Jessica Ahlquist

815 Comments »

815 Responses

1. on June 7, 2011 at 12:01 am | Reply Paul Ruggeri

   “i thought they said it better than i could”

   How sad for him that he lacks a basic ability to express himself.

   
   
   • on January 13, 2012 at 2:41 pm | Reply GabrielChristos

     Christian love? Who gives a damn? You atheists aren’t perfect and Hitler and Stalin are proof of that and before one of you poor fools comes and says that Hitler was atheist, I suggest you read The Hitler Table Talk where he attacks Christianity YEARS after praising it. Evidently, he has converted to atheism.

     http://atheismandevolutiondisproven.blogspot.com/

     I created this blog in reply to some girl who got prayer banned from her school. She then started boasting on Twitter about how awesome she, atheism and her evolution was. This blog not only humiliates and destroys atheism but it also debunks evolution and proves that The Bible has outside sources which back it.

     Let us begin with debunking the evolution theory:

     Question 1:

     Are there any fossils showing the evolutionary process of ape to man?

     Answer:

     No. No such fossils exist. No fossils exist showing the evolutionary process of ape to man, no fossils exist showing the evolutionary process of dinosaur to mammal and no fossils exist showing the evolutionary process of dinosaur to bird (yes, there is the dinosaur bird – Archaeopteryx – but that’s exactly what it is – a dinosaur bird and nothing more which is why there are no fossils showing the evolutionary process of it.).

     Darwin himself stated that the biggest argument against his theory would be a lack of transitional fossils which he predicted would be found very shortly. More than a century later and we are still lacking transitional fossils because they don’t exist. If evolution were true, MILLIONS of transitional fossils would exist but none do.

     Question 2:

     Okay. So no fossils exist but evidence has shown that we have evolved from groups of apes from all around the world.

     Answer:

     Nope! Eve is the ancestor of all female humans and science even supports this. Science claims that all females can trace their ancestry back to one woman. Where science has got it wrong is where they claim Eve was not the first woman and they call her Mitochondrial Eve. Science says that all women can trace their ancestry back to her but that she didn’t exist at the same time as Y-Chromosome Adam whom all males can trace their ancestry back to. It seems as though science is now saying that it’s possible that we can all trace ancestry back to one man and one woman and this supports the Genesis account of the origin of mankind. Is it a coincidence that The Bible says that everyone can track their ancestors back to Adam and Eve (one woman and man) and now science almost says the same? No, it’s not a coincidence. Science has got it slightly wrong but it’s now supporting what skeptics had previously thought impossible.

     No, mankind never came from simply Adam and Eve but THEY were the first humans created. Other humans were created which is why Cain speaks about them when he is exiled from the land of his parents after his kills his brother. He tells God that “others might try to kill him” and God puts a curse on him to prevent this.

     The reason why everyone can trace ancestry back to Adam and Eve is because everyone shares ancestry with Noah. Every other human died out during the flood (which all cultures and beliefs speak of) save for Noah’s children and their spouses who came from families from all over the world but since their children have Noah’s blood, they have Adam and Eve’s blood and thus all decedents from them have Adam and Eve’s blood.

     Question 3:

     Okay. So no fossils exist and we can trace ancestry back to one woman and man. What about the DNA linking us to ape with 98% of our DNA matching theirs?

     Answer:

     Sorry evolutionists, scientists identified some 40 million differences among the three billion DNA molecules, or nucleotides, in each genome of human and chimp/ape which separates us MASSIVELY from chimps and apes. 40 million differences makes us completely different from chimps and shows we aren’t a higher form of ape and that our DNA do not match theirs. Science has proved itself that we don’t share 98% DNA with apes.

     Further more, scientists once said that we share 99% of our DNA with mouses. We know that’s a lie for obvious reasons. Remember evolutionists, science isn’t always right and it makes mistakes.

     Question 4:

     Okay. So no fossils exist, we can trace our ancestry back to one woman and man and our DNA doesn’t match the ape’s DNA but why do some animals look the same?

     Answer:

     Animals don’t share the same common ancestors. They share the same creator who created every animal with the same blueprint. There is, however, one discovery that appears to make the evolutionary view of descent from a common ancestor look illogical and flawed. This discovery is that structures that appear homologous often develop under the control of genes that are not homologous. If the structures evolved from the same source, you would expect the same genes to make the structures. The fact that these structures are similar (or homologous) is apparent, but the reason is not because of Darwinian evolution. It is more logical and reasonable to believe in a common Creator rather than a common ancestor.

     Question 5:

     Okay. So no fossils exist, we can trace our ancestry back to one woman and man and our DNA doesn’t match the ape’s DNA and animals don’t share the same ancestor but how does God exist? I’d still rather believe that we are just random accidents because it makes me feel good about myself.

     Answer:

     How does God exist? Well let’s look at the human body firstly:

     We have the human circulatory system which is a very good example of design. Not only does it function very well but it also shows design and a complex structure that only an intelligent being could creation. Next we have the heart pumping blood throughout the body, the lungs which breath in oxygen and release the oxygen and then we have the human body with two matching eyes/ears/eyebrows/nostrils on each level of each other and then we have the perfect structure of the teeth. That’s no random accident, this would describe random:

     shgery8nhiwms,
     gmjeoj
     dfnmjloms,dpfogmmlm,dp.c
     erjndfiods

     jdiojojdpskj
     #dnhj
     wjkio]jowked,lc;x
     emsole-=
     d
     dj
     0ie0ek,;d,sdmks,,s

     wjieudjk93u9d
     jdjdk
     d
     d
     dj
     -o-2

     j0swopw[p

     j0iwsijidj
     kjfojprk0rper
     r
     ee
     wqwpowplq
     wpwwk
     w
     wkw-w0owiool

     oododood

     kjk
     jj
     jh

     Nothing matches, nothing shows design, nothing shows thought, that’s random and the universe and the human body is nothing like that, the human body and universe show thought. Thought and design CANNOT come from chaos. Logic argues against this. Thought and design all come from an intelligent mind. Think of one explanation where design comes from chaos. You cannot. Bombs do not produce vast cities just as throwing a brick at a wall won’t produce anything that shows order. For atheism to be true, design and order would have to come from chaos which comes from nothing. You wouldn’t attribute a computer to chaos or nothingness, so don’t attribute the butterfly or universe to nothingness, both share the same creator…GOD!

     Evolution is just a shield for those that are scared of God and truth. It’s called a theory for a reason.

     Symmetry further proves the existence of God because it shows that a force that could see was behind creation. Evolution is an unconscious force that doesn’t think, if it was real, there would be no such thing as symmetry because it can’t see to produce such designs twice just as it can’t smell to give creatures noses. Yes, ask yourself evolutionists, how did creatures evolve noses? Smells cannot be detected by feeling or sight can they? How did animals evolve wings? Did they just start jumping about randomly until they evolved wings one day? How silly to believe such!

     The fact that we observe intelligence in animals along with patterns of behavior that appeared passed down from their parents shows that an intelligent mind was behind design. Everything in the universe and on this world is balanced. We observe recycling (life in death) in nature for instance. Balance could not exist unless a mind was behind this universe.

     Without an intelligent mind to put everything into order, there would only be chaos and we do NOT observe such in the universe.

     Atheism is the belief that the universe came from nothing. So how could nothing place everything into order? How could nothing appoint gravity to hold everything together? How could nothing form the universe into a way in which we could study it and learn about it? How could nothing give us the needed resources to build whatever we want? How could nothing give us all the plants and resources needed to cure illnesses?

     Atheism is senseless and don’t just take my word for it, even Sir Issac Newton – author of the most influential science book ever – said as much!

     Want proof that The Bible is authentic to history? Well, here is a list of some artifacts which support many of the events mentioned in The Bible:

     The Black Obelisk of Shalmaneser III, shows the Biblical Jehu, king of Israel. It describes how Jehu brought or sent his tribute in or around 841 BCE.

     The Nabonidus Cylinder proves Belshazzar’s existence; Belshazzar was a king of Babylon and he is mentioned in The Book Of Daniel in The Bible. The Nabonidus Cylinder proves Belshazzar did indeed exist. This gives evidence that The Book Of Daniel is historically correct.

     The Shishaq Relief is a series of inscriptions recounting pharaoh Shishaq’s invasion of Judah and Israel in 925 BC. When the king of Egypt laid siege to Jerusalem, Rehoboam gave him all of the treasures out of the temple as a tribute. This is recorded here.

     Further evidence that The Bible is correct is that Sennacherib’s Prism, details the events of Sennacherib’s campaign against Judah which is mentioned in The Bible as well. Sennacherib’s campaign against Judah
     is described in great detail in The Bible. To bring together the biblical account and the records of the Assyrian emperor shows vindication of the Bible as historical fact.

     More Artifacts That You Should Research About, Which Prove That The Bible is Historically Correct:

     Amarna letters (c. 1300s BC) – correspondence on clay tablets between the Egyptian administration and various Middle East kings petty sub-rulers in Canaan during the New Kingdom.

     Arch of Titus – (c. 82 AD) This relief shows spoils from the sack of Jerusalem by the Romans in 70 AD. Depicted are the menorah and trumpets, as well as what might be the Table of Showbread.

     Babylonian Chronicles (c. 747 BC – 247 BC) – This deals with Nebuchadnezzar’s siege of Jerusalem, etc. Read the books of Zedekiah and Book of Kings, Book of Jeremiah, Lamentations.

     Balaam inscription (c. 840-760 BC) 9th or 8th century BC inscription about the prophet named Balaam from The Book of Numbers.

     Bulla of Jehucal – son of Shelemiah, son of Shevi. This person is mentioned in the Book of Jeremiah who thus presumably lived in the late 7th century BC (i.e. at about the same time as Jeremiah).

     Cylinder of Cyrus (c. 559 BC-530 BC) – This regards King Cyrus’s treatment of religion, which is significant to the books of Chronicles, Ezra and Nehemiah.

     Deluge Tablet – The Epic of Gilgamesh records a Babylonian flood story; this connects to Genesis and gives evidence that it is historically correct.

     Bubastis portal – showing a series of inscriptions recounting pharaoh Shishaq’s invasion of Judah and Israel in 925 BC, located outside the Temple of Amun at Karnak.(1 Kings 14:25; 2 Chronicles 12:1-12).

     Ipuwer Papyrus (c. 13th century BC) – ancient papyrus manuscript describing Egypt as afflicted by natural disasters and in a state of chaos. Statements such as “the River is blood” can be interpreted as an Egyptian account of the Plagues of Egypt described in the Book of Exodus in the Bible.

     Susa remains – Susa is mentioned in the Ketuvim of the Hebrew Bible, mainly in Esther, but also once each in Nehemiah and Daniel. Both Daniel and Nehemiah lived in Susa during the Babylonian captivity of Judah of the 6th century BC. Esther became queen there, and saved the Jews from genocide. A tomb presumed to be that of Daniel is located in the area, known as Shush-Daniel. The tomb is marked by an unusual white, stone cone, which is neither regular nor symmetric.

     Taylor Prism – a clay prism inscribed with the annals of the Assyrian king Sennacherib notable for describing his siege of Jerusalem in 701 BC during the reign of king Hezekiah. This event is recorded in several books contained in Bible including Isaiah chapters 33 and 36; 2 Kings 18:17; 2 Chronicles 32:9. This event is also recorded by Herodotus.

     These artifacts show The Bible is historically correct. Many ask for outside evidence to prove that events in The Bible were indeed real and here you have them. Christians don’t follow The Bible due to blind faith, archaeology has proven that many of the events did happen and logic supports the existence of a God who designed this beautiful universe.

     It is an insult to believe that this universe came from nothing. Atheists like to boast about how much they know about science but in reality, they know nothing about science otherwise they wouldn’t be illogical enough to attribute creation to nothing. It’s more logical to believe we were created and design than the theory that we were random accidents. Maybe atheists are happy to believe the universe was a random accident and that life was too and maybe they are happy to believe they came from apes which eat their own excrement but logic argues against their fairy tale theory.

     We were designed and created. God is real. Get over it atheists.

     Goodbye.

     
     
     • on January 13, 2012 at 4:04 pm | Reply Pablo

       once again, you can use Hitler or Stalin as proof Atheism is wrong, that’s disingenuous. First even if Hitler was an atheist, his non-belief wasn’t a cause of his actions, he was just an murderer asshole. Stalin isn’t do what he did in the name of non-belief, he did it for political beliefs and because he was a murderer asshole, their atheism is not a cause-effect for their evilness. In the other hand, in your case “Jesus” was assassinated because of religion beliefs, because he was threatening the Jewish establishment. Then the Crusades were evil acts perpetrated in the name of God and religion, that was their cause-effect. Muslim fundamentalism falls in the same principles, as a matter of fact, the Christian crusaders or the Catholic Inquisition enforcers are no different than Muslim fundamentalist terrorist.

       Please get over yourself, all we ask is for you to keep your religion to yourself. If it’s not a private school, then religion should have no place for any of your dogma, that’s why there’s Christian, Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, Mormon and even fucking Scientology school where you can send your kids to.

       
       
       • on January 29, 2012 at 3:04 am | Reply Krissy

         Actually.. I find this interesting.
         Why is it that when Atheists want to prove that Christians are ALL hateful, ignorant, and evil they use only the group of people who fits into that category, but when Christians use examples of atheists both in the past and now to show how ATHEIST can be just a cruel, hateful, and bigoted, we’re suddenly just reaching?

         Anyway: I think all people should be allowed to say what they want about religion. no matter what religion.

         If Christian’s can’t gift a “school prayer” to their school, then why are Atheist allowed to post blogs and videos and websites dedicated to atheism?

         It’s a hypocritical double standard.
         Why can’t we call just believe what we want and be peaceful?

         This entire mess seems to just be one person who wanted to silence the voice of other people because she didn’t agree with them.

         I think that the original writer had the right to post up that prayer, just like an atheist WOULD have a right to create an atheist club in their school and put posters up too.
         But it’s sad when people who to take away somebody else’s freedom of speech out of selfishness.

         
         
         • on January 29, 2012 at 6:23 am Rob

           “If Christian’s can’t gift a “school prayer” to their school, then why are Atheist allowed to post blogs and videos and websites dedicated to atheism?”

           Krissy,
           The internet is free in that anyone can post whatever they want, such as the ridiculous amount of christian websites. The school is a government funded institution meaning it falls under the constitution which states they cannot promote any religion. Since the prayer banner is christian it is illegal to be present within the school. Also even if an atheist gifted the banner it would still be illegal.

           
           
         • on February 9, 2012 at 6:41 pm Jerry

           Jessica Ahlquist…. All we can do is feel sorry for you. If your parents aren’t ashamed of you, I feel sorry for them as well. God Bless you.

           
           
     • on January 14, 2012 at 12:02 am | Reply Kevin

       Allow me to retort.

       Your first question reads “Are there any fossils showing the evolutionary process of ape to man?”

       First, I raise an objection to the question as stated. Under modern evolutionary theory, apes and humans would have evolved from a species, but humans would not have evolved from modern apes. With that clarified, there are fossils of Homo erectus, Homo neanderthalensis, Homo heidelbergensis, and other species from different time periods which paint a distinct picture in favor of evolution. Second, not that many fossils of large species exist in the first place because of the extremely specific circumstances in which they are preserved.

       Your second ‘question’ is “Okay. So no fossils exist but evidence has shown that we have evolved from groups of apes from all around the world.”

       First, this should probably be a question instead of a statement. Second, the statement above isn’t a theory supported by evolution. Third, the theory of chromosomal Adam and mitochondrial Eve is a reason why evolution is true. If genetic mutations (evolution) do not take place and everyone had the same common original ancestors, it’s impossible to have different races or the enormous variety of current genetic conditions.

       The third question is the following: “Okay. So no fossils exist and we can trace ancestry back to one woman and man. What about the DNA linking us to ape with 98% of our DNA matching theirs?”

       The current percentage similarity between modern man and chimpanzees is approximately 95% after accounting for things knowingly absent from the older number. This is still a good reason to suggest a common ancestor further back than previously thought.

       The fourth answer simply misrepresents evolution. Evolution is based on genetic mutation; it’s extremely unlikely that the same gene mutated from one ancestor species to two current species identically. If same parts of the genome mutated between species every time, that would be substantial evidence to suggest a divine designer since it would indicate a higher power of order than what currently exists.

       The fifth answer suffers from a severe case of confirmation bias. Facial and body hair for men serves no function on a modern man but would have in past iterations within the genus (to keep warm). For men as well, mammary glands serve no purpose while in other species under our genus men had mammary glands that produced milk. Additionally evolution provides a perfectly valid explanation for our current advantages. Species gain a wide variety of genetic mutations. The ones that provide the species with an advantage survive. Those disadvantaged die off. Second, those characters weren’t random. That’s easy enough to tell if you look at a keyboard, but unless it’s randomly generated, don’t claim it is.

       Next, you claim that there must be some design because the advantages we currently have aren’t possible in randomness. First, the universe is bigger than it is possible to understand. To look around and claim that the area you are in must have been designed ignores the 99.9999999999999999999999999% of absolute nonsense elsewhere. Statistically speaking, if an infinite number of monkeys have infinite time to write on a typewriter randomly, one is guaranteed to reproduce Shakespeare. This doesn’t mean that there was some intelligent design behind Shakespeare; merely that the vastness of randomness is great.

       You also state “Evolution is just a shield for those that are scared of God and truth. It’s called a theory for a reason.” This is plainly ignorant. The Catholic Church has stated that evolution is not competitive with Catholicism.

       Next you mention symmetry. Humans are asymmetric. This can easily be demonstrated if you take a picture of half your face and use software to mirror image it. Trust me, you’ll look substantially different if you do this. Additionally modern understanding of the universe is that it is asymmetric. Finally on this point, balance and cycles aren’t proof that God exists. “Things are; therefore God” ignores the possibility that other systems without the cycles or balance in nature could exist.

       Next you ask how animals evolved wings. It didn’t happen the way you described, but that also isn’t evolution. Evolution doesn’t claim that an organism can jump to get it’s wings. It would be genetic variance from a species that already had traits assisting flight.

       Next you claim animals have intelligence; it means they must have been designed. If animals were designed for human purposes (milk, meat, etc.) a designer would make them dumber to be more easily exploited, not smarter. Intelligence assists in a species survival, which means it can pass on traits to it’s offspring.

       The last paragraph before all of the Biblical listings relies on an inverted burden of proof. To provide an absurdist analogy: How can you proof Zeus did not create the world as it exists today? How do you know unicorns do not fly around in only places people and their machinations cannot observe? Demonstrate thoroughly that Helios does not carry the sun up every day. NONE of these cases can be proven, yet I doubt you believe in Zeus, Unicorns, and Helios. The problem lies in the question, not those stuck with the impossible burden.

       For all of the

       
       
     • on January 14, 2012 at 12:42 am | Reply Toby Cooper

       Wow. It seems I just spent a great deal of time responding to Gabriel’s excrement on an older version of this thread. I didn’t find this one until afterward. Oh well.

