in highschool, and was raised as a Christian, but when I turned about 12, i started to think for myself and really questioned the beliefs that were indoctrinated in me. I came to the conclusion that there was no god, despite my entire family being religious, including my 4 siblings. I thought I was alone and I was not open with my atheism because I didn’t know how people would react since it seems like EVERYONE believes in a god. And its like the majority of people in the world in this ‘modern’ society buys that religious garbage. But i’ve been reading about your situation with the school prayer and how lots of people hated you for it and ‘peaceful Christians’ gave you so much crap about it. I mean the damn thing was illegal and they still defended it like a Christian Jihad or something. But what really impressed me is how you responded to Tom & Michael (some real ass holes btw) with how slavery and womens’ inequality was accepted back in the day. PS. I requested to join your facebook group, I watched the videos and have concluded that Chris Young is a nutcase (who gets carried away by six cops XD), and that other commenter (Gabriel Christo) has some serious issues
Scroll down and enjoy my song link.
( Edwords–Jan. 25)
95 percent? Too bad only like 15% of people in New England go to church.
The vast majority of people in Mass. do not believe in “God”
Which facebook thread was this on?
Posthumous salute to Jessica by the late Blossom Dearie.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ig2daWp-Pls
I just read your story in the NY Times. I commend you for taking a strong and valiant stance on this issue. As an agnostic/atheist/hater of all organized religion, I am proud that you’re doing this. It drives weird nutsos like GabrielChristos up the wall when other people contravene the socially accepted fairy tales of one particular society. In large portions of this society, at least, it is the notion of Jesus Christ as savior, and the Bible and God as the last word on matters both moral and ethical (and even scientific, which truly baffles me). Fighting to keep that pablum out of the public square–the last barrier I believe is ridding the U.S. currency of that hated “In God We Trust” quote–is quite commendable.
Myself, I came to the realization that there was no God when I was 13 and I read about the French Revolution in school. To discover that churches could be burned and defiled all for the quest for liberty of conscience really did it for me. That and the continuing horrors that humans inflict on each other, like the Holocaust. Science just hit the nail on the coffin–there was a truth, and it is ordered chaos ruled by more or less random interactions of quarks and neutrinos, leading to atoms, molecules, chemical interactions, human brains and human consciousness. That is it. There is no fluffy heaven or fearsome hell. There is just ordered complexity. God is dead.
But thinking people like ourselves also tend to get intoxicated with our own rigid notions–that we are the holders of truth and that all others who think differently from ourselves are somehow deficient and not worthy of credibility. Sounds familiar, huh? That is just falling into the same trap of smugness that encases the Bible-thumpers who persecute you. To compare people of faith to children, and seeing yourself as someone who needs to “protect” these children from themselves, as you did in your last quote in the New York Times article, is not good. Despite my deep misgivings of religion, I am also a live and let live type of guy. What people do in their own private spheres and what they put into their own heads is none of my damn business. These thinking adults are not children. They just require different coping mechanisms to deal with the trial and tribulations of ordinary life and your attacking these coping mechanisms. Some feel threatened by this.
As I have grown older, I have mellowed in my own self-righteousness. Religion does have a place in society. It’s not to validate intolerance and persecution. It’s not impose your vision on others–like the schools board is doing with that silly banner at your high school. It is to provide psychological salve for those people who require it. These fairy tales have a massive value–it allows lots of people to skirt existential crises every single time they suffer a major loss–the death of a loved one or unexpected unemployment, for example. I know you’re too young to realize this, but life can be extremely difficult at times. And having a psychological ballast to keep you afloat is mighty important. I have learned to cope through these crises by adopting the effluvium of religious practice–meditation, yoga, etc.–and ditching all the encrustations of lies that accompany them. Yoga, especially, can be very helpful. It was when I started to practice that I realized the value of religion, and why so many people cling to it so mightily. I started to understand why people believe so fiercely in these fairy tales. I still can’t swallow the sheer stupidity of a lot these fairy tales, but I have accommodated their existence.
I end by saying that it’s a very complex balance that one has to strike between non-believing and tolerating these fairy tales and the people who believe in them. It’s not black and white. If you go the black and white route, you will become just as narrow-minded and intolerant as those who seek to silence you. Let us not forget that the Soviet Union was militantly atheist, and its government caused as much harm as the most bloodthirsty church. Moderation is key, and living in this great country of ours, where atheist and believer can live as neighbors and in peace, respecting the majesty of the law in all its secular glory, is our goal.
In any case, these are my two cents. I wish you luck in your pursuit. You make us all non-believers proud!
Jessica –
You should be so proud of yourself! I wish I had been half as thoughtful, brave and determined as you are when I was your age. Good for you for taking a stand that you believe in!