       
       
     • on January 16, 2012 at 3:07 pm | Reply Sinjin Smythe

       “I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so.”
       (Adolf Hitler / 1889-1945)

       
       
     • on January 16, 2012 at 11:06 pm | Reply Rafael Borges

       “Atheism is the belief that the universe came from nothing.”

       Ahem… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McAeQiLmEYU

       
       
     • on January 17, 2012 at 12:41 pm | Reply ManhattanMC

       Richard Carrier has shown that Hitler’s disparaging remarks about christianity are not in the original german manuscripts of ‘Table Talk’-only in the (mis)-translations. They are clearly interpolations by Francois Genoud. There are no other quotes from any other speech or manuscript that indicate Hitler opposed christianity-although he did have his own ‘aryan’ re-make of it.

       Read:

       “Hitler’s Table Talk: Troubling Finds.” German Studies Review 26.3 (October 2003)

       Hitler was a christian-a roman catholic creationist, as is clear if you have read ‘Main Kampf’-and was never ex-communicated and never renouced his religion.
       His anti-semtism and horrendous acts against the jews were a direct outgrowth of centuries of christian anti-semitism that began in the 2nd century.
       Martin Luther’s 7 point plan is virtually identical to Hitler’s ‘final solution’.

       http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/messianic_judaism/115985

       As to the rest of your screed, it reads as if copied from a creobot site or Ken Hamm tract.
       Kevin refutes it well below. Learn to research such claims and to think for yourself.

       I would only add that the existence of Kansas does not confirm the truth of “The Wizard of Oz’-nor do any of your supposed biblical archeological discoveries say anything more than the primitives who wrote the old testament new a few vague things about history.

       I would also say that even if the evidence you cite proved there was a ‘god’ you have no way to prove that ‘god’ isn’t any of the thousands of other ‘gods’ humans have created and described in thousands of other ‘holy books’.

       If any one needs to ‘get over it’-it’s you.

       
       
     • on January 18, 2012 at 2:49 pm | Reply Jamal

       I stopped once you start quoting the bible…

       
       
     • on January 19, 2012 at 10:54 am | Reply Carina

       OMW I almost vomited in my mouth trying to get through Gabriel’s comment/thesis.

       Jessica – excellent job on remaining calm through all of this.

       
       
     • on January 23, 2012 at 7:38 pm | Reply Coggles

       Couldn’t help but notice that, in your 8th line of random text, you’ve got the word “sole”. I found this highly amusing as it ironically demonstrates how order and meaning can, occasionally, come from random chaos.

       You also mention the perfect design of our teeth, the circulatory system and the respiration system, but fail you mention the incredibly stupid design of eating, drinking and breathing through the same hole. Stop and take notice of how divine you feel next time you choke on your own spit or have to have a wisdom tooth pulled.

       
       
     • on January 28, 2012 at 1:52 pm | Reply Death Metal 2000

       Wow you’re stupid, you do realize Adolf Hitler and Stalin where both christians? And that the christian church supported both of them? Please just stop existing!

       
       
     • on January 29, 2012 at 10:35 am | Reply Kyle

       Oh wow, where to begin. You try so hard to link history to the Bible, even at the biggest stretch. I’ve said this in other posts, I’m a Polytheist, I worship the Gods of Gaul and Rome. Now that I have explained that, the Aeneid mentions the city of Troy, which according to archaeology most likely existed, you don’t see me sitting there saying that the Aeneid and other holy texts from Rome are 100% infallible when taken literally.

       A lot of the things you point out from the Tanakh is easily explained even by the Jews when they say that the entirety of thew Tanakh is not all mythology, but also history, even if myth entwines with it. Agreed history doesn’t mean that the entirety of the Tanakh is infallible when taken literally. Look at Kabbalah, here the Torah has to be read as if it was a long metaphor. Also, the Book of Deuteronomy says that bats are birds, are you honestly saying that this is true as well?

       My science knowledge isn’t the strongest, but I, unlike quite a lot of people, would rather read a bunch of tough books and papers than one book that easily claims that it has all the answers, because even if I get the wrong answers, at least I made the attempt to find truth. Besides, pagans like me, we’re not people of the book, but people of the library.

       And P.S., in your random letters section, trying to prove that order cannot come from chaos, the word sole appears, and also you start a pattern of o’s and d’s. Discordia trolls you I see lol.

       
       
   • on January 13, 2012 at 3:36 pm | Reply Hines

     F**k off. I could care less if you practiced your religion however you damn well please. You piss people off when you try to shove it up in everyones faces. Why can’t you think that god sparked life and then let it evolve into what it is today?

     At least you aren’t a member of the Westboro Baptist Church, I’ll give you that much.

     
     
     • on January 15, 2012 at 10:06 pm | Reply Sabby

       “F**k off. I could care less if you practiced your religion however you damn well please”

       Atheism is not a Religion. Its a lack thereof.

       ‘You piss people off when you try to shove it up in everyones faces.”

       …just like a banner opposing her own views is shoving it in her face, and is also in violation of the law? Great logic you have the champ. I’m urged to start a slow clap. Please, please, tell me you understand the irony here? Of course not.

       “Why can’t you think that god sparked life and then let it evolve into what it is today?”

       translation: WHY CAN’T YOU THINK LIKE ME? GET HER BECAUSE SHE’S DIFFERENT EVERYONE.

       
       
       • on January 22, 2012 at 12:19 am | Reply Sadie

         I may be misinterpreting what “Hines” said, but it seemed to me that the he was addressing the “gabriel” fellow. :/

         
         
   • on January 13, 2012 at 4:35 pm | Reply Nikkkii

     On this website this young girl bashes Christians, and also talks about religious freedom and how she is trying to displays it. I do not believe she is displaying it, instead she is defying it. If she truly was representing religious freedom, then she would not be bashing Christians, and she would not have taken the religious freedom from the students at West as well as the people of Cranston. As a student, I believe that the banner should stay up. It has been around since the school was made. It should be up to the students at West to vote on if the banner should be up or not. Jessica came to our school, sued, and is leaving. I do not believe that is right. I understand that is was offensive to her, but taking down the banner would be offensive to all the students at West, as well as millions of people around the world. If she is no longer going to the school she no longer has to see it, so I do not believe it should be taken down. She is only thinking of herself in this case and is not taking other peoples thoughts on the into consideration. Cranston West is a very diverse group, there are people who believed in god, and people who do not. There are Muslims, Catholics, Atheists, Jewish all at our school and they are pro-banner. It is not about being against those who do not believe in our beliefs, this is about taking something away that no one has a problem with except one person. We day the pledge of allegiance in the morning…Under God. In God We Trust is on the dollar bill. The First Amendment gives us our right to speak freely. She is trying to stand up for that I understand, but I and other students feel that by taking down the banner she is taking away our freedom of speech. We do not say the prayer every day and it is not poined out or force upon students. Therefore it is not harming anybody. If someone does not agree with it, they do not have to look upon it. It should be left alone.

     
     
     • on January 13, 2012 at 7:38 pm | Reply Damon

       Jessica is not bashing Christians because they are Christians; she is underlining the hypocrisy of the hate she has received from her peers who happen to “practice” christianity–a religion that champions acceptance and respect. In spite of all the criticism, she has remained cordial and very much mature.

       I do not believe you could possibly speak for all the students–as well as all the future students at West–when you say the banner will only be offensive to her. Even if the majority of the students were in favor of the banner, their decision is invalid because the bottom line is that the school is a public school and thereby funded by the government. By endorsing a religious prayer, they are in a direct violation of separation of church and state.

       In addition, the students’ right to freedom of speech is in no way violated, as the students still have the right to pronounce their religion to his/her heart’s content. I think this is where you are misunderstanding: the absence of the prayer banner does not equate to the presence of pro-atheist agenda. I applaud Jessica Alhquist for not looking the other way, and for voicing an issue that is in clear violation of the laws of a nation founded on freedom and secularism. I wish all my peers could be as open-minded and as intelligent as she.

       
       
     • on January 17, 2012 at 3:08 pm | Reply Amii Lockhart

       You’re thinking too small when you say only one person had a problem with that banner. I have a problem with every single infraction of the Constitution. I’m so grateful to Jessica Ahlquist for finding this one and doing something about it despite all the hate and threats directed at her.

       And you know as well as I do that all the hate and threats she has received serves the purpose of keeping others from openly supporting her.

       This whole spectacle is going to be a long and shameful blight on Cranston, not because of Ms. Ahlquist, but because of the witchhunt carried out by the religious.

       
       
     • on January 18, 2012 at 6:41 pm | Reply Evan

       You are an idiot, you don’t understand your own religion. Especially not other religions or the lack thereof. If your name is any clue, all of christianity is lost to ignorance. No, christianity should not even be capitalized.

       
       
2. on June 7, 2011 at 12:05 am | Reply Paul Ruggeri

   “and i hope you know that no1 will pay you reparations in money that says “in God we trust on it”…”

   Unless it’s paid in check, money order, PayPal or direct deposit…

   
   
3. on June 7, 2011 at 2:12 am | Reply Mike Clemens

   Sigh. Unfortunately you’re going to be getting a lot of this.

   After a while it’s going to start getting on your nerves. But I have a feeling when that happens, you’ll choose certain battles and ignore the rest.

   You’re a fine critical thinker, and present your points solidly and politely.

   I hope you’re considering a career in writing.

   MikeC

   
   
4. on June 7, 2011 at 2:23 am | Reply Mike Clemens

   Update: having just heard The Non Prophets show you were on, I’d say law would be a great choice too.

   
   
5. on June 10, 2011 at 12:04 am | Reply Fin

   Congratulations on doing something I wish I had the nerve to do when I was 15. I was raised within a christian, home-schooling community, and the arguments that Tom is using are the ones I grew up with. I can only imagine how frustrating it would have been for my atheist friends at the time to deal with me.

   Good luck.

   
   
6. on June 10, 2011 at 11:57 pm | Reply matt

   “David Look up zeitgeist movie watch the first one and watch the first part. Theres a lot of info on stars relating to religion.”

   ….he had me up until that point

   zeitgeist for all of those of you who are not aware, makes many demonstrably wrong claims about religion, the federal reserve, 9/11, the list goes on.

   but more power to you Jessica….

   you’re doing the lord’s work

   
   
7. on June 15, 2011 at 10:14 pm | Reply DHB

   I feel so sorry for people like Tom. Ignorant AND stupid at the same time. That’s a neat trick.

   Thank you so much, Jessica, for standing up. I hope the banner is down before the start of the next school year.

   A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it and the truth is the truth even if no one does.

   
   
8. on August 17, 2011 at 7:20 pm | Reply David Hart

   I’ve just stumbled across your story via Jen McCreight’s blog, and I feel I ought to say: if any creationist offers you a banana … throw a pomegranate right back at them. Those fruit are so inconvenient to get into, the only sort of god who could have designed them would be guilty of first degree douchebaggery.

   
   
   • on October 9, 2011 at 7:06 am | Reply Ben Blanchard

     This is my new favorite anti banana argument!

     
     
   • on January 12, 2012 at 5:09 am | Reply Jeremy

     “The way a banana fits in your hand proves god made this world for us.”

     “Oh yeah, explain a cactus then.”

     
     
   • on April 12, 2012 at 2:48 pm | Reply John

     I personally prefer the Matt Dillahunty response, “It also fits up your ass.”

     
     
9. on September 14, 2011 at 6:04 am | Reply Beth

   Wow, having gone to Cranston West awhile back & graduating in ’99, this whole thing saddens me. You have disgraced your own school & everyone that is there now & was there before you. The banner is simply a saying that was jotted down as a momentum to the school &the students to come wishing them wellness, growth, & basically saying that all the students should be one as a school, & to RESPECT their fellow classmates & teachers. This was not meant as prayer, as it refers to no specific religion at all, and was never said or made said during school. It’s something that most past & present students would like to look at & remember how our school became and how it’s grown. It’s part of the schools history just like the school colors & mascot are. It’s disgraceful too have to read in the newspaper that a student could be so ignorant as to take whatever your problem is with a piece of school history & try & for ce the school to take it down. And when they don’t agree with you, you take it to court! Wasting more of our tax $ when we are so in debt and offending so many people along the way. If you don’t like it then please just walk past it. No one ever asked you or told you that you had to stop & read it. Don’t ruin it for the people who put it up, the past students who cherish it, & the current students who enjoy it. And please stop wasting our tax $ on something so foolish & ignorant. I do not know if you are old enough & pay taxes to realize how much this is hurting our city financially and hurting our already greatly deprived schools of $ they do not even have. I don’t know what your real reason & motivation for this is, hopefully not just to make friends or to get your name in the paper. So I sm asking you to please stop & think for a second what you have done & are doing & to please just let it be. Thank you.

   
   
   • on October 9, 2011 at 2:38 am | Reply Steve

     @Beth

     Again, you obviously know nothing about the Constitution or, for that matter, the situation.

     Religion has no place in a public school. Student portrayed- fine. 1st amendment. But the law clearly states that public schools are forbidden from displaying any sponsored piece that promotes religion in any way/shape/form. The prayer does just that.

     What is sad is that christianity is allowed to take precedence in this world- I’m sorry, but the world would be much better off without religion. Think of the dark ages- think of the decline in technology, advancement and progress that took place. Imagine where we’d be if it weren’t for those years.

     Jessica is 100% right on this. I’ve looked up the law, and for Cranston to not interpret the law and uphold it, is the disgrace- not her actions. And please, please, PLEASE don’t talk about taxes and the city being in debt and all that like you know what is going on- you do realize that 99% of the time when cities go in debt, it is their own fault, right? Not to mention, different budgets may be in debt, not the whole thing. Thirdly and finally, if the city was that worried about it, they wouldn’t be fighting her, they’d just follow the law and get over it.

     “If you don’t like it, just walk past it.” You wouldn’t say the same if a radical Muslim put up a depiction of 9/11, celebrating it. You wouldn’t be saying that to those affected by the Westboro baptist church.

     
     
   • on October 9, 2011 at 4:40 am | Reply Larry

     Wow! Every logical fallacy in one post. Now I have seen everything. I don’t seen much Christianity in this post. Just alot of blind, obedient apologetics. Guilt-trip much? What a waste of oxygen.

     
     
   • on October 9, 2011 at 11:26 am | Reply Macy

     First of all, the Constitution states a separation of church AND state! I live in the south, there are a LOT of religious people here. I’m agnostic. And I believe Jess is correct. The point being made is they need to respect all beliefs and take this down because it’s violating the separation previously mentioned. A school is not privately owned, now if it were a private school then I could see her being wrong…or a religious affiliated school. But a public school? No, ma’am. She’s doing this because her rights are being violated. Who could blame her? If the majority were atheists and there was a “Evolution rocks” wall, the minority religious people would do the same thing! But when an atheist does it, it’s wrong. I don’t understand why non-religious people catch so much flack! It’s intolerant. We tolerate you, so tolerate us!

     
     
   • on October 9, 2011 at 2:35 pm | Reply middle ground

     Beth said: [snip] “And when they don’t agree with you, you take it to court! Wasting more of our tax $ when we are so in debt and offending so many people along the way.” [snip]

     I think you meant, “. . . when they refuse to obey the law, you take it to court.” The school board is wasting your taxes. Jessica gave them the opportunity to avoid court, but they chose to dig in their heels and continue to break the law. You should be complaining to them. They offend me and everyone who values the rights we were given by the Constitution which formed our Republic.

     
     
10. on October 9, 2011 at 2:23 am | Reply Frink

    Fuck off, Beth. Quit being a fascist.

    
    
    • on October 9, 2011 at 2:39 am | Reply Steve

      Our government is fascist. Not her mission.

      
      
      • on October 9, 2011 at 2:40 pm | Reply middle ground

        I’m not sure either of you really knows the definition of fascist.

        
        
        • on March 24, 2012 at 10:55 pm | Reply Cameron

          Right on, Middle Ground.

          
          
11. on October 9, 2011 at 2:32 am | Reply Sam Salerno

    Hi Jessica. I know it can be depressing to listen to this constant irrational thinking. But if reason does not prevail we are left with a world full of superstitious humans. And as we know superstition has done nothing to progress the human race. The very fact that these people can criticize you is due to the fact that scientists have created this technology. Take away scientific technology and we are back to the christian dominated Dark Ages.
    Myself and thousands of other atheists, humanists, skeptics and freethinkers are in great debt to you for bringing this issue up to the youth of America.
    Separation of church and state is not that difficult of a concept. But the brainwashing done by the christian right is powerful. And to stand up to that is to stand on the side of truth. Real truth.
    How would PZ myers or Richard Dawkins put it. We do it because we are right.

    
    
12. on October 9, 2011 at 2:44 am | Reply Mark

    Beth, it doesn’t matter how long the banner has been up or how much of a part of school history it is. It is ILLEGAL. It was illegal when it was put up and is still illegal.

    
    
13. on October 9, 2011 at 3:10 am | Reply mouse

    Rock on sister. Keep fighting the good fight.

    
    
14. on October 9, 2011 at 3:27 am | Reply Tom (not the same one)

    Reading this both saddened me and filled me with joy. I was saddened by the bitter and spiteful ways that you were attacked, but I was overjoyed when I saw you rationally and thoughtfully rebuffing those attacks. You are an inspiration and an all-around well-reasoned person, and I thank you for standing up for our freedoms.

    
    
15. on October 9, 2011 at 3:44 am | Reply Clay

    You’re totally right in what you’re doing Jess, keep it up! People who stand up for the truth and what is right are always demonized. That’s unfortunately the way it is in this confused and fearful world. But you aren’t alone – even when it feels like it.

    Atheists and the non-religious are the largest and fastest growing minority today. And people like Tom and Michael are only helping that fact.

    
    
16. on October 9, 2011 at 3:55 am | Reply Danish Atheist

    Jessica, don’t take what the idiots say to heart. They attack you so savagely because you scare them!

    Good for the US that you are there fighting reason. If you get tired of all the religious hollering, move to Europe. We are a lot more low key when it comes to religion!

    
    
17. on October 9, 2011 at 3:56 am | Reply Danish Atheist

    Yikes — a word fell out … I meant “Good for the US that you are there fighting FOR reason.”

    
    
    • on January 18, 2012 at 6:45 pm | Reply Evan

      I’m glad that European citizens are getting an idea of how bad religious persecution by christians has gotten. That being said, Do you have any single female friends that would like to marry a massage therapist so I could escape religious persecution or just live in a community of reason?

      
      
      • on January 19, 2012 at 9:09 am | Reply Cormamin

        Haha or English writers who’d like to marry a web developer?

        
        
18. on October 9, 2011 at 4:24 am | Reply Stark

    There is really no point in arguing with stubborn christians. Tom Bauman is a victim of his own “ruling theory trap”.

    For your sanity, abstain from arguing or debating with anybody who isnt coming from a position of curiosity. If somebody asks questions, answer them. Otherwise just keep doing what you believe to be right.

    It doesn’t matter how much evidence you have, its not gonna change his mind. I’ve been there, i was once a devout christian and i made horseshit arguments that, looking back on them, were completely nonsensical. At the time i was so proud of myself and thought i would get lots of (what i call) Jesus Credits for fighting the good fight.

    Only through time and my own exploration and thoughts did i come to the realisation of how very wrong i was. We can only hope that everyone else opens their eyes too and starts being honest with themselves.

    
    
19. on October 9, 2011 at 4:30 am | Reply Alan

    You’re an excellent person. Never give up.

    
    
20. on October 9, 2011 at 4:55 am | Reply Erika

    I think what you are doing is great! I hate when people try to make religion precede law, and claim this country is based on religious ideals, when it wasn’t.

    I got a headache from all the stupidity some of these people spouted, but I applaud you for staying level-headed, kudos to you. Keep on fighting, know that there are people out here who do support you.

    
    
21. on October 9, 2011 at 5:18 am | Reply David Lally

    Hello, I’ve only recently become aware of your situation, and have done some searching to find out more to understand it better. This entire situation is ridiculous. The fact that they think that, because the “majority” want something a certain way, that trumps the law, is just retarded. And the abuse and stupidity you are forced to have to cope with is just obscene.

    I wish i had something useful to add, but just wanted to voice my support for your stand, and wish you all the best in your journey. You make me proud that there are those still willing to take a principled stand for what is right.

    
    
22. on October 9, 2011 at 5:22 am | Reply Jon

    I’m very sorry that you went through this. Your poise, tact, and tenacity was absolutely admirable throughout. I would have blown my cool much earlier, but you proved better than that. This random stranger is proud of you.

    
    
    • on January 24, 2012 at 1:42 pm | Reply Tonya

      +1

      
      
23. on October 9, 2011 at 5:22 am | Reply squishy_carrots

    The funny thing I have come to learn is that most if not all the wonderful stories in the bible were stolen from other, older religions. Also the repeated “85%” quote that was repeatedly thrown out by the little prophet Tom is likely to the question “do you believe in a god?” A god. ANY god. Perhaps also quoting the study, providing a link, or backing up you “85%” claim in any non-religion based way would make you seem less brainwashed.

    
    
24. on October 9, 2011 at 5:25 am | Reply squishy_carrots

    The funny thing I have come to learn is that most if not all the wonderful stories in the bible were stolen from other, older religions. Also the repeated “85%” quote that was repeatedly thrown out by the little prophet Tom is likely to the question “do you believe in a god?” A god. ANY god. Perhaps also quoting the study, providing a link, or backing up you “85%” claim in any non-religion based way would make you seem less brainwashed.

    Keep fighting for your rights. Never let anyone stop you from standing up.for what’s right! You have people backing from outside the US.

    
    
25. on October 9, 2011 at 5:29 am | Reply Cody

    …I don’t want to live on this planet any more.

    
    
26. on October 9, 2011 at 5:55 am | Reply That Guy

    It’s amazing how your patience stayed strong against these close-minded bigots. You have the support of countless atheist in America and around the world. Keep fighting, stay true to yourself. You will inspire others to stand up for themselves when the hordes of mentally impaired Christians come their way. I.e. People like Tom I-don’t-give-an-eff-about-my-brain. (Didn’t bother to check his last name.)

    
    
27. on October 9, 2011 at 7:13 am | Reply Stephen

    I’ve seen it written so many times, but now I get to to say it-
    “THE STUPID, IT HURTS!!!!!!!!!!!”

    The responses from some of the ‘good christians’ were laughable, in the unlikeley event he ever existed, I don’t think jesus’d be too pleased at some of the things they were saying to you.

    I live in the UK, techically a christian country, but from what I understand about American law you’re right and the school should not be promotong prayer to any specific god or gods, regardless of the dominent faith in the local area.

    You’re doing a good thing, keep it up

    
    
28. on October 9, 2011 at 7:28 am | Reply Setar

    His 85% figure is way, way wrong. Wiki’s figures put Christianity at 2-2.2 billion followers. Islam is second with 1.3-1.65 billion, and ‘no religion’ third with 1.1 billion. So that’s 29-32% for Christianity, 19-23% for Islam, and 16% no religion.

    Even in the US, only about 70% of the population identifies as Christian.

    
    
29. on October 9, 2011 at 8:21 am | Reply Cruize

    I have no idea how you managed to appear to stay calm for so long! I would have given up being diplomatic about halfway through and answered his ten BS arguments, then asked ten awkward questions about christianity (ie fictional Jesus, biblical contradictions, etc). From experience, if you turn the other cheek and play 100% defensive they just assume you’re weak and lack confidence in your beliefs.

    Such lovely people…. I work at a ‘Christian IT company’ and they’re the biggest bunch of sick-minded dishonest hypocrites I’ve ever had the misfortune to work with.

    
    
30. on October 9, 2011 at 8:25 am | Reply Josefin

    I’m an Atheist myself, if I would believe in anything it’ld be closest to Buddhism, I’ve read religions at school and find it very learning and interesting.

    Most religions are the same, they speak of the same “paradise” when we die, if you lived life good you’ll be rewarded with greatness, peace and happiness.
    They also say that you should treat people well, be kind and respect each other.

    Now what went wrong is how humans interpreted it all, they probably didn’t agree on certain things and it probably split into different religions.

    How I usually put perspective on God:
    We’re created in Gods shadow, therefore we must look like he does, but either we’re wrongly created since we aint purely good or God himself is also filled with hatred, just as us. This would make either God imperfect or make us a mistake. BUT God was proud of us, he thought we were his best creation, so how could his greatest creation be filled with hatred and why would he be proud of it? Even a baby would laugh at someone getting hurt.
    So God isn’t perfect, just like us.

    Lets say we, in our glory of science we accidently create a mini big bang in a tube, and we realize that it’s forming a universe with a planet in it just like earth, evolution start and soon we realize there are people in this little test tube we did. Would we then tell these people to worship us and treat us as gods?
    Does the fact that we accidently created them give us the right to portray as gods when we clearly are filled with imperfections ourselves?
    If anything it’s selfish and cruel, and for someone to name themselves with the title of God and ask people to worship him, anyone to do so would just be seeking a boost of confidence, and that is nothing to worship.

    
    
31. on October 9, 2011 at 8:40 am | Reply Allison Ruby

    I deeply admire the way you are able to articulate your arguments and keep your cool. I wish we had more people in this world who could do the same. Thank you for sharing this. It is important to expose the bigotry and hate that these very UN-Christian acting supposed Christians dish out. I wish they would go truly study and take to heart the overarching message of Jesus of Nazareth, which was loving, peaceful and compassionate. Your candor and clarity are an inspiration. Good luck with this and stay strong.

    
    
32. on October 9, 2011 at 8:44 am | Reply Emma Grahn

    Wow.

    Well done Jessica for keeping your head up. That was the most depressing pile of ignorant, idiotic bullshit I’ve ever read that you had to fight through.

    My sympathies.

    And why is it people who “know” they are right when they are dead wrong can never write properly?

    
    
33. on October 9, 2011 at 8:50 am | Reply brian

    Tom Bauman has me shown me the error of my ways! I’d been under the impression my whole life that one of the things that was supposed to be great about living in the United States was that everyone had equal rights, no matter who or what they are, but apparently I was wrong and whoever’s views have the statistical majority is irrefutably correct, regardless of the illegality and immorality of those views. Thanks, Tom!

    
    
34. on October 9, 2011 at 9:19 am | Reply Paul

    Jessica,

    I was very impressed at how you managed to remain calm and collected in the face of such seething rapid-fire ignorant hate.

    I’m sure you are well aware that people such as this deeply unlikeable ‘Tom’ are only behaving this way because they have been trained that way from birth. This display of vehement hatred has been engendered in him by a lifetime of religious indoctrination. The central meme in Islam, Judaism and Christianity, is the “we are chosen -they are not” outlook. This is “us vs. them” at it’s core. You are “different from them, therefore you are wrong, dangerous, evil and will burn in the fires of hell. It’s simply a programmed response designed to maintain their “faith” meme. It’s very encouraging that you appear to treat it as such, despite the horrible content of his response.

    It’s clear you are shaping up well as a critical free thinker.

    Tom, put forward ten, or so, “proofs” in favour of his beliefs. Each one of these was based on one or more logical fallacies. I can see you have a logical mind. However, if I may, could I suggest it may be worth your while to read up on The Logical Fallacies, as this is the single most powerful way to tear away the kinds of arguments Tom was making.

    My suggestion for reading on Logic would be “Introduction to Logic” by Irving M. Copi. This book will serve you well. I read it when I was sixteen, and it is probably the single-most formative book I’ve ever read. Logic really is the antithesis of dogmatic religious blind assertion.

    I’d also suggest picking up one of the many pocket books available which focus specifically on the fallacies (many of which are also available as ebooks).

    A last point is that I was very impressed with the moment where you, or your friend, pointed out that it is not posdible to argue against “Evolution” unless you understand it… However, I would tend to go further… If a person attacks the veracity or accuracy of the Scientific Theory of Evolution, then the simply to not understand it. For, if they understood it, they would actually accept it. As such, when a person attacks Evolution, I calmly inform them of this, and then inform them that as they do not understand Evolutionary Theory, it would be unfair of me to continue a debate with them on that subject, as they are simply ill-equipped to carry such a discussion. I then make it clear that I have no ill will towards them, and would happily disvuss any other subject with them.

    The thing is – entering a discussion about Evolution with a Creationist only serves to delude them further into believing that their arguments (which are invariably misunderstandings, fabrications, fallacies or lies) have merit on an even footing with the Theory of Evolution, which is plainly not the case. Denying them access to discussion on that topic will signal to them that there is something significant they are missing… I’ve used this approach with great success time and time again.

    Well – As a Scottish Free-thinking non-believer, living in Denmark, I want you to know that you have my support in challenging your School’s abuse of The Separation of Church and State. You are doing the right thing and you are not alone!

    Kind regards,

    -Paul J. McConnochie.

    
    
35. on October 9, 2011 at 9:19 am | Reply Paul

    Jessica,

    I was very impressed at how you managed to remain calm and collected in the face of such seething rapid-fire ignorant hate.

    I’m sure you are well aware that people such as this deeply unlikeable ‘Tom’ are only behaving this way because they have been trained that way from birth. This display of vehement hatred has been engendered in him by a lifetime of religious indoctrination. The central meme in Islam, Judaism and Christianity, is the “we are chosen -they are not” outlook. This is “us vs. them” at it’s core. You are “different from them, therefore you are wrong, dangerous, evil and will burn in the fires of hell. It’s simply a programmed response designed to maintain their “faith” meme. It’s very encouraging that you appear to treat it as such, despite the horrible content of his response.

    It’s clear you are shaping up well as a critical free thinker.

    Tom, put forward ten, or so, “proofs” in favour of his beliefs. Each one of these was based on one or more logical fallacies. I can see you have a logical mind. However, if I may, could I suggest it may be worth your while to read up on The Logical Fallacies, as this is the single most powerful way to tear away the kinds of arguments Tom was making.

    My suggestion for reading on Logic would be “Introduction to Logic” by Irving M. Copi. This book will serve you well. I read it when I was sixteen, and it is probably the single-most formative book I’ve ever read. Logic really is the antithesis of dogmatic religious blind assertion.

    I’d also suggest picking up one of the many pocket books available which focus specifically on the fallacies (many of which are also available as ebooks).

    A last point is that I was very impressed with the moment where you, or your friend, pointed out that it is not posdible to argue against “Evolution” unless you understand it… However, I would tend to go further… If a person attacks the veracity or accuracy of the Scientific Theory of Evolution, then the simply to not understand it. For, if they understood it, they would actually accept it. As such, when a person attacks Evolution, I calmly inform them of this, and then inform them that as they do not understand Evolutionary Theory, it would be unfair of me to continue a debate with them on that subject, as they are simply ill-equipped to carry such a discussion. I then make it clear that I have no ill will towards them, and would happily disvuss any other subject with them.

    The thing is – entering a discussion about Evolution with a Creationist only serves to delude them further into believing that their arguments (which are invariably misunderstandings, fabrications, fallacies or lies) have merit on an even footing with the Theory of Evolution, which is plainly not the case. Denying them access to discussion on that topic will signal to them that there is something significant they are missing… I’ve used this approach with great success time and time again.

    Well – As a Scottish Free-thinking non-believer, living in Denmark, I want you to know that you have my support in challenging your School’s abuse of The Separation of Church and State. You are doing the right thing and you are not alone!

    Kind regards,

    -Paul J. McConnochie.

    
    
36. on October 9, 2011 at 9:25 am | Reply yonder

    Tom Bauman is indeed a victim of his own “ruling theory trap”. Christinsanity is the biggest ‘ruling theory trap there is.
    Stark, you are an inspiration. Thank you for thinking.
    Josefin, just…… ….. …..

    
    
37. on October 9, 2011 at 9:29 am | Reply Trey Walker

    Don’t let people like this get to you, it’s going to happen. There are assholes in every group of people, Christianity is just a larger group so naturally they have more assholes. What you’re doing is right and I’m proud to know that there are still people that will fight for their rights and the rights given to them by this government, no matter how much hatred and bigotry they receive. You’re an impressive and strong young lady and have a bright future ahead of you. Don’t let anyone stand in your way, no matter how hurtful or bigoted they are. You have certainly gained me as a supporter.

    
    
38. on October 9, 2011 at 9:37 am | Reply Joseph Granade

    I would like to formally apologize for the well-intention, but clearly misguided Tom. In his book “On Liberty”, John Stuart Mill stated that the truth “if it is not fully, frequently, and fearlessly discussed, will be held as a dead dogma, not a living truth.” For Tom to lash out and insult demonstrates his inability to articulate his beliefs and defend them against scrutiny (as well as his ignorance of the teachings of his Bible). So his Christianity has to some extent become a dead dogma so to speak. Fortunately for Tom, Christians are not expected to be imperfect any more that people are (I only wish he would not display that fact so vehemently). I am a Christian and I welcome debate because I believe that a rational being must attend equally to both sides of an issue if he is to truly understand his own. I write this because I have a question for Atheists. Why do allow a God you do not believe in to occupy your time and thoughts? Why do so many Atheists lash out against Christianity, which serves to give people “hope and a future” (Jeremiah 29:11), when there are so many bad things in the world? There are so many terrible things being done in the world so why go on the offensive against one that only tries to build people up. And on an unrelated note, evolution is not a theory to be stood up to any religion because it is a theory of development, not creation. It provides no answer to how life came to be or how photosynthetic bacteria formed from nothing.

    
    
    • on October 9, 2011 at 9:49 am | Reply lily

      “There are so many terrible things being done in the world so why go on the offensive against one that only tries to build people up.”
      That is an interesting point; there are countless more, but I cannot, at the moment, think of a better example of “building people up”:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNNTcHq5Tzk

      
      
    • on October 9, 2011 at 10:49 am | Reply Paul

      Joseph,

      I will happily answer your questions.

      1. “Why do allow a God you do not believe in to occupy your time and thoughts?”

      Well, the simple answer to this question is that the Atheist does not have “a god” occupying their time and thoughts. What we do have occupying some of our time and thoughts are “religious people”. There are a number of reasons why this is so, and I will explain these in answer to your next question.

      2. “Why do so many Atheists lash out against Christianity, which serves to give people “hope and a future” (Jeremiah 29:11), when there are so many bad things in the world?”

      There are several answers to this multi-faceted question. I will tackle each facet in turn…

      Firstly, there are many many bad things happening in the world. That is correct. However, it is a fallacy to suggest that just because there are worst things happening around the world, we somehow should just ignore other problems.

      For example : A shop-keeper is busy at work, and suddenly a gang of thugs run in, shouting and swearing abusively at him as they grab several items from his store shelves, and run away with them; Should he choose not to phone the Police about this violation because children are starving in African Countries… Should he instead phone a charity to make a donation?

      Another Example : A Scientist is studying the AIDS Retrovirus. AIDS is a threat to human life. AIDS accounts for 4.87% of Human deaths. However, Cancer is statistically more threatening to human life. Cancer accounts for 12.64% of Human deaths. So, should the Scientist studying AIDS cease his studies of the Retrovirus, and take up studying Cancer instead? Afterall, more people are dying from Cancer? What about those seeking some kind of cure for the Common Cold? Should they stop studying that, and take up the fight against Cancer? For that matter, why are there Scientists studying Astronomy, when there are still Cancers threatening Human life?

      As you can see, just because problem A is worse than problem B, that is no reason why people should not tackle problem B. Problem B is still a problem, and should be tackled on it’s own merits.

      Secondly, there are several reasons why an Atheist person is required to speak out against religious people and their beliefs. What you have to understand, is that if religious people kept their personal religious beliefs to themselves, and focussed within their own homes and churches, then the Atheist would have nothing to complain about.

      An Atheist doesn’t even mind if a church decided to have a street march, or hand out leaflets in the Mall. These are exercisms of free-speech, and should be encouraged.

      The problem is, when a religious group (such as a Christians), attempt to enforce their personal beliefs on wider society. When this happens, it is vital that those who do not hold those beliefs stand up and speak out to make it clear that those beliefs do not represent them.

      An Example : Many religious people believe that it’s wrong to be Homosexual. These religious people often lobby against Homosexuality. They actively attempt to stop Homosexuals from being able to Marry, Adopt Children, Enter the Military, and a wide range of other activities. This is an example of a religious doctrine attempting to enforce a blanket policy across the whole of Society. In a situation like this, a free-thinking person must stand up and point out that just because YOU believe Homosexuality is wrong, gives you NO right to dictate how someone else lives their life… To do so would be an infringement of the civial liberties of that person.

      In the U.S. you live in a Secular Country. What this means is that whilst a person is free to follow any religious doctrine they wish, no single doctrine should be promoted by any public body. The reason for this is that no single religious doctrine can speak for the whole of Society. As such, there must be a Secular education system, where people of all faiths can receive an equal level of education. There should be a Secular legal system, where all people are tried under a standard set of laws, no matter their religious affiliation.

      So, you see, it is only when a religious body attempts to subvert Secular Society, and thereby infringe on the liberties of other members of that society, that people, such as the Atheist, are required to stand up and speak out.

      I will also mention, that the only reason you perceive Atheist people to have a specific problem with Christianity is because the predominate religion in your region is Christianity. If you were living in a predominately Muslim Country, the Secular people there would doubtless have to speak out against them just as often. So, you mustn’t view it as a specific attack on Christianity. If you were living in a predominately Secular society, like Denmark, where very few people actually believe in religions at all, you would find that the Atheist wouldn’t have many reasons to become vocal… They’d just get on with their lives and let the minority of religious people get on with theirs.

      So, only when religious people overstep the mark, infringing on Secular equality, do Atheist people have to become vocal.