You realize that writing that is being judgmental, right? PEOPLE are judgmental, and it’s wrong. Saying all people in a particular group are one thing is making a nasty judgment call. Just thought I might point that out.
Also, I’m a Christian (Roman Catholic, to be exact.), and I quite like everyone I meet.
Food for thought,
Julie
Lots of love from Amman/ Jordan
Free thinking will always be apposed by ignorants
I just want to thank you for what you are doing, Jessica. I went to a private Christian high school and I remember feeling exactly as you do – surrounded by idiots who believe what they are told and are mean to people who can think for themselves. Keep up the good fight.
As a Christian, it makes me sad that the world sees Christians as hateful, ignorant, judgemental and mean because of people like Tom and Michael. The majority of Christians, would not respond in this way. A true Christian will speak with love and with kindness. I do respect your stand and willingness to fight for what you believe. I won’t say that I like what your stance is or agree with it. But I’m certainly not going to attack you, judge you or force my beliefs on you. I would ask that you consider, the people that are responding with hate and name calling, are not representative of Christians in general.
Christians, I ask that you consider the name you call yourselves and what that represents. If you want to use that name, then do so with respect to Christ and His requirements of us.
All of us are going to die. At some point, our lives will end. And what we do with our life now, will dictate what happens at the end.
For those that don’t believe in God and the end is just that, the end, then so be it. You will discover at that end if you were right or wrong. For those of us that do believe in God, we will discover if we were right or wrong. Until then, we all need to co-exist on this planet with kindness and love.
You’re right, all Christians are awful, judgmental snobs who love to mock people and are all idiots…
Try harder.
You can’t judge a whole group based on a few peoples’ ignorance.
By even making that comment your making yourself look like a judgemental snob
Hello,
I just wanted to say that i do find that many religious people are insensitive and belligerent in their beliefs and attack people that do not believe as they do. There are, however, religious people that are willing to hear you out, and while they may not agree with you they will respect your beliefs and they will not resort to insults. I know this because my mother and many of the members of my mom’s family are religious, but i have never gotten into a shouting match with any of them because they respect the fact that my brother and i are atheists. Despite the fact that the insulting religious people are the most prominent, be aware that not everyone in any group is the same. Just as there are some atheists who will resort to insults, so there are religious people who will respect your beliefs and actually agree with you on the separation of church and state.
Blake
Big props to Jessica for having such courage. Had I been able to develop my convictions and fortitude at such an early age as her, I’d be much further along in my own life’s evolution toward an ideal success. I have to give even more kudos to Toby Cooper and his destroying the ignorant ramblings of GabrielChristos. His quasi-intellectual views against evolution are only good because people like Toby can respond with ACTUAL scientific evidence and then people like me can become even more educated. Had it not been for Gabriel twisting science around for his own purposes (as I’m sure he does with his own religion) I wouldn’t have just expanded my knowledge from readying Toby’s rebuttal.
Hey just wanted to say I’m sorry for all those Christians out there who gave you shit I’m Christian and if they were really Christian they would see that making threats at you is not the way to handle things I’m glad your expressing your feelings and making yourself heard but please don’t judge all Christians by those who make dumb and hurtful comments I’m saddened about the whole tree thing but still if it’s whats fair than by all means holiday tree it is those Christians who trash talk should be ashamed they are acting like children and they learn sooner or later but again please don’t take their stupidity and label all Christians stupid thank you and by all means do what you have to do to make things fair so all people can be happy
Hi Josiah,
I, personally, appreciate that you are not being the typical christian who attacks Jessica and anyone who agrees with her. There are, however, a couple of things i wanted to say in response to what you have posted.
The first is a minor point, please try to include proper grammar and punctuation in your posts, especially when using long sentences. It is sometimes difficult to determine what you actually mean to say when there is supposed to be a comma where there isn’t. Please do not take this as a personal attack of any kind, it is simply a request to make reading future posts easier.
The second point i wanted to raise is, please do not tell us that those christians that attack Jessica are not real christians and should be ashamed of themselves. Please tell them not to attack Jessica, or set a different example by simply stating your opinion without personal attacks while mentioning that you are christian to show an example of a christian that is not attacking, but rather discussing.
Blake
Blake – I strongly suspect that Josiah is really an agnostic having a laugh.
Ken, I generally take what people say at face value. While Josiah may, indeed, not be a christian, I have no way to tell that except through what he/she says. Since Josiah says he/she is a christian, i will assume the Josiah is a christian until i see some evidence to the contrary.
I also find it odd that when someone claims to be of the same religion but says things that other people from the same religion disagree with, those people say that person is not actually of their religion. I have seen this in many different places on this site, not just here.
Blake