      3: “on an unrelated note, evolution is not a theory to be stood up to any religion because it is a theory of development, not creation.”

      What you are describing, as “creation”, is the initial “spark” of life. In Science this is known as Abiogenisis.

      It sounds like you are saying Evolution isn’t what religious people should be campaigning against. I take it your rationale being that Evolutionary Theory has been well proven and is backed up by mountains of evidence, and “simply” describes how life developed AFTER it was first created. That’s well and good – but I wish you’d inform your fellow religious believers that they are to move back to Abiogenisis in their fight against Science. Because, I think that there are still many religious believers who still think Evolution is a serious problem for them, despite the fact that it’s true.

      I think the point you appear to be trying to make is that religious people should not have a problem with Evolutionary Theory, and it’s the idea of Natural Abiogenisis (the initial spark of life by natural means) you should really be concerned about.

      Well, that’s fair enough. But, I have to inform you that there are a very large number of Scientists working on the problem of Natural Abiogenisis right now, and there are a number of very strong Hypothesis gaining large amounts of Evidence, and a Theory cannot be far away.

      However, even whilst there is currently no final definitive Theory about Abiogenisis, that is no reason to plug the gap with magical god(s)…

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WVzKq_0Kjc

      You see – The problem with religion is that it is often opposed to Scientific Progress, and Scientific Progress is ALWAYS going to happen, and so religious people feel threatened by it. The religious person perceives Science as attempting to destroy their god(s). Well, if by a progress of Science, your god(s) are weakened, then that is not really a concern I have… That your god(s) CAN be weakened by a progress of Science, is something I think you need to look at and think about very carefully… perhaps with a critical eye?

      Hopefully, I’ve helped answer some of your questions.

      Kind regards,

      -Paul J. McConnochie.

      
      
    • on January 21, 2012 at 4:51 pm | Reply Alana

      1. I love you for quoting John Stuart Mill.
      (I’m a philosophy major who envisions some sort of utopian fusion between Plato’s meritocracy and Mill’s libertarian ideals)
      2. I’m the Alana in this conversation.
      (I actually had no idea she transcribed this conversation into her blog until my brother told me about it)
      I still support Jess.
      I’m in college now, and I’ve actually brought this incidence up in my polysci class.
      For the record, my classmates support what Jess did

      
      
39. on October 9, 2011 at 9:42 am | Reply Nam

    That was painful to read.

    
    
40. on October 9, 2011 at 9:55 am | Reply David

    Forget the debate about evolution, about “ruling theory” and everything else in that Facebook conversation. Look at how much “douchery” those two supposed Christians Tom and Mike are displaying. I can’t believe no one has kicked their asses for the way they talked to you.

    If some little teenage asshole had said shit like that to my daughter/son there would be no stopping the repercussions.

    How can anybody act like such bigoted dick bags when they’re so clearly in the wrong? Scratch that, even if they were RIGHT and all the evidence allowing shit like that in schools was there how can they claim to follow and tout the teachings of Jesus when they can’t carry on a discussion without some harmful epithet or baseless comment?

    WTF is wrong with people? I’d chalk it up to being teenagers but….damn!

    Keep up the good fight. Hypocritical Christians need to be exposed for everyone to see.

    -David

    
    
41. on October 9, 2011 at 9:59 am | Reply lily

    Dedicated to Tom B.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBUc_kATGgg&list=FLrQ2oHzBtRSg3WL_JiRW56A&index=33

    
    
42. on October 9, 2011 at 10:00 am | Reply lily

    And more from Tim Minchin (who is, by the way, playing Lupo’s on November 5, for anyone interested ):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ET1-_PeExMs&feature=autoplay&list=FLrQ2oHzBtRSg3WL_JiRW56A&playnext=1

    
    
43. on October 9, 2011 at 10:44 am | Reply Jennifer Grady

    I attended Cranston West from 1999-2002 and my hat is off to you for what you are doing. I want to personally assure you that the many others who went through Cranston West before you and “never had an issue with the prayer” were layered with people like me who, as a teenager, would not have had the courage to speak up for myself. In reading this exchange, I am in awe of your poise and conviction. I am very, very certain of my lack of belief but I can’t say that I would be as unflinching as you in the face of such vicious personal attack. You are clearly a strong woman, and you speak with an intelligence and wisdom that belies your age. You have more support than you know

    
    
44. on October 9, 2011 at 10:47 am | Reply Hockey Bob

    Tom Bauman and Michael Shaghalian – future GOP candidates for office? Both of their positions are spoken like true christians…

    The prayer is illegal. Period. Full stop. End of story.

    As for you, “Beth”, you’re so utterly clueless, I’m surprised you can still remember to breathe. Who typed that inane response of yours – did you let a cat walk on your keyboard or something?

    
    
45. on October 9, 2011 at 10:54 am | Reply Paul Coyne

    Truly scary that that guy Tom thinks he’s going to be a lawyer. With his capacity for logical thought I’m amazed he can even dress himself in the morning.

    
    
46. on October 9, 2011 at 11:12 am | Reply Thomas Bourque

    I love it when people call other people stupid and misspell and/or misuse every other word. I hope you win, Jessica!

    
    
47. on October 9, 2011 at 11:14 am | Reply Thomas Bourque

    I also love trying to read paragraphs of text with no punctuation marks.

    
    
48. on October 9, 2011 at 11:16 am | Reply Ashley

    Hey little girl,
    As an atheist myself I am very proud of you, and how you are standing up for your rights in the face of such ignorance and hate. There are some incredibly flawed arguments coming your way. Trust me when I say that arguing with these people is a waste of time. However if you’re going to aruge, there are a couple things you should know. First Tom was absolutely incorrect in his 85% statement, which was discussed above. Second his claim that Intelligent Design is a scientific theory is absolutely false. For something to be a valid scientific theory, it needs to be testable. Since there is no test to prove if God exists or not, ID can not be a scientific theory. Also, the burden of proof is put on the person proposing the theory. So this means it is up to Christians to prove that God exists, not atheists to prove that he doesn’t.
    There was one wrong statement you made yourself, and I do want to address it because it’s kind of a big deal:
    Jessica Ahlquist: You know what else bananas are perfect for? Monkeys, apes, from which we EVOLVED.
    Humans did NOT evolve from monkeys or apes. We all evolved from a common ancestor. An argument I have heard from those who don’t believe in evolution several times is ‘if we evolved from monkeys, why are monkeys still around?’ Please, please, for the sake of your own sanity make sure you get your facts absolutely right. They’re going to be judging you much more and coming down harder on any mistakes you make, so you have to protect yourself. I wish you all the best and hope you succeed in your fight.

    
    
49. on October 9, 2011 at 11:39 am | Reply middle ground

    I fully support separation of church and state and commend Jessica for taking the heat on this issue.

    But complaining that the people who argue against you are being disrespectful while calling them idiots, retards, etc., is just as disingenuous and disrespectful as their comments. saying you are being calm and respectful doesn’t make it true, even if someone else agrees with you and says the same (while also insulting the other side).

    Great start, but you still have some things to learn.

    
    
    • on October 9, 2011 at 3:49 pm | Reply Nick

      He ‘friended’ her to attack in the first place you fool. You also can’t type with enough proper grammar to give any sort of advice.

      (Don’t start a sentence with ‘but’, are you in grade school?) But (Comma) complaining that the people who argue against you are being disrespectful while calling them idiots(Run on), retards, etc., is just as disingenuous(Nice, Firefox spellcheck?) and disrespectful as their comments. (Capitalize the start of a sentence.) (s)aying you are being calm and respectful doesn’t make it true(,)(Improper comma) even if someone else agrees with you (You should have ended this sentence here and started another, sans the ‘and’ to avoid another run-on/incomplete thought.) and says the same (while also insulting the other side).

      “Great start, but you still have some things to learn.”

      
      
50. on October 9, 2011 at 11:43 am | Reply Will

    The quote that made me giggle:
    “The universe is organized alana the earth is perfect distance from the sun all of the components of life and the conditions for life to exist are perfectly ordered. This cant happen naturally”

    I cannot find a number large enough to quantify how many planets there must be in this endless universe. Of those planets, at least one being capable of naturally sustaining life is a certainty. It’s a pity that when it did, reality got dicks like Tom.

    Keep up the good work, Jess.

    
    
    • on January 19, 2012 at 9:18 am | Reply Cormamin

      Didn’t we find evidence of (previously alive) life on Mars, or Mars rocks, or something? Were they God’s failed attempt?

      I find it incredibly improbable that this is planet is the only one with life on it. Even if it’s not life as we know it. It’d be a hell of an anomaly for ONE planet in the whole place to have living organisms on it.

      And before I get bashed for saying that….if the creation theory is true, and “God saw it was good”, why exactly would he stop with us? The bible says he made everything else on Earth, and then we (the supposedly only intelligent species) royally fucked up, pissed him off, and were cast out of Eden. So why wouldn’t he be like…”Screw you guys, I’m going to (insert planet) to start over. Maybe there they won’t be such dicks.”…or something? Nobody better come back with eternal love. XD

      
      
51. on October 9, 2011 at 11:54 am | Reply Beaux

    Look at them with their hate and small-mindedness. Like young Republicans.

    
    
52. on October 9, 2011 at 1:05 pm | Reply Ryan Moran

    The Banana Gambit is a my personal favorite anti-evolution argument since it is one of the few arguments you can defeat with one word: pineapple. Really if you’re arguing with someone and banana’s is the best they can come up with, you’ve already won.

    It continues to amaze me (although by now it probably shouldn’t) that people continue to not understand the Constitution or even our form of government (we’re a republic not a democracy). Apparently their education has never gotten to the Federalist Papers where they would learn that our system of government is designed to protect us from factions (with specific mention of religious ones) and the tyranny of the majority.

    
    
53. on October 9, 2011 at 2:26 pm | Reply Taylor Grenga

    I’m so glad these jerks graduated.

    
    
54. on October 9, 2011 at 2:55 pm | Reply Angela

    I’m not an atheist (I’m pagan, actually) but believe me – you are absolutely 100% correct. Anyone who doesn’t believe so is a flaming idiot with absolutely zero understanding of what the Constitution really stands for. I admire you for what you’re doing, and I appreciate that you have the stones to stand up for what’s right. It’s something that I don’t know I would have had the courage to do myself at your age, to be perfectly honest.

    Also, I’d like to give you props for not just telling those guys to go fuck themselves with a wad of barbed wire, which is probably what I would have done.

    
    
55. on October 9, 2011 at 4:06 pm | Reply Jase

    I get the point that for someone not practicing a religion would feel like they shouldn’t have to see something based on it. However, this is more than free speech its also freedom of religion whether you believe in something or not. One side should not dictate how much the other can do. I hear a lot about christians shoving religion down peoples throats. I feel atheists are doing the same using a law to force their beliefs under the premise of no religion. But there is no true atheist cause everyone believes in something.
    As for separation of church in state..it only states that the government can not establish a religion and make anyone go or take something established and make it mandatory. It has nothing to do about when and where people can practice.
    And if a place has a legacy what right do you have to change it.. does it make it better? Or is it to make you feel better cause you question your own beliefs and you don’t want to face them hand on. I do encourage to walk this journey and find where you fit in this world. As a christian myself I have my doubts some days but I have seen more than my share to know there is more to this world than just humanity.

    
    
    • on October 9, 2011 at 4:44 pm | Reply ad_astra

      Jase, you are right that you, as the member of any religion, have every right to pray and practice your beliefs anywhere you choose. I’m an atheist but as an American I would fight for your right to practice your religion freely. You, however, are not a government agency funded by the taxes of people from all walks of life. Public schools are and that is the problem. No one is taking the rights of religious student groups to pray, carry a bible, wear religious clothing, or express their religion but it is wrong and un-American to allow a publicly funded school to pick a religion and sponsor it in that it infringes on the rights of students from other religions (or lack their of) and even those of other denominations.

      If you had to walk into a school everyday and see a school prayer banner for Allah, Mithra, or Shiva, you would be fine with that? If your teachers led the class in prayers to other gods or if Islamic, pagan, or Hindu religious activities were the norm and sponsored by your school and not participating made you an outsider, you would feel like you were on equal footing? Let’s even use a christian example, if you are protestant but the school sanctions, practices, and leads students in catholic traditions this would be exclusionary.

      These are good examples the government establishing religious preferences and these are things christianity push for every day in this country. It is completely disrespectful and offensive to expect others to fall in line and sacrifice what they feel is sacred (for me, an atheist, this would freedom from superstition) just so you can continue to enjoy christian privilege.

      **also, you should know that saying “But there is no true atheist cause everyone believes in something.” is a sentiment that is REALLY offensive to many atheists, including me. It is a belittling and ignorant statement. Also, it incorrectly assumes the definition of being an atheist. Atheism is not believing in god/s, not lacking a belief in “something.” I believe in love, honesty, hope, humanity, creativity, mercy, compassion, and the preciousness of life but I still have NO belief in a god, therefore, I’m an atheist.

      
      
56. on October 9, 2011 at 4:25 pm | Reply ad_astra

    Wow. I’m always astounded at the amount of hatred, intolerance, and ignorance people are capable of. Glad to see Mike was keeping it classy with all those ad hominems. Using bigoted slurs like “cunt” is always the mark of a secure, smart person with a factual argument.

    
    
57. on October 9, 2011 at 7:33 pm | Reply Fredric

    I’m not from England, neither the States or Australia, so have patience with any type-o’s:

    I’m amused, in a way, to see this many people rallying to attack a person who’s trying to defend her constitutional right, by trying to twist the constitution to their own advantage.

    Some background so that you can see my reasonable line of thoughts: I grew up in a very religious family (not my parent, but grandparents, aunts and uncles) in Scandinavia. My first memory of my grandmother was her outrage when she discovered that my father had not teached me “Our father”. But then again I were only three years, and my parents agreed that any religious studies would have to wait until i Confirmed my faith or not at the age of 13.
    At the age of 13 I started bible-studies, which in Scandinavia is based on the willingness of the kids, and went to church a lot. But I also chose to read the bible, both the old- and the new testament, from cover to cover during the bible studies. And honestly: All the contradictions in reason, morale and just the sheer numbers of switches in beliefs of the phenomenon incest made me sick. And on this my personal opinion is that EVERYONE should read the bible from cover to cover (new- and old testament). Not for any ethic and/or moral guide, but because the world need more reasonable atheists.

    I mean, seriously: If you look at the statistics of your own country. You’re the richest country in the world, but over 50% of your population lives beneath the povertyline set out by the UN (yes, I know…. liberal, pinko, commie bastards). Yet 7 out of 10 americans KNOW that God exist and that he created the world and the heavens in six days before he rested at the seventh. And this was before he invented light! The guy must be awesome, right? It warms my cockles to think about this fantastic guy who, with malice, condemned EVERY LIVING CREATURE, except a chosen few that got to ride a boat with Noa (5 million different species times 2, 10 million….quite a big boat), to death through the most thourough genocide ever performed. Hitler and Stalin would have loved to lay their hand on this kind of tech. And the ones he “saved” were condemned to an eternity of incestuous relations with parents, siblings, cousins and grandparents. What a nice fellow this guy (god/jehova/allah/whateverhisbloodynameisinyourbook) is…

    And then, when I have just taken a few examples of the gibberish you cite as fact, you compare the statistics of the US of A with other parts of the world where the religious movement is really dense: Those 85% (which is a very incorrect number… the more truthful is that 85% is registered in some religious cult, but only 68.76% of theese actually “know that God did it!”) which some guy uses as an argument lives between the poverty line as well.
    And then we turn to history and look at every horror done to humanity in the name of religion: We have the burning of the temples, we have the crusades, we have the inquisition, we have the slaying of Mecca and Medina, we have the first and second intifada, we have 9/11 2001, we have every attempt to annihilate Israel, every terror-attack done to anyone and let us not forget the persecutions during the second world war. Not a nice record, and then I’ve just taken those events that EVERYONE should know of and relate to.
    How come that the people, during theese horrible and profound evil events, went along with it? They were given a false hope of a better afterlife! It’s called “the opium of the masses” by a very good reason.

    So: The US and the other densely religious belts of the world have one thing in common: A lot(!!!!) of poverty. Sollution; simple… Give the poor people the hope of a better life after this one. Now isn’t that great? You have no larger civil unrest, and the “elected rulers” don’t really need to worry.

    I could sit here and go on for hours: But all you need to do is to google on the words “the American constitution” and “the American declaration of independence” and you’ll find a lot of actual FACTS about it. Because when we speak about “freedom of religion” in a modern society, we also speak about the freedom FROM religion as well.
    There was a reason that your great country got a lot of immigrants from Europe: Their perversion of religious beliefs and line of thoughts were unwanted here. America was the haven, luckily, and everyone were welcome back then.
    I am proud to say that some in my family-tree immigrated to America, but it was not because of persecution. It was for the American dream and the freedom FROM religion. They did great, and I won’t give actual names so that they’ll get hurt for my internet-based outburst. But I’m watching in horror, with the rest of the civilized world, as your great country is beeing run in the ground by religious biggots.

    Darwins “theory of evolution” is not a ‘theory’ in the same way as communism, capitalism or fascism. It’s a ‘theory’ in the scientific way: It’s the most likely and will stand as a fact until someone is able to disproove the theory.
    Intelligent design (cleverly coverword for “creationism” I must say), on the other hand, can’t even be classed as a true scientific theory, as it’s so called proof fell flat on it’s arse within the first year of it’s excistence. Scientiffically disprooven…
    Creationism is just a plain loony way of religion to explain how everything became what it is.

    And as for lacking evidence of the evolution of mammals (humanity counts as bipedal mammals), cold blooded animals, fish and other living thing: That is the most profoundly ignorant statement I’ve read in a long time. I think that the last time I read it was when I studied the rise and fall of Nazi-Germany and had to read “Mein Kampf” to get a picture of Adolf as a person.
    Have you ever been to a museum of natural history and asked for a guided tour? They will show you the proof that you try to lie away.
    Have you ever read any script explaining the basics of scientific discovery? Have you ever bothered to listen to anyone who’s not your priest or average fanatic?

    As for carbon 14 testing beeing inaccurate? Can you show me the study, of thousands of testing back and forth, that disprooves this? I’ve only found the opposite. But perhaps I’m reading false information? Perhaps I should turn to godisall.com?

    And since when is a manmade document an absolute truth? Every religious scripture is manmade. Wether it’s the Torah and Talmud, the old- and new testament, the Quo’ran, Sanscrit BS, buddhistic texts, hindi scriptures, scientology (my favorite: Everytime I take a crap, a piss, I fart or belch I’m one step closer to immortality and the ability to speak to Zebras) or the Jedi code (yes, there are morons who believe in this crap seriously). Man made texts will never be an absolute truth.
    Science is neither an absolute truth. The difference is that every scientific claim is open for recoupment if you can disproove it. Something that religion NEVER gave you the right to do.

    So please! The world is laughing at you.

    I’m not laughing though… I’m ashamed for you, since you seem to lack that ability yourselves…

    Cheers!

    
    
58. on October 9, 2011 at 7:43 pm | Reply Fredric

    Fact is much more fun to live by. And the following is the closest thing to a factual life-codex you will ever find:

    - The world is meaningless, there is no God or gods, there are no morals, the universe is not moving inexorably towards any higher purpose.

    - All meaning is man-made, so make your own, and make it well.

    - Do not treat life as a way to pass the time until you die.

    - Do not try to “find yourself”, you must make yourself.

    - Choose what you want to find meaningful and live, create, love, hate, cry, destroy, fight and die for it.

    - Do not let your life and your values and you actions slip easily into any mold, other that that which you create for yourself, and say with conviction, “This is who I make myself”.

    - Do not give in to hope. Remember that nothing you do has any significance beyond that with which imbue it.

    - Whatever you do, do it for its own sake. When the universe looks on with indifference, laugh, and shout back, “Fuck You!”.

    - Rembember that to fight meaninglessness is futile, but fight anyway, in spite of and because of its futility.

    - The world may be empty of meaning, but it is a blank canvas on which to paint meanings of your own. Live deliberately. You should be free…

    
    
59. on October 9, 2011 at 10:37 pm | Reply hey why not?

    “take this down!” “tear that down!” ” i dont agree with it so i dont want to see it!” “you’re wrong!” ” No! you’re freakin wrong!” jeezus freakin christ people! what hell is wrong with everybody! this is why the human race will not survive forever! hey! why not instead of ripping everything down (banners,christmas trees, mosques, churches, anything religious or non) we do the opposite and put everything up! constantly walking around and seeing all the options all the time, letting you choose which one you want to follow and learning how to respect everyone else’s choice at the same time. pretty soon here if we keep following this same path we are on, we,re not gonna have a beautiful country to look at! no christmas trees and lights, no golden manoras, no quirky little quips about treating others how u want to be treated, no special holidays to spend with the ones u love anymore, all this because everyone is offended by everyone else! when did we all become such little pussies? in the great words of the beatles “let it be” and also “all u need is LOVE” I personally dont believe in god or creationism and i believe that evolution has already been proven. but i will not lower myself into a debate or arguement about who is right or wrong because the ONLY outcome is just a bunch of small hurt people. Yeah you can prove your points somehow i imagine but your only hurting the other person anyhow. Can u live with that?

    
    
60. on October 9, 2011 at 11:00 pm | Reply hey why not?

    i like this fredric guy! my way of thinking has changed a bit and my understanding of my thought process has been enlightened much more! thank u fredric! your awesome.

    
    
61. on October 9, 2011 at 11:57 pm | Reply ScottFarmer

    Did Tom seriously bust out the second law of thermodynamics? LMAO. Oh man, can these people ever get new material? Earth is not a closed system, which is what the second law applies to. I wonder if Tom knows the first law of thermodynamics?

    
    
62. on October 10, 2011 at 3:15 am | Reply Fredric

    HeyWhyNot: The sad thing about an internet forum is that you can’t read irony or genuinity.

    If you’re ironic: Cheers…

    If you’re genuine: Cheers.

    Scott Farmer: I think it is a way to look more educated than one actually is.

    
    
63. on October 10, 2011 at 4:11 am | Reply Steve

    Hey just wanted to say you got support in Portland, Oregon. Nearly everybody here has got your back, you’d have a lot of friends over here if you ever move!

    It seems like over the last 10 years Christians have become the most ill-behaved, un-educated, vitriolic assholes in the country– perfectly illustrated by Tom’s behavior here. These people know so little about their own book that they believe calling a 15 year old girl a “bitch” is something that Jesus would be proud of. It’s appalling.

    Also, Tom is honestly one of the dumbest fuckers I have ever seen anyone forced to converse with. Reasoning with that guy is like trying to explain to a southern redneck in 1965 why black people should be treated like humans.

    
    
64. on October 11, 2011 at 7:24 pm | Reply Alex

    After reading this post, I really wanted to write a comment and tell you how much I admire your patience and kindness with people so rude and irrational.
    Keep like this, because you’re an inspiration for young atheists across the world.
    Greetings from Mexico

    
    
65. on October 12, 2011 at 6:09 pm | Reply Peter Sosna

    I wonder what Tom thinks of Jessica now, since she has been asked to speak at The Center For Inquiry, The SSA Leadership Conference, and just last weekend, the Freedom From Religion Foundation’s annual convention, where she received a standing ovation and a large scholarship check. She has had the chance to rub shoulders with some very famous people who admire her! Hey Tom, how many speeches have you been invited to make?

    
    
66. on October 14, 2011 at 4:10 am | Reply Paul Phillips

    This is Jessica and her followers: LOVERS OF SELF

    
    
    • on January 12, 2012 at 4:17 am | Reply Steve C.

      In all honesty, if you don’t love yourself how can you love others?

      
      
67. on October 14, 2011 at 4:12 am | Reply Joshua

    Hello Jessica, I just read an article talking about your situation, and honestly, I’m truly baffled by what you’ve done. Let me start of by saying that I am a Christian (and view myself as a Conservative Republican), and that I attend a well respected university, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, majoring in Nuclear Engineering (point being that I love science, and am pretty much a nerd ). When I finished reading the article, I’ll tell you honestly that I was a bit angry and frustrated, as I had to deal with people like minded as you during high school (which was fairly liberal), and felt the need to find your site to leave an intelligible comment. It feels as if today there is a very low tolerance for Christians, even though there are claims of open mindedness, and that most of time Christians are categorized as being like Tom Bauman, if he is Christian. So I fail to see how you could have been so offended by the mural that you decided to pursue a lawsuit against the school under the rather poor guise of it being unconstitutional. To me, it’s a blatant attack against Christian belief disguised as being an affront to Separation of Church and State. I truly hope you will respond so that we may have an intelligent discussion so that I may further understand your baffling train of thought that has got you to where you are now (I’m not here to bash you in any way shape or form). I believe you should be able to see my email, and I thank you for time.

    
    
    • on January 12, 2012 at 5:20 am | Reply Jeremy

      To be so smart, you sure are stupid. It’s illegal. How many ways does this need to be spelled out to you people? Low tolerance for christians? Oh, please. You make up 80% of our population. Get over your self pity party. “As a christian” you’re offended by this, shocker. You wouldn’t give a shit if it was a Muslim banner being taken down, so quit with the crap. You’re just mad that because you’re the majority you’re not over the laws of this country. Too damn bad, lady!

      
      
68. on October 14, 2011 at 10:12 am | Reply Paul

    Jessica, God loves us despite ourselves. He can get through to us and help make some sense of it all, when all others fail us. I will continue to pray daily for you and your supporters, as I will also pray for those who claim to be christian but espouse a level of hatred they certainly did not receive from the Holy Spirit. They need Him as well.

    We all need Him regardless of our beliefs or response to Him. In the name of Jesus, may He keep and bless you.

    
    
    • on January 11, 2012 at 8:03 pm | Reply Julie M

      The arrogance in assuming that people need your brand of religion to live life is breathtaking. Sometimes I wonder if you and those espousing your beliefs even realize this.

      
      
      • on January 17, 2012 at 4:39 pm | Reply Amii Lockhart

        I don’t think they see it – it’s part of the indoctrination. They see prosletyzing as a humble act, because it is at their god’s behest, and the Bible actually directs them to do it. I think that for the most part, Christians are baffled about the arrogance accusation. That of course, does not stop it from being a creepily arrogant act.

        
        
    • on January 12, 2012 at 5:22 am | Reply Jeremy

      Pray all you want, your god is probably still not real. And if he is, based on your book, he’s a real asshole.

      
      
69. on October 15, 2011 at 10:29 am | Reply Wednesday

    Sadly this has recieved notice, when really there are causes and people much more deserving of a voice. Of all the horrible things that happen around the world and locally, this is the fight you take up – take all of this energy to really help someone. The elderly, the homeless, etc. People have real problems and this is not one of them. You waste time and money trying to take away something that provides others with hope and peace. Your self-centered behavior is pushing your views on others. Go to school, learn, relax – be happy that you’re not abused, depressed (questionable with your actions) or worse. I do see this as a shot for fifteen minutes of fame. Hopefully, this will be your greatest tragedy in life – that there is a prayer in your view- I would not wish anything worse on anyone.

    
    
    • on January 12, 2012 at 5:25 am | Reply Jeremy

      All i read from this was, “Wah! We’re the majority, the law shouldn’t matter to us!”

      Worse problems in the world, huh? So i guess because cancer kills more people than drunk drivers, we shouldn’t call the cops when we see a drunk guy get in a car? I mean, there are bigger problems in this world, right?

      
      
70. on October 20, 2011 at 10:47 am | Reply Erin

    Dear Jessica,

    I wish I could tell you how much I admire your ballz. Crude? Maybe. But I really wanted to get the point across.

    I look back on my high school years, and I remember when I was exploring the Wiccan faith in my transition to full-on atheism, and the attitude I received. My best friend at the time, a devout christian… was my best friend for 16 years (and, mind you, I haven’t spoken but two words to her in several years now) was having a discussion with the school counselor, with the DOOR OPEN about me and how she was so scared for my immortal soul. The principal walked by, overheard my name, and took it upon himself to call my aunt, another very devout christian, and ask her if “everything [was] ok at home.”

    At some other point, I was going to church every Sunday by family mandate, and I had a girl my age who I was friends with say to me that she wasn’t finding herself spiritually fulfilled by “church” anymore. So I asked her if she’d explored other religions, and I named a couple… She was so upset, she talked to her mother, who talked to her grandmother who talked to MY grandmother, who promptly barred me from church.

    I was shunned by that community. I was never a part of any of their organizations. I was never invited to things. I have been less involved even since I became an atheist. Maybe if someone like you had come along before, I wouldn’t have been so ostracized, even by my own family.

    To the person who asked why you aren’t trying to help folks who are homeless and hungry or folks who “really” need your help… I suppose atheists aren’t folks who need help… And I suppose that, I don’t know, the American Cancer Society would be happy to take whatever damages you might be awarded as a result of this law suit… Oh wait, they don’t want the money of atheists.

    Girl, don’t let anyone get you down. I’m proud of you, for what little that’s worth, and I appreciate what you’re doing, even if this isn’t what you meant to have happen.

    Sincerely yours,
    Erin Leland
    Columbus, Indiana

    
    
71. on October 20, 2011 at 11:07 pm | Reply Teajay

    This Tom dude isn’t even worth arguing with. Lol, children.

    
    
72. on November 3, 2011 at 12:44 am | Reply Tao

    Jessica, just wanted to add my vote to the “Fuck me you dealt with tom in an amazingly well proportioned, polite and human way…” I wouldn’t have been nearly as nice really it is an awesome real life example of how to stay human in the face of delusion and idiocy.

    
    
73. on November 21, 2011 at 8:56 pm | Reply Luke

    Hey Jessica, some atheist love coming to you keep up the good fight! just remember who calls you a cunt… yeah, the “christians!”

    
    
74. on December 31, 2011 at 6:06 pm | Reply Fuck You

    Tom is an amazing person and a wonderful friend and he did this because you’re irrational and stupid remarks. I’m don’t really have a religion, and Tom is one of my closest friends. It doesn’t bother him. Cause he’s a good kid. He targeted you because you attacked our high school prayer which is a traditional and meaningful thing in our school. If you did not like it, you shouldn’t have looked at it or taken it to heart, without bringing it to the media. It’s childish. Mature and realize that. Oh just so you know this is so dumb of you to post this, its qualified as cyber bullying, but since Tom is mature I know he won’t mind. He’ll find it funny. But to me, when i heard about this I was angered beyond words. You should be ashamed.

    
    
    • on January 3, 2012 at 11:29 pm | Reply Alex

      How can you possibly claim that Tom was the mature one in the situation when he was the one who felt the need to friend Jessica on Facebook for the sole purpose of harassing her?

      
      
    • on January 12, 2012 at 6:15 am | Reply Charles

      It’s childish to call you the school’s unconstitutional tax-funded religious support? No. You being offended about not getting what you want is what’s immature. Him friending her on Facebook just to attack her is even more immature.

      
      
    • on January 14, 2012 at 1:01 am | Reply Skoal Man

      Well, fuck you too. Rude boy Tom is your quintessential fundamentalist/pseudo intellectual asshat that wouldn’t know a logical argument if it hit him in the face.

      What is truly childish is your appeal to tradition; as if something should be proper because it was once passed down within society and maintained. You know, friend of the rude boy Tom, slavery was once traditional too. Will you also defend slavery on the grounds that it was “traditional and meaningful” to a lot of people?

      Incidentally, Tom wasn’t a captive audience. No, it was his own decision to stick around and bully Jessica with his ignorant douchebaggery. If I were you, child, I would be extremely ashamed to even be associated with such a looser.

      
      
75. on January 6, 2012 at 1:01 pm | Reply Keith

    Get out of that crap town and move to a real city–you won’t have to deal with idiots anymore.

    
    
76. on January 11, 2012 at 7:59 pm | Reply Steve Ollington

    Bravo Jessica,

    As I have been learning myself for a few years now, and you know doubt already know from the communication above… discussing these issues with Christians requires a lot of patience. We seem to have to go through tedious repetition with them explaining certain things. It displays how un-researched they are that they consistently use the same arguments which are dis-proven time and time again. i.e. If I had a penny for every time I’m told the US was founded as a Christian nation, despite it being factually incorrect and the evidence that it was founded with a view to being entirely secular is common knowledge among those who actually bother to check… well, I’d be a very wealthy man.

    There seems to be some confusion with numbers too… 85% of the planet? Actually much of the planet is made up of various religious denominations but the largest of all (much in part due to India, and more recently the increasingly secular Northern Europe) is in fact made up of non-believers.

    Hitchens would be proud of you for having the patience and applying your intelligence in the way that you have here.

    On that note, I wonder if you would do us the honour of endorsing our petition to get a statue of Hitch put up in London, and possibly also DC?

    We would be proud to get your signature at http://www.atheist-reference.org

    Thanks, and well done for your valiant fight for rationality and critical thought!

    Steve.

    
    
77. on January 11, 2012 at 8:04 pm | Reply Julie M

    Congratulations, Jessica. It’s been a long fight. The Shibas are behind you!

    
    
78. on January 11, 2012 at 9:00 pm | Reply Gm

    Jessica, as a closeted atheist at Christian high school in the bible belt, I envy your courage. Like most of the other people who read your post, my head hurt seeing how illogical, ignorant and downright rude the opposition could be. Its sad to see how bronze age mythology has survived for so long. I hope to hear more about you in the future and good luck with your future endeavours! With amazing leadership skills like this your bound to get into a great college.

    
    
79. on January 11, 2012 at 10:38 pm | Reply Warren Senders

    Dear Jessica – I have followed your story on Pharyngula for some time. Congratulations on the court decision — and congratulations as well on your ability to maintain poise and dignity in the face of the Christian obloquy you’ve been receiving. I am very very impressed.

    I grew up atheist in the 1960s and 1970s in a Boston suburb. I wrote about it on my blog: http://www.warrensenders.com/journal/?p=4

    Perhaps you’ll find it interesting.

    Please accept my reiterated congratulations — and my deep admiration for the strength of your convictions.

    I’m sure I’ll hear more about you in the future.

    
    
80. on January 12, 2012 at 1:26 am | Reply anon

    You are an angsty little cunt, aren’t you Jessica? Definition of a first world spoiled brat.

    
    
    • on January 12, 2012 at 4:03 am | Reply Steve C.

      The hate is strong in this one, hmm?
      If you have a cogent argument, then make it. Insults spoken by cowards who hide behind the mask of anonimity have no weight at all.

      Jessica? Well done.

      
      
      • on January 21, 2012 at 4:54 pm | Reply Alana

        hi steve!

        
        
    • on January 12, 2012 at 2:57 pm | Reply Howard

      The christian love on this page is truly inspiring.

      
      
    • on January 12, 2012 at 3:59 pm | Reply Osmany Herrera

      Friend, don’t be so harsh. Just condemn us to hell and we’ll laugh. It’s simple really. It’s when you write stupidity that encourages a form of retaliation.

      
      
81. on January 12, 2012 at 3:10 am | Reply lindsey

    Ha ha hilarious! What kind of idiot is this girl? Good news is we all die someday…..what happens if you’re wrong? Judgement is going to be a Bitch! Lol

    
    
    • on January 12, 2012 at 3:55 am | Reply Steve C.

      Lindsey, what happens if YOU’RE wrong? When you die, and find yourself standing before Pluto at the gates of the underworld, are you going to wonder how you got it so wrong?
      (The underworld is not the christian hell, it’s the same as the christian heaven.)

      
      
    • on January 12, 2012 at 6:21 am | Reply Charles

      What kind of idiot are you to not realize that that argument goes both ways: What happens if you’re wrong? Aren’t you going to be disappointed when you realize that your life was a lie–wait, you can’t realize it because when you die, you’re just shut off, your consciousness is gone, there’s nothing left to say “oh crap I was wrong” and you’re just integrated into the dirt for the life that comes after you to utilize.

      How about you care about this life and not what happens after you die?

      
      
    • on January 12, 2012 at 3:56 pm | Reply Osmany Herrera

      Friend, If you are going to believe in something not because it’s true to you but because you are afraid of what may happen once you die then in fact you are looking at religion in the completely wrong way.

      Because if that’s the case then why don’t you believe in every religion?

      Shit, that sounds like a good idea. I am no longer an atheist I now believe in every religion!

      What do the rest think?

      
      
    • on January 14, 2012 at 1:04 am | Reply Skoal Man

      Ha ha hilarious! What happens if the worshipers of Zoul are correct? You and I are both screwed… moron.

      
      
    • on January 14, 2012 at 11:53 am | Reply AussieJedi

      The only reasonable explanation for the christian hatred on this page is that the Jesus these “christians” worship, is the one their egos made up.

      
      
    • on January 17, 2012 at 5:15 pm | Reply Amii Lockhart

      Ah, Pascal’s Wager. Do us all a favor and refer to Steve Ollington’s comment a few above yours, then do a little research.

      Suffice to say, the debunking of this silliness is as old as Pascal himself.

      
      
    • on January 19, 2012 at 6:07 am | Reply Deirdre

      What a righteous Christian you must be! Does your pastor know the way you witness to non-believers is by mocking them and then threatening them with eternal damnation? Gosh, you’re so tender and warm-hearted! You’re like Jesus-incarnate! LOL!!!!!!! Ha ha hilarious!!!

      If you’re going to try to pathetically defend your Christianity on a secular blog, at least have the decency to act like a Christian. Your seething, hateful comments do nothing for your cause except fuel our desire to extinguish it entirely.

      Good news we all die someday? I wouldn’t take such pompous comfort in that fact if I were you. If your god was real, you’d surely be burning in that hell you’re so quick to threaten others with.

      
      
    • on February 19, 2012 at 2:05 am | Reply mike b.

      What you are doing right there is called Pascal’s Wager. It’s flawed logic, but instead of digression, I ask that you Google atheist view of Pascal’s Wager. Besides all that, why would I want a part in any religion that causes its followers to harass a teenager? The truth is not so long ago people like Jessica and myself would be stoned, burned, tortured, etc. Reality is that this still goes on. Need proof? Google Kenya witch burn. What about the biggest con of the 20th century- Mother Theresa? Once again Google, or YouTube Christopher Hitchens. You Christians should be ashamed. Go feed some hungry people and leave this young woman alone. Bullies!

      
      
82. on January 12, 2012 at 3:12 am | Reply sam

    I think I just threw up on my.mouth a little ……dumb Bitch. I hope the haters just make you more determined Jessica….because the more you push, the shittier life you’ll have…….lol

    
    
    • on January 12, 2012 at 5:07 am | Reply Jeremy

      She’s going to have a shitty life because she proves her school is wrong and gets it corrected? Yeah, i bet she’s so depressed.

      
      
    • on January 13, 2012 at 2:14 am | Reply Sir Craig

      Wow. Hate much? Is that what your “god” intended? Go seek Phred Phelps (sic intended) and go do some more of that ol’ time religion…

      
      
    • on January 19, 2012 at 5:59 am | Reply Deirdre

      Pretty talk! And yeah, man, you’re totally right. A shitty life she’ll have! One free of religious burdens and that ridiculous, unwarranted hate that you’re so obviously full of. What a righteous Christian you must be! Does your pastor know the way you witness to non-believers is by calling them stupid bitches? So tender and warm-hearted! You’re like Jesus-incarnate!

      If you’re going to try to pathetically defend your Christianity on a secular blog, at least have the decency to act like a Christian. Your seething, hateful comments do nothing for your cause except fuel our desire to extinguish it entirely.

      This girl is far more full of heart and character than you ever will be, you ridiculous, name-calling illiterate.

      
      
83. on January 12, 2012 at 3:22 am | Reply Cody

    It’s unfortunate that atheists get to experience the uneducated rants of the religious so often that we are no longer offended by it. More unfortunate is that those who consider themselves to be good christians cannot see how vile they are.

    As for those who claim that America was based on religion, I have some bad news.
    The words “under God” were added to the pledge of allegiance in 1954. They were not added by the author.
    The same words were added to our paper money in 1957.
    Though they were found on coins since 1864 as christians love to point out.
    Alas, my favorite quote on this subject: ” As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.” The U.S. Treaty of Tripoli, 1796.

    
    
    • on January 12, 2012 at 5:33 am | Reply Jeremy

      Don’t go spouting off facts, christians hate those!

      
      
    • on February 19, 2012 at 2:13 am | Reply mike b.

      It’s true. I often just laugh. But I also find myself becoming militant. I’ve managed to sway one person to atheism this week. I’ve got another guy labeling himself a deist. I basically just point out obvious flaws in the Bible, and I give them a list of people to read and YouTube (Dawkins, Satan, Hitchens, Harris, etc). I find that if you can get someone to the edge of breaking through indoctrination, encourage them, and send them on their way, they almost always turn away from religion. Gotta love logic.

      
      
      • on February 19, 2012 at 2:14 am | Reply mike b.

        Sagan was autocorrected to Satan lol.

        
        
84. on January 12, 2012 at 3:30 am | Reply Facebook Profile Covers

    I was recommended this website through my cousin. I am no longer sure whether or not this post is written by way of him as no one else recognise such certain approximately my trouble. You are wonderful! Thanks!

    
    
85. on January 12, 2012 at 5:32 am | Reply Jeremy

    Tom, our country was founded on god? lol. Is that why half of the founding fathers were atheists and deists? Is that why the Treaty of Tripoli specifically says we are NOT a christian nation? Man, these christians don’t know anything. The laws of our country, their own book, nothing. I can’t tell you how many times i’ve given bible quotes to religious people and had them think i made it up. They literally don’t know 90% of their own book. Religious people, there’s a reason they preach to you in church and you don’t ask questions. Questions would poke a whole lot of holes in your story.

    
    
86. on January 12, 2012 at 6:45 am | Reply Mark

    Come up to Canada Jessica. We laugh at deluded little boys like Tom.

    
    
87. on January 12, 2012 at 11:34 am | Reply the worst

    YOU ARE SUCH A PIECE OF SHIT.

    
    
    • on January 12, 2012 at 12:09 pm | Reply Foxblood

      ^^^ Are you a Christian?

      
      
      • on January 14, 2012 at 1:06 am | Reply Skoal Man

        Must be one of them thar fundies WITH THE CAPS LOCK ON.

        
        
88. on January 12, 2012 at 11:36 am | Reply Kevin

    My God has blessed me with happiness and fortune. You’ve been blessed with being ugly and a knack for trolling people on internet forums. I can see why you’re angry.

    
    
    • on January 12, 2012 at 12:12 pm | Reply Foxblood

      Please describe the process of exactly “how” your god blessed you? I need a step by step process of exactly how gods bless things. I am sure you will get right on that as I would love to know. Thanks =)

      
      
    • on January 12, 2012 at 11:11 pm | Reply Maya

      The fact that you go on someone else’s website and self-righteously accuse them of trolling should be the new standard definition of hypocrisy.

      When your argument is “You’re ugly and God likes me better,” you know it is time to go home.

      
      
    • on January 13, 2012 at 2:12 am | Reply Sir Craig

      The perfect 7-year old’s response. Gotta love that Xtian “love”.

      
      
    • on January 14, 2012 at 1:15 am | Reply Skoal Man

      Kevin, you’re the type of sanctimonious troll for Jebus that thanks God for blessing you with an awesome parking space while literally millions of starving children are wondering why God hasn’t blessed them with a proper meal, aren’t you?

      
      
    • on January 18, 2012 at 12:29 am | Reply SteveInCO

      Ugly she ain’t.

      And it’s hard to troll one’s own blog.

      You are both blind and stupid.

      
      
89. on January 12, 2012 at 2:56 pm | Reply Howard

    LOL youtube comments. Don’t care about these ignorant fucks Jessica. You did the right thing and they hate you for it. They hate seeing justice happening. Thank goodness there are people like you who stand up for what’s right.

    
    
90. on January 12, 2012 at 3:40 pm | Reply Osmany Herrera

    The ignorance in people will not allow it. But in the future you can look back and think of the difference that you have made.

    Thank you.

    I was in the military and I am proud when beliefs are stood for. Especially Atheism.

    We all stand together in this fight.

    Again, Thank you.

    
    
91. on January 12, 2012 at 3:42 pm | Reply Osmany Herrera

    And if you’d like to discuss anything I’d be open to it.

    I can’t wait to share the power to fight for ideals that I regard I deserve.

    “Live long and prosper” LMFAO

    
    
92. on January 12, 2012 at 7:45 pm | Reply Jessica ahlquist

    Hey, I think your really dumb and your gonna raise everyone’s taxes. Screw you

    
    
    • on January 13, 2012 at 2:11 am | Reply Sir Craig

      I’m guessing this is a not-too-terribly bright troll.

      
      
      • on January 25, 2012 at 12:12 pm | Reply Jessica Ahlquist

        No, I now see the light of Jesus. My Lord has saved me, and I now repent the errors of my previous Way.

        
        
93. on January 12, 2012 at 8:02 pm | Reply kevin stevens

    Sad that the views of one poor little child exceed the views of the majority. If you do not like the color red do not wear it, but do not tell me to take it off because you do not like it.

    
    
    • on January 12, 2012 at 11:06 pm | Reply Maya

      The majority doesn’t get to decide what is constitutional and what is not. That is why we have a judicial branch. If the majority doesn’t like the Establishment Clause, then they should petition their Congressmen to have the First Amendment repealed.

      No one is telling you to “take it off.” This isn’t something of yours, it is something owned presumably by the school district. If you want, you can put this prayer or any other on a shirt and wear it all day, every day. That is your constitutionally guaranteed right. However, the public school is an extension of the state (as it is financed by public funds) and the state is not permitted to endorse religion. This prayer doesn’t even past the dubious test of “ceremonial deism.” It specifically refers to “Heavenly Father” and uses the word “amen,” both of which are used exclusively by Christians. In displaying such a thing, the school (and therefore the state) is implicitly supporting Christianity in violation of the First Amendment. What is “sad” is that I even have to explain any of this to you. Your own school must have been very inept indeed to omit this from your education.

      
      
      • on January 16, 2012 at 1:22 pm | Reply Boko999

        Just a heads up. IIRC “amen” is used in judaism. christianity, and islam. Otherwise, a most excellent response.

        And, thanks for all you have done, Ms. Ahlquist.

        
        
    • on January 17, 2012 at 5:26 pm | Reply Amii Lockhart

      Oh Kevin….sigh.

      
      
    • on January 17, 2012 at 8:34 pm | Reply Eric Paulsen

      When “one little child” is in the right then it only takes one, your numbers be damned. This is a matter of law not of popularity.

      
      
94. on January 12, 2012 at 8:26 pm | Reply jeff

    Well, seeing how you are “Offend” by religious statements, maybe you should give up all money, and live homeless, it seems that when it comes to money you are not so offened by the words “in God we Trust” you’re just another sad lonely person wanting attention and trying to ruin the religious aspect of this country, maybe i should sue you as i’m offend by not being able to reflect on my religious beliefs in public, that violates my rights

    
    
    • on January 12, 2012 at 11:08 pm | Reply Maya

      No one is telling you that you can’t reflect on your religious beliefs. That is ridiculous. Why should you need a state-sponsored banner to reflect on your religious reliefs? Do you have a problem remembering them or something? Perhaps you should try Post-Its instead of insisting that the First Amendment should be violated.

      
      
    • on January 13, 2012 at 2:07 am | Reply Sir Craig

      And you, Kevin, are a sad little troll who clearly couldn’t make a cogent argument if you tried your absolute hardest. Mob rules works only for those who cannot or will not think for themselves.

      
      
      • on January 13, 2012 at 2:10 am | Reply Sir Craig

        Oops, my bad. Should have showed up on the comment before this one. However, Jeff, your “argument” is worse than lame. And sorry, your rights in regards to religious beliefs have never been curtailed, only kept in constitutional check.

        
        
95. on January 13, 2012 at 1:05 am | Reply Why this blog? « juviphobia

    [...] herself has been the recipient of online harassment–granted, incompetent harassment, as one harasser sent her parody videos in support of [...]

    
    
96. on January 13, 2012 at 4:54 am | Reply Paula

    Hi Jessica,

    While I do have certain religious beliefs, they are private and personal. I support your actions fully and hope that you don’t dwell on the negative responses. Maybe your life will quiet back down soon, and you can go back to a more normal teenage life. I have the utmost respect for you and wish you the best.

    Paula

    
    
97. on January 13, 2012 at 8:17 am | Reply Doug

    GOD <3

    
    
98. on January 13, 2012 at 8:18 am | Reply Alfred

    Our Heavenly Father !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (: :O >:)

    
    
    • on January 14, 2012 at 1:22 am | Reply Skoal Man

      …who according to the thoroughly disgusting bible has killed billions of people, or allowed other people to kill billions (including innocent children) in his name.

      If your “Heavenly Father” were a real person, he’d be serving the first of a gazzilion consecutive sentences for crimes against humanity.

      
      
    • on January 25, 2012 at 12:19 pm | Reply Jessica Ahlquist

      AWWWWWWWWWWW YEEEEAAAAAAHHHHHHH

      
      
      • on February 27, 2012 at 3:16 pm | Reply Anonymous

        Atheism is so stupid! Just be at peace with all us catholics and stop opposing us! And Jessica Alquist, stop being such a retard! What did the banner do to you? Huh? Just don’t look at it and ignore it! But oh no, you have to make a big deal with the news because you and your dad are such narsisists! Good day to all you christians and bad day all you extreme atheists, like you Skoal Man!

        
        
99. on January 13, 2012 at 8:21 am | Reply GOD

    I dissaprove

    
    
    • on January 18, 2012 at 10:24 am | Reply Drakk

      GOD,
      I am dissapoint.

      
      
    • on January 29, 2012 at 11:10 pm | Reply SteveInCO

      Why did you mess this place up so much?

      
      
100. on January 13, 2012 at 8:22 am | Reply Jesus Christ

     My father our lord wont be very pleased to hear about this litttle girly. \
     Amen, blessing J.C

     
     
     • on January 14, 2012 at 1:30 am | Reply Skoal Man

       His holy noodleness, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, isn’t very pleased to read your comment. Repent now before it’s too late and he drowns you in his hot delicious tomato sauce!

       Ramen!

       
       
101. on January 13, 2012 at 8:22 am | Reply Johann Geutenburg

     i think your going to h, e, double hockey stick … uh.

     
     
102. on January 13, 2012 at 8:25 am | Reply Morgan Freeman

     Our heavenly father, I believe that you need to respect our beliefs as well. We all live in this world together but with you here the world just sucked a little more. Atheists (mainly you suck) and i believe that we need you to go to the auditorium and pray for yourself.
     Amen, M.F GOD BLESS AMERICA.<33333333333

     
     
     • on January 13, 2012 at 8:27 am | Reply GOD

       You are blessed my sweet child, keep fighting the good fight

       
       
       • on January 13, 2012 at 8:28 am | Reply Morgan Freeman

         Thank you heavenly lord I am blessed to hear from you
         Amen

         
         
103. on January 13, 2012 at 8:27 am | Reply Bernard

     God bless you…

     …I firgured you sneezed today

     
     
     • on January 13, 2012 at 8:30 am | Reply Teddy T Jack

       thnks! i did

       
       
104. on January 13, 2012 at 8:29 am | Reply Teddy T Jack

     do atheists turn into Ficus trees?

     ^^dane cook reference

     
     
     • on January 14, 2012 at 1:24 am | Reply Skoal Man

       Has Dane Cook ever come up with an original bit?

       
       
105. on January 13, 2012 at 8:30 am | Reply Beetlejuice

     vagina

     
     
106. on January 13, 2012 at 8:30 am | Reply josh

     http://twitter.com/jesus

     
     
107. on January 13, 2012 at 8:35 am | Reply Peter Griffen

     “When I stood up to speak, I announced that I was an atheist and understood that the prayer discriminated against me (as well as others, obviously) and violated my rights.”
     Reall how does it discriminate against you? its your fucking choice to not follow or support a religion. so it doesnt ” discriminate” you becuase you dont like what it says. How about you go an actually think about what your fighting for because I think u missed something
     AMen

     
     
     • on January 26, 2012 at 4:31 pm | Reply Billy Tafoya

       Lol at using the name Peter Griffen. Seth Mcfarlane is and atheist.

       
       
       • on January 27, 2012 at 12:13 pm | Reply Michelle Tafoya

         S.M is and atheist. LOL

         
         
         • on January 30, 2012 at 8:56 pm | Reply Billy Tafoya

           Oh no! An error. Thanks grammar Natzi!

           
           
108. on January 13, 2012 at 8:35 am | Reply LorettaS

     okay… the banner makes sence a little…. but, your gonna tell us how to pray?
     what to pray too?
     like blink-182 says..
     NANANANANANANANANANA
     NO.
     ill pray how i want,
     when i want
     where i want
     and to whom ever i want too.
     As respected.. if we want to MUMBLE… let us mumble..
     and your gonna try to get people in trouble like teachers for talking about it??
     what about the 1st amemdment again????
     YAH thats right they can talk about whatever they want.

     
     
     • on January 14, 2012 at 10:17 am | Reply Drew

       No one is telling you who to pray to, how to pray, when to pray and whatnot.

       We are saying that not everyone prays and that to hold prayer in a group at a government school and to have a banner advocating prayer and that to only one of the deities out there is constitutionally wrong.

       Instead of feeling that your rights are being taken away, why don’t you put yourself in someone elses shoes and understand that you are trampling all over their rights.

       
       
109. on January 13, 2012 at 8:57 am | Reply Hagbard Celine

     I will just say to all the “religious” people, that you are an embarrassment to the religions you claim to defend. Do you really think your gods want you to disrespect people left and right like your doing this girl right now?
     Also, to the atheist here, I must leave a message, don’t spend your energy on these fights, because it will only stress you out. Instead, live the change you want to create. I would have put up my own banner. I mean, girl, you did it right, our constitution is important to uphold. I would have done it another way. And, to the people claiming that the kids in Cranston West are Christians, hell no, you must be out of your mind, they are all spoiled rich kids, and we all know spoiled rich kids don’t give a damn about god, they worship coke and go to church by having hooky parties. Jessica, your vindicated though, you defended the constitution, and I took an oath to defend it a long time ago, so I’m very appreciative of your effort.

     
     
110. on January 13, 2012 at 10:20 am | Reply Love

     I am Christian and a firm believer in God. I will not bash you, judge you or anything like that, even with how angry I am with what you are doing. You think you’re right and that’s perfectly fine, we can all have our opinions. But in the end which NOONE really knows the truth too, when we do find out what happen… I’ll be there to say I told you so. You believe that this is “silly” and when you say that you are mocking our religions all of them. You had no right to say things like that, and I feel bad for you. I really do. Hopefully you can redeem yourself one day.

     
     
     • on January 13, 2012 at 11:13 am | Reply Ryn

       Hb no…..

       
       
     • on January 17, 2012 at 5:34 pm | Reply Amii Lockhart

       “But in the end which NOONE really knows the truth too.”

       That is EXACTLY why it is so important that no one religion, or lack thereof, should be held above another by the government. So important, that it’s protected in the Constitution.

       
       
     • on February 19, 2012 at 2:22 am | Reply mike b.

       You say you are a Christian and a firm believer in god, yet you go on to say no one knows the truth? Wat? So you just kinda sorta believe or are you just blowing smoke up my arse?

       
       
111. on January 13, 2012 at 11:56 am | Reply derwood

     I like this guy’s favorite quote…

     http://en-gb.facebook.com/people/Michael-Shaghalian/1411162101

     More of that Christian love we hear so much about…

     
     
112. on January 13, 2012 at 12:52 pm | Reply Joseph Auburn

     By reading all of your ranting and raving against Christians, I assume you must be jewish. Most “Atheists” are (i.e., Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens, Bill Maher, Steven Pinker, et. al.) Why does Judaism and Atheism go hand in hand? Just like Communism, Pornography, and International Finance, jews seem to be unusually overrrepresented in the atheist movement, I’ll let you draw your own conclusions, Jessica.

     
     
     • on January 14, 2012 at 12:37 am | Reply Skoal Man

       “By reading all of your ranting and raving against Christians, I assume you must be jewish. Most Atheists’ are (i.e., Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens, Bill Maher, Steven Pinker, et. al.) Why does Judaism and Atheism go hand in hand? Just like Communism, Pornography, and International Finance, jews seem to be unusually overrrepresented in the atheist movement, I’ll let you draw your own conclusions, Jessica.”

       -Joseph Auburn

       You assume too much, and you use a selective set in order to present information primarily to influence an audience towards the the ridiculous conclusion that Jews and atheists are all communists, pornographers, and so forth. You comment is as inane as you are transparent. Hows that for a conclusion, BIGOT?

       
       
     • on January 17, 2012 at 5:36 pm | Reply Amii Lockhart

       I conclude you are a numbskull.

       
       
     • on February 12, 2012 at 9:25 pm | Reply Albert Vargenstein

       You sir, are a douche bag. An anti Semitic douche bag to be sure. Feel a bit threatened do we?

       Maybe more atheists are Jews because the Jews are smarter than everyone else. You think a dummy could control all of the worlds financial institutions and rig the NBA playoffs the way that we do? (Plus we own the music and movie industries as well as a major stake in the crashed spaceship down in Roswell.) Now you know. Watch you back. And please…capitalize “Jews.” Would it kill you to have a little respect?

       
       
       • on February 12, 2012 at 9:46 pm | Reply Rob

         “Maybe more atheists are Jews because the Jews are smarter than everyone else.”

         Firstly, you mean to say many jews are atheists, the majority of atheists are certainly not jews. As for jews being smarter than everyone else, lol, how do you account for ben stein? Jews are generally just good communicators/negotiators, not intelligent.

         And why capitalize jews, I fail to see why the name deserves respect? Oh, that reminds me, jews also correct people on their grammar when it is completely unnecessary.

         
         
         • on February 13, 2012 at 5:46 pm | Reply Albert Vargenstein

           The comma after “Oh” was completely unnecessary.

           
           
           • on February 13, 2012 at 8:44 pm Rob

             lol jews are hilarious

             
             
113. on January 13, 2012 at 1:11 pm | Reply Mo Allen

     You are the most awesomist person on the planet.

     
     
114. on January 13, 2012 at 1:58 pm | Reply Jenae Ash

     You are the bravest person I know. You’re my role model. Congratulations on your victory!!

     
     
115. on January 13, 2012 at 2:17 pm | Reply Johana Samayoa

     All the power to you, Jessica.
     Anyone saying you’re going to hell is fine ignorant. Not only does it not apply to you because you don’t believe in it, just because they do doesn’t mean it’s real.

     
     
116. on January 13, 2012 at 2:39 pm | Reply GabrielChristos

     Christian love? Who gives a damn? You atheists aren’t perfect and Hitler and Stalin are proof of that and before one of you poor fools comes and says that Hitler was atheist, I suggest you read The Hitler Table Talk where he attacks Christianity YEARS after praising it. Evidently, he has converted to atheism.

     http://atheismandevolutiondisproven.blogspot.com/

     I created this blog in reply to some girl who got prayer banned from her school. She then started boasting on Twitter about how awesome she, atheism and her evolution was. This blog not only humiliates and destroys atheism but it also debunks evolution and proves that The Bible has outside sources which back it.

     Let us begin with debunking the evolution theory:

     Question 1:

     Are there any fossils showing the evolutionary process of ape to man?

     Answer:

     No. No such fossils exist. No fossils exist showing the evolutionary process of ape to man, no fossils exist showing the evolutionary process of dinosaur to mammal and no fossils exist showing the evolutionary process of dinosaur to bird (yes, there is the dinosaur bird – Archaeopteryx – but that’s exactly what it is – a dinosaur bird and nothing more which is why there are no fossils showing the evolutionary process of it.).

     Darwin himself stated that the biggest argument against his theory would be a lack of transitional fossils which he predicted would be found very shortly. More than a century later and we are still lacking transitional fossils because they don’t exist. If evolution were true, MILLIONS of transitional fossils would exist but none do.

     Question 2:

     Okay. So no fossils exist but evidence has shown that we have evolved from groups of apes from all around the world.

     Answer:

     Nope! Eve is the ancestor of all female humans and science even supports this. Science claims that all females can trace their ancestry back to one woman. Where science has got it wrong is where they claim Eve was not the first woman and they call her Mitochondrial Eve. Science says that all women can trace their ancestry back to her but that she didn’t exist at the same time as Y-Chromosome Adam whom all males can trace their ancestry back to. It seems as though science is now saying that it’s possible that we can all trace ancestry back to one man and one woman and this supports the Genesis account of the origin of mankind. Is it a coincidence that The Bible says that everyone can track their ancestors back to Adam and Eve (one woman and man) and now science almost says the same? No, it’s not a coincidence. Science has got it slightly wrong but it’s now supporting what skeptics had previously thought impossible.

     No, mankind never came from simply Adam and Eve but THEY were the first humans created. Other humans were created which is why Cain speaks about them when he is exiled from the land of his parents after his kills his brother. He tells God that “others might try to kill him” and God puts a curse on him to prevent this.

     The reason why everyone can trace ancestry back to Adam and Eve is because everyone shares ancestry with Noah. Every other human died out during the flood (which all cultures and beliefs speak of) save for Noah’s children and their spouses who came from families from all over the world but since their children have Noah’s blood, they have Adam and Eve’s blood and thus all decedents from them have Adam and Eve’s blood.

     Question 3:

     Okay. So no fossils exist and we can trace ancestry back to one woman and man. What about the DNA linking us to ape with 98% of our DNA matching theirs?

     Answer:

     Sorry evolutionists, scientists identified some 40 million differences among the three billion DNA molecules, or nucleotides, in each genome of human and chimp/ape which separates us MASSIVELY from chimps and apes. 40 million differences makes us completely different from chimps and shows we aren’t a higher form of ape and that our DNA do not match theirs. Science has proved itself that we don’t share 98% DNA with apes.

     Further more, scientists once said that we share 99% of our DNA with mouses. We know that’s a lie for obvious reasons. Remember evolutionists, science isn’t always right and it makes mistakes.

     Question 4:

     Okay. So no fossils exist, we can trace our ancestry back to one woman and man and our DNA doesn’t match the ape’s DNA but why do some animals look the same?

     Answer:

     Animals don’t share the same common ancestors. They share the same creator who created every animal with the same blueprint. There is, however, one discovery that appears to make the evolutionary view of descent from a common ancestor look illogical and flawed. This discovery is that structures that appear homologous often develop under the control of genes that are not homologous. If the structures evolved from the same source, you would expect the same genes to make the structures. The fact that these structures are similar (or homologous) is apparent, but the reason is not because of Darwinian evolution. It is more logical and reasonable to believe in a common Creator rather than a common ancestor.

     Question 5:

     Okay. So no fossils exist, we can trace our ancestry back to one woman and man and our DNA doesn’t match the ape’s DNA and animals don’t share the same ancestor but how does God exist? I’d still rather believe that we are just random accidents because it makes me feel good about myself.

     Answer:

     How does God exist? Well let’s look at the human body firstly:

     We have the human circulatory system which is a very good example of design. Not only does it function very well but it also shows design and a complex structure that only an intelligent being could creation. Next we have the heart pumping blood throughout the body, the lungs which breath in oxygen and release the oxygen and then we have the human body with two matching eyes/ears/eyebrows/nostrils on each level of each other and then we have the perfect structure of the teeth. That’s no random accident, this would describe random:

     shgery8nhiwms,
     gmjeoj
     dfnmjloms,dpfogmmlm,dp.c
     erjndfiods

     jdiojojdpskj
     #dnhj
     wjkio]jowked,lc;x
     emsole-=
     d
     dj
     0ie0ek,;d,sdmks,,s

     wjieudjk93u9d
     jdjdk
     d
     d
     dj
     -o-2

     j0swopw[p

     j0iwsijidj
     kjfojprk0rper
     r
     ee
     wqwpowplq
     wpwwk
     w
     wkw-w0owiool

     oododood

     kjk
     jj
     jh

     Nothing matches, nothing shows design, nothing shows thought, that’s random and the universe and the human body is nothing like that, the human body and universe show thought. Thought and design CANNOT come from chaos. Logic argues against this. Thought and design all come from an intelligent mind. Think of one explanation where design comes from chaos. You cannot. Bombs do not produce vast cities just as throwing a brick at a wall won’t produce anything that shows order. For atheism to be true, design and order would have to come from chaos which comes from nothing. You wouldn’t attribute a computer to chaos or nothingness, so don’t attribute the butterfly or universe to nothingness, both share the same creator…GOD!

     Evolution is just a shield for those that are scared of God and truth. It’s called a theory for a reason.

     Symmetry further proves the existence of God because it shows that a force that could see was behind creation. Evolution is an unconscious force that doesn’t think, if it was real, there would be no such thing as symmetry because it can’t see to produce such designs twice just as it can’t smell to give creatures noses. Yes, ask yourself evolutionists, how did creatures evolve noses? Smells cannot be detected by feeling or sight can they? How did animals evolve wings? Did they just start jumping about randomly until they evolved wings one day? How silly to believe such!

     The fact that we observe intelligence in animals along with patterns of behavior that appeared passed down from their parents shows that an intelligent mind was behind design. Everything in the universe and on this world is balanced. We observe recycling (life in death) in nature for instance. Balance could not exist unless a mind was behind this universe.

     Without an intelligent mind to put everything into order, there would only be chaos and we do NOT observe such in the universe.

     Atheism is the belief that the universe came from nothing. So how could nothing place everything into order? How could nothing appoint gravity to hold everything together? How could nothing form the universe into a way in which we could study it and learn about it? How could nothing give us the needed resources to build whatever we want? How could nothing give us all the plants and resources needed to cure illnesses?

     Atheism is senseless and don’t just take my word for it, even Sir Issac Newton – author of the most influential science book ever – said as much!

     Want proof that The Bible is authentic to history? Well, here is a list of some artifacts which support many of the events mentioned in The Bible:

     The Black Obelisk of Shalmaneser III, shows the Biblical Jehu, king of Israel. It describes how Jehu brought or sent his tribute in or around 841 BCE.

     The Nabonidus Cylinder proves Belshazzar’s existence; Belshazzar was a king of Babylon and he is mentioned in The Book Of Daniel in The Bible. The Nabonidus Cylinder proves Belshazzar did indeed exist. This gives evidence that The Book Of Daniel is historically correct.

     The Shishaq Relief is a series of inscriptions recounting pharaoh Shishaq’s invasion of Judah and Israel in 925 BC. When the king of Egypt laid siege to Jerusalem, Rehoboam gave him all of the treasures out of the temple as a tribute. This is recorded here.

     Further evidence that The Bible is correct is that Sennacherib’s Prism, details the events of Sennacherib’s campaign against Judah which is mentioned in The Bible as well. Sennacherib’s campaign against Judah
     is described in great detail in The Bible. To bring together the biblical account and the records of the Assyrian emperor shows vindication of the Bible as historical fact.

     More Artifacts That You Should Research About, Which Prove That The Bible is Historically Correct:

     Amarna letters (c. 1300s BC) – correspondence on clay tablets between the Egyptian administration and various Middle East kings petty sub-rulers in Canaan during the New Kingdom.

     Arch of Titus – (c. 82 AD) This relief shows spoils from the sack of Jerusalem by the Romans in 70 AD. Depicted are the menorah and trumpets, as well as what might be the Table of Showbread.

     Babylonian Chronicles (c. 747 BC – 247 BC) – This deals with Nebuchadnezzar’s siege of Jerusalem, etc. Read the books of Zedekiah and Book of Kings, Book of Jeremiah, Lamentations.

     Balaam inscription (c. 840-760 BC) 9th or 8th century BC inscription about the prophet named Balaam from The Book of Numbers.

     Bulla of Jehucal – son of Shelemiah, son of Shevi. This person is mentioned in the Book of Jeremiah who thus presumably lived in the late 7th century BC (i.e. at about the same time as Jeremiah).

     Cylinder of Cyrus (c. 559 BC-530 BC) – This regards King Cyrus’s treatment of religion, which is significant to the books of Chronicles, Ezra and Nehemiah.

     Deluge Tablet – The Epic of Gilgamesh records a Babylonian flood story; this connects to Genesis and gives evidence that it is historically correct.

     Bubastis portal – showing a series of inscriptions recounting pharaoh Shishaq’s invasion of Judah and Israel in 925 BC, located outside the Temple of Amun at Karnak.(1 Kings 14:25; 2 Chronicles 12:1-12).

     Ipuwer Papyrus (c. 13th century BC) – ancient papyrus manuscript describing Egypt as afflicted by natural disasters and in a state of chaos. Statements such as “the River is blood” can be interpreted as an Egyptian account of the Plagues of Egypt described in the Book of Exodus in the Bible.

     Susa remains – Susa is mentioned in the Ketuvim of the Hebrew Bible, mainly in Esther, but also once each in Nehemiah and Daniel. Both Daniel and Nehemiah lived in Susa during the Babylonian captivity of Judah of the 6th century BC. Esther became queen there, and saved the Jews from genocide. A tomb presumed to be that of Daniel is located in the area, known as Shush-Daniel. The tomb is marked by an unusual white, stone cone, which is neither regular nor symmetric.

     Taylor Prism – a clay prism inscribed with the annals of the Assyrian king Sennacherib notable for describing his siege of Jerusalem in 701 BC during the reign of king Hezekiah. This event is recorded in several books contained in Bible including Isaiah chapters 33 and 36; 2 Kings 18:17; 2 Chronicles 32:9. This event is also recorded by Herodotus.

     These artifacts show The Bible is historically correct. Many ask for outside evidence to prove that events in The Bible were indeed real and here you have them. Christians don’t follow The Bible due to blind faith, archaeology has proven that many of the events did happen and logic supports the existence of a God who designed this beautiful universe.

     It is an insult to believe that this universe came from nothing. Atheists like to boast about how much they know about science but in reality, they know nothing about science otherwise they wouldn’t be illogical enough to attribute creation to nothing. It’s more logical to believe we were created and design than the theory that we were random accidents. Maybe atheists are happy to believe the universe was a random accident and that life was too and maybe they are happy to believe they came from apes which eat their own excrement but logic argues against their fairy tale theory.

     We were designed and created. God is real. Get over it atheists.

     Good day.

     
     
     • on January 14, 2012 at 2:02 am | Reply Mr. Pete

       Man, you are ranting and raving. Take a breath and relax a bit.

       
       
     • on January 14, 2012 at 10:14 am | Reply Drew

       Your verbal throw-up doesn’t at all prove the existence of a god. Not even a little. You can’t prove god exists or doesn’t exist by verbal theatrics.

       I will tell you that your science is flawed. The one thing I will point out is that our DNA is 98% close to the great ape and 92% close to chimps. So saying that our dna shows that we are a created by a god is not proof at all.

       The only proof that atheist want and the only proof that you cannot show is god. Show us god. Not supposed evidence that you can say came from a god, but the one and only god.

       You can’t, so until you can, stop saying that we are ignorant. We won’t believe until we have verifiable proof.

       And ps…you do know that Evolution and Atheism are two different things right? There are religious folk out there that believe in evolution because of the proof that it has shown. Just FYI.

       
       
     • on January 17, 2012 at 12:48 pm | Reply ManhattanMC

       We heard you the first time. Google ‘argumentum ad nauseum’. Repeating your nonsense isn’t going to make it true.

       
       
     • on January 17, 2012 at 5:44 pm | Reply Amii Lockhart

       Since you see fit to copy paste this claptrap, I will just copy paste Kevin’s excellent take-down:

       Kevin
       Allow me to retort.

       Your first question reads “Are there any fossils showing the evolutionary process of ape to man?”

       First, I raise an objection to the question as stated. Under modern evolutionary theory, apes and humans would have evolved from a species, but humans would not have evolved from modern apes. With that clarified, there are fossils of Homo erectus, Homo neanderthalensis, Homo heidelbergensis, and other species from different time periods which paint a distinct picture in favor of evolution. Second, not that many fossils of large species exist in the first place because of the extremely specific circumstances in which they are preserved.

       Your second ‘question’ is “Okay. So no fossils exist but evidence has shown that we have evolved from groups of apes from all around the world.”

       First, this should probably be a question instead of a statement. Second, the statement above isn’t a theory supported by evolution. Third, the theory of chromosomal Adam and mitochondrial Eve is a reason why evolution is true. If genetic mutations (evolution) do not take place and everyone had the same common original ancestors, it’s impossible to have different races or the enormous variety of current genetic conditions.

       The third question is the following: “Okay. So no fossils exist and we can trace ancestry back to one woman and man. What about the DNA linking us to ape with 98% of our DNA matching theirs?”

       The current percentage similarity between modern man and chimpanzees is approximately 95% after accounting for things knowingly absent from the older number. This is still a good reason to suggest a common ancestor further back than previously thought.

       The fourth answer simply misrepresents evolution. Evolution is based on genetic mutation; it’s extremely unlikely that the same gene mutated from one ancestor species to two current species identically. If same parts of the genome mutated between species every time, that would be substantial evidence to suggest a divine designer since it would indicate a higher power of order than what currently exists.

       The fifth answer suffers from a severe case of confirmation bias. Facial and body hair for men serves no function on a modern man but would have in past iterations within the genus (to keep warm). For men as well, mammary glands serve no purpose while in other species under our genus men had mammary glands that produced milk. Additionally evolution provides a perfectly valid explanation for our current advantages. Species gain a wide variety of genetic mutations. The ones that provide the species with an advantage survive. Those disadvantaged die off. Second, those characters weren’t random. That’s easy enough to tell if you look at a keyboard, but unless it’s randomly generated, don’t claim it is.

       Next, you claim that there must be some design because the advantages we currently have aren’t possible in randomness. First, the universe is bigger than it is possible to understand. To look around and claim that the area you are in must have been designed ignores the 99.9999999999999999999999999% of absolute nonsense elsewhere. Statistically speaking, if an infinite number of monkeys have infinite time to write on a typewriter randomly, one is guaranteed to reproduce Shakespeare. This doesn’t mean that there was some intelligent design behind Shakespeare; merely that the vastness of randomness is great.

       You also state “Evolution is just a shield for those that are scared of God and truth. It’s called a theory for a reason.” This is plainly ignorant. The Catholic Church has stated that evolution is not competitive with Catholicism.

       Next you mention symmetry. Humans are asymmetric. This can easily be demonstrated if you take a picture of half your face and use software to mirror image it. Trust me, you’ll look substantially different if you do this. Additionally modern understanding of the universe is that it is asymmetric. Finally on this point, balance and cycles aren’t proof that God exists. “Things are; therefore God” ignores the possibility that other systems without the cycles or balance in nature could exist.

       Next you ask how animals evolved wings. It didn’t happen the way you described, but that also isn’t evolution. Evolution doesn’t claim that an organism can jump to get it’s wings. It would be genetic variance from a species that already had traits assisting flight.

       Next you claim animals have intelligence; it means they must have been designed. If animals were designed for human purposes (milk, meat, etc.) a designer would make them dumber to be more easily exploited, not smarter. Intelligence assists in a species survival, which means it can pass on traits to it’s offspring.

       The last paragraph before all of the Biblical listings relies on an inverted burden of proof. To provide an absurdist analogy: How can you proof Zeus did not create the world as it exists today? How do you know unicorns do not fly around in only places people and their machinations cannot observe? Demonstrate thoroughly that Helios does not carry the sun up every day. NONE of these cases can be proven, yet I doubt you believe in Zeus, Unicorns, and Helios. The problem lies in the question, not those stuck with the impossible burden.

       
       
     • on February 24, 2012 at 3:18 pm | Reply Don

       Typical Christian bullshit. Bend and twist the truth until it suits you.

       
       
117. on January 13, 2012 at 3:04 pm | Reply ultraDuster

     GabrielChristos,

     Your entire argument fell apart as soon as you pulled out the bible as proof.

     Theists do harm to their argument by arguing rationally in favor of “god” as a means to prove their bible is correct.

     Atheists do harm to their argument by dismantling the bible in order to disprove the existence of god.

     Both of you are brain dead animals.

     Get a clue people – evolution is real and so is god.
     No matter how chaotic or not you are able to prove the universe is or is not…there is only one missing component – motion. Motion cannot come from nothing.
     Even if you were able to scientifically prove that all matter that exists or has ever existed came from one molecule that has always existed – nothing accounts for motion.

     It is entirely possible that there was/is an intelligent being that simply set it all into motion and this being, we can call whatever the F you want.

     
     
     • on January 14, 2012 at 10:06 am | Reply Drew

       If god is real….show me proof. If you can’t show me solid evidence for the existance of god than you are working on faith. Faith without evidence is stupidity. Oh, wait…faith with evidence wouldn’t be called faith.

       Until god is shown, I will have “faith” in the things that I have evidence for…which is not faith at all.

       You can hope there is a deity out there, or Santa, or unicorns for all that matters. But if you want to hang a display in a government school for ALL students than I would suggest that you leave the religion at the door.

       
       
118. on January 13, 2012 at 5:49 pm | Reply Jonathan

     ultraDuster,

     The next obvious question would be that of God’s origin. If as I suspect you have no answer for this, then you are merely substituting one unexplainable thing with another. Sometimes the best we can do is to be honest and admit that we simply do not know.

     I consider myself an atheist, but freely admit that I have no answers when it comes to understanding the fundamental nature of reality.

     
     
119. on January 13, 2012 at 7:36 pm | Reply Casey

     Stay tough Jessica. We are nonbelievers and we are many. Just know, you are correct about people being afraid to stand up and defend you. For many, there are very real repercussions for speaking out against the foolishness of religion. Or, like me, the argument is just so tired that we stay in the background and help our younger people, the champions of logic, reason and science with whatever we can. For now, keep up the good fight, you have many fans here. Cheers girl.

     
     
120. on January 13, 2012 at 7:36 pm | Reply Damon

     Jessica is not bashing Christians because they are Christians; she is underlining the hypocrisy of the hate she has received from her peers who happen to “practice” christianity–a religion that champions acceptance and respect. In spite of all the criticism, she has remained cordial and very much mature.

     I do not believe you could possibly speak for all the students–as well as all the future students at West–when you say the banner will only be offensive to her. Even if the majority of the students were in favor of the banner, their decision is invalid because the bottom line is that the school is a public school and thereby funded by the government. By endorsing a religious prayer, they are in a direct violation of separation of church and state.

     In addition, the students’ right to freedom of speech is in no way violated, as the students still have the right to pronounce their religion to his/her heart’s content. I think this is where you are misunderstanding: the absence of the prayer banner does not equate to the presence of pro-atheist agenda. I applaud Jessica Alhquist for not looking the other way, and for voicing an issue that is in clear violation of the laws of a nation founded on freedom and secularism. I wish all my peers could be as open-minded and as intelligent as she.

     
     
121. on January 13, 2012 at 9:48 pm | Reply Meghan Lodge

     So…I got bored and quit reading not far after the banana part…but I’ll say this.

     I’m not an Atheist. I believe in a spiritual realm, but I do not claim to know what happens when you die. I like to think the soul lives on, whether in another being or what I do not know. I do know that my body will become fertilizer for the earth to grow.

     I believe there is a higher being, and I believe that being is in everything around us. I also believe in evolution. People say there is no proof…HA, look at old yearbooks from the 50s-70s to now and tell me we don’t evolve! LOL (Seriously though, check out some of those noses and brow bones.)

     I was raised in a church as a preacher’s daughter…but I can honestly say that “Bible thumpers” piss me the heck off. They run around with a man-written book, claiming it to be THE word, though it’s full of rape, incest, murder, etc…and yet they’ll shun you if you don’t believe like them and/or refuse to listen to them. They’ll be at the parties you’re at on the weekends, but they’re probably behaving a lot worse than you, getting in petty fist fights and cursing people out…yet it all goes away on Sunday morning when they sit on that pew.

     Though I don’t share your beliefs, Jessica, I support you for being brave enough to face the world for them.

     
     
122. on January 13, 2012 at 9:51 pm | Reply Jennifer

     Jessica, I am Christian and I support you. I believe in a god that gave us free will. He is also a god of love. It saddens me that the loudest “Christians” are also the most ignorant. I do not wish to debate beliefs and proof thereof. I just hope you understand that all Christians are not so hateful and judgemental. Stand up for what you believe.

     
     
123. on January 14, 2012 at 12:09 am | Reply scott

     Great Job! This country needs more people who are willing to stand up for their Constitutional rights, no matter how unpopular.

     
     
124. on January 14, 2012 at 12:24 am | Reply Skoal Man

     Hilarious how tools like Tom Bauman have such a delusional sense of intelligence when they consistently commit a whole slew of logical fallacies. Did this dimwit say that he wanted to join a debate team and go to law school? o.O

     
     
     • on January 17, 2012 at 5:51 pm | Reply Amii Lockhart

       Yes he did. Be afraid.

       
       
125. on January 14, 2012 at 12:26 am | Reply Times

     Jess,

     What you felt when you saw that banner prayer up is the same way those with a religion feels when you tore that banner down.

     This entire ordeal is very sad to say the least. This essentially tore people apart, and is creating hurtful arguments.

     We live in a country of religious tolerance. And this situation reflects the opposite: *suing* because of a simple prayer banner shows intolerance.

     
     
     • on January 14, 2012 at 1:47 am | Reply Skoal Man

       It’s a matter of *principle*. The separation of Church and State to be exact, which is meant to protect religious liberty. Religious tolerance DOES NOT equate to singling out one religious perspective over another, which posting the banner certainly does.

       You know, our nation once fought among itself over the issues of slavery, and equal rights for women and people of a different colored skin. These ordeals were very sad too; tore people apart, etc. But without these fights we’d still be stuck in place where black people would have to use the back of the bus, and where women couldn’t vote.

       Suing over this prayer banner shows *justified* intolerance towards those who would take it upon themselves to impose their particular beliefs on everyone else.

       Get with the times, “Times”!

       
       
     • on January 14, 2012 at 10:00 am | Reply Drew

       So what you are saying is that she should have suffered silently and allowed a non constitutional display rather than show people where they are wrong?

       If we had more people like you on this planet we might still have slavery, women wouldn’t be able to vote and you’d still be stoning your children in the streets (per your ever-loving bible).

       Saying that we live in a country of religious tolerance doesn’t prove that we do. What proves that we DON’T is the abuse that this girl has had to put up with by “christians” and the fact that there are people of other religions that don’t believe in your god.

       
       
     • on January 17, 2012 at 5:58 pm | Reply Amii Lockhart

       It does show intolerance, intolerance for unconstitutional actions made by local governments.

       I do feel bad for the people who are sad to see the banner go. The school never should have let it get this far. They should have handled it with grace, and removed the banner when she first requested it. Let’s face it, they have been acting illegally in this regard for 50 years. They had plenty of warning, and beligerantly continued breaking the law even after they were found out, and they knowingly sacrificed educational dollars of future students in order to do so.

       They could not have handled it worse and owe everyone on all sides apologies.

       
       
126. on January 14, 2012 at 2:04 am | Reply Mr. Pete

     Jessica,
     Congratulations to you. You are an inspiration and model for all those concerned with their civil liberties. I wish you well in all you do.

     
     
127. on January 14, 2012 at 3:54 am | Reply Andrew Van Biljon

     For all you Christian’s out there, do not bother to argue with these fool’s who have no knowledge of the true gospel. For they will forever fill their minds with lies to achieve any form of hope for themselves. There is no need to try and explain your Christian point of view to them as their minds will block out all truth that is said. Their heart’s are made of stone. Instead be there for them, pray that one day an athiest you know or any other group of people from another religious constituency, will come to know The Lord in the same way you do. No girl won a case about taking off a prayer banner, the devil won it for her. The power of satan and he’s overwhelming sin. They may think they are right in what they say, but honestly, let us leave all the talking to the day of the coming of our Heavenly Father, then all that needs to be said will be. 1 Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ.

     
     
     • on January 15, 2012 at 3:45 pm | Reply Skoal Man

       If there is a place of torment called “Hell”, then there should be a very special place reserved in it for the likes of the sanctimonious Andrew Van Biljon.

       Christians, consider the fact that there is no more tenable evidence for your “Christian point of view” than there is for the Hindu or Muslim one. To believe otherwise is not only arrogant, but also to delude yourself into thinking, without any reasonable justifications, that you hold a special place in this world.

       
       
       • on February 19, 2012 at 5:47 am | Reply Jared Jones

         Skoal Man – I would not mind a Hindu believer to pray for me. I would not mind a Muslim praying for me. I am not sure of your believes, but I would not mind you praying for me. So would you mind if I say a prayer for you?

         
         
128. on January 14, 2012 at 4:58 am | Reply Incognito

     Jessica, thank you for taking a stand against the constant negligence displayed towards the constitution and personal rights. The arrogant self importance and entitlement that many Christians display in the United States often undermines our constitution, which is a godless document and secular in nature. I’m sorry that it seems many are ridiculing you for defending something that is the basis of our country, but hopefully your actions will have a ripple effect and cause others to take a stand as well. Don’t let the bullies get you down, you’re better than them and are fighting for a cause greater than many of them ever will. Don’t waste your breath on ignorant hypocrites like Tom Bauman who only belittle their own cause and set bad examples for the Christians who actually are kind and tolerant. I know a lot of people are angry, but sometimes you have to shake things up in order to get them straight again, if you catch my drift. Keep up the good fight, you’ve got a world full of people who have your back.

     
     
129. on January 14, 2012 at 8:40 am | Reply Didacticus

     I’m a “Catholic” agnostic living in Bohemia (possibly the least religious region in the world) and my initial thoughts about the banner controversy were that such mildly religious display of tradition does not violate the separation doctrine nor should it trouble non-religious people.

     I now must admit I was mistaken since the reaction of the town people proved the primary significance of the banner was indeed religious and that girls like you had every reason to be troubled by the school (government) endorsing its display.

     I wish you luck and strong and resilient heart and mind.

     
     
130. on January 14, 2012 at 9:53 am | Reply Drew

     Congratulations! You are an inspiration to everyone that has wanted to say something and felt that they didn’t have a place. I understand that at times you felt that the lawyers were pushing you and that you might have wanted to quit, but understand that by not quitting you have won more freedom for the people of the US; not less. The religious folk seem to think that their rights have been violated but they don’t want to see that they were violating other peoples rights in their display.

     Hopefully, one day they might outgrow their feelings of “herd mentality” but only because people like you decided to shine a light and show them how they looked.

     Congrats again!!! You da girl!!!

     
     
131. on January 14, 2012 at 11:26 am | Reply Josh

     Congrat’s you are a hero! I wouldn’t sweat these idiot’s, if they believed in an all powerfull being whom told them to love they, wouldn’t care about this like they do. I am under the impression that they have ties to what the believe in an extreeme emotional manner, and should probably seek mental help for having imaginary friends. I pity them, and I think you should to. They need the crutch, they are addicted to the concept of god like a drug addict is addicted to drugs. To hear somthing that goes against god upsets them. I also pitty them because they believe in a non-existant being, and believe that if they do not, they will suffer forever after their life has ended, which is likely the reason they say such slandorus things to you. They are afraid of that which they do not know, afraid that if you convince them or thoes they know otherwise then hell awaits them.
     Pitty thoes whom believe.
     Reading the bible convinced me not to be a christian for two reasons: First (and most importantly) the god of the bible is a prick, down right evil. Under the circumstances, I’d prefer hell. As opposed to being a coward, and believing somthing just because a sky bully can do bad things to me. Second, because if you read it, its pretty that clear its full of shit. Personally I think that (after having read the bible) thoes whom actually believe it, are cowards. Critical thinking turned me into an atheist.

     
     
132. on January 14, 2012 at 1:13 pm | Reply Gordon Mott

     Dear Jessica

     I don’t know how to send you a personal message apart from here. Firstly I want to say just how amazingly strong and courageous you have been amidst a massive onslaught of hatred, vitreol and pure evil talk. I am amazed and shocked at what I have read people saying about you. I am stunned and incredulous that people who call themselves Jesus followers can say such things. One thing is for sure and I know this, if Jesus was talking to you, he would have said nothing but loving words. I think you are amazing, and despite what you have said and done, I see more love in you than what I see in those who have attacked you and claim to be Christian. There is an innocence and a beauty in you which shines through! Doesnt Christianity teach that God is Love?

     Now, I want you to know that I am a follower of Jesus, and contrary to what Atheist’s would say, there is a distinct difference between religious and followers of Jesus. I am not going to argue about the rights and wrongs of the school situation, one being that I am a Brit so I don’t understand the situation fully, but suffice it to say I do believe that the US Law which has been altered, is wrong and should allow freedom of expression of relgious beliefs, whether Christian or Atheist (I happen to believe that Atheism is a religion even if it believes “there is no God”). I do also think you were wrong to campaign to have this removed as it is NOT offensive, or imposing a religious view, and apart from the references to “our heavenly Father and Amen” the rest of the statement any decent person would agree with.

     So, either way, its irrelevant really. The reaction to what has happened has probably served to reinforce your beliefs that religious people are often hateful and hypocrites and you want nothing to do with it.

     I am thrilled that you are a young lady of integrity and that you felt strongly enough to make a stand against something you disagreed with. Well done. I love that about you and it’s a great strength. I also know that you are so convinced about your beliefs that there is no God, that you want to convince others that their belief systems are foolish and false. It’s funny isn’t it Jessica, that two people can be at opposite ends of the spectrum regarding belief yet have the same strong convictions. One must be right and the other wrong. I also like the fact that there doesn’t appear to be any hatred in your approach, you’re just trying to be true to your convictions.

     The problem I see, is that for many in the USA, religion is so entwined in their community and culture as happens in large pockets of the USA, especially in the Bible belt, that anyone who challenges and dare I say it, changes anything that they feel is attacking their identity, as you have, will be attacked. It shows who people really are, their true colours. Vicious, hateful and destructive.

     If there is a God, he certainly doesnt need defending!

     I hope that one day you will meet some real Christians, then you can have real dialogue with them while at the same time feeling loved and cherished. Anything else is certainly not “Christian”

     Keep going.

     Gordon

     
     
133. on January 14, 2012 at 2:39 pm | Reply Scratch

     I wonder which does more damage to the reputation of Christianity? The removal of a Christian-themed mural from a High School? Or having Christians publicly behaving in a violent, hateful, disgraceful manner over that removal?

     Many Christians have made it clear they think Jessica’s action is a threat to their religion. But it seems to me the real harm to Christianity isn’t being done by Jessica at all.

     
     
134. on January 14, 2012 at 4:56 pm | Reply Matt

     I didn’t read this entire page, but I think it’s a great example of what not to do. Very appropriate name. Christian Love? Is this how Paul, Peter, John, Timothy, or any of the others in the New Testament showed the love of Christ? No.
     Don’t miss the purpose of the Bible while trying to fight for it.
     God is love, not hate. Why is there so much hatred here?

     Go out and represent Christ with Love. The comments here that are lashing out against Jessica are wrong.

     Dear Jessica,

     Jesus loves you, despite what some people might say. I may not support what you are trying to do, but I love you in the love of Christ. He loves you and cares about you. It doesn’t matter how long you fight against Him, He will always love you. He created you.

     -Matt

     
     
135. on January 14, 2012 at 7:13 pm | Reply Laury

     I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ. ~ Gandhi

     I am not an atheist, but I support you 100%. This country was founded on the tenats of separation of church and state. Religion belongs in the religious institutions, not in public schools. I may not believe the same way you do (I do not see science and theology as incompatible), but I admire your fortitude and determination to stay true to your beliefs.

     Keep it up and best of luck!

     
     
136. on January 14, 2012 at 9:08 pm | Reply Andrew

     I completely support you Jessica. You can teach of religion in schools, but you can’t teach religion. Theists don’t realize that atheists can quote scripture more than they can. You know more about your rights than those who are against you.

     
     
137. on January 14, 2012 at 9:52 pm | Reply Ben Skinner

     Jessica,

     I am an Australian. Australia is a secular nation. In our constitution we also have a clear separation of church and state. However, one of our state governments has seen fit to fund an evangelical organization called the Access Ministry and to allow “volunteers” from this organization to perform mandatory religious education sessions in ALL state schools. I have no problem with religious education i.e. education about the different religions and how they have shaped the world. It’s a fascinating and vital topic. That is not what is happening, though.

     These volunteers, who are not clergy, who have not even had a police background check, are allowed unsupervised into a room with thirty or so six years olds, where they tell them that the Big Bang is heresy, God hates people who don’t believe in him, and that they should try and get their parents to take them to church.

     Needless to say, there is a war between atheist and non-christian groups and the pro-access groups. However, the department of education and, therefore, the state govt. as a whole has refused point blank to change their ways. They are actually planning to increase the funding to this group by a few million dollars annually, and only this group…. No torah, no koran, not even Scientology. Not only is the entire state going against our constitution, it is openly favoring one group who’s interests obviously the same as christian members of the department of education. In the words of Helen Morton, the head of Access ministries, they “have a God-given opportunity to go forth and make disciples.”

     We need more people like you, and not just in the U.S.A., as the fight agasint oppression and ignorance is a worldwide struggle. When an entire state disobeys the law, and this disobedience is enforced by the police (Kids cannot leave these classes even if they want to, and truancy is seen as a very black mark on your school record), what choice do we have but to fight, and fight hard. One of your founding fathers, Jefferson, was adamant that if the American people were to keep their liberty, the state should be periodically overturned and rebuilt. His words strike sparks, even ten thousand miles away.

     From the other side of the world, we are behind your ideal. Never give up.

     
     
     • on January 17, 2012 at 9:08 am | Reply Mette Krangnes, BSN

       What you describe here is just scary childhood brainwashing and indoctrination. It’s really saddening that they have to stoop down to that level and do it behind parents’ backs like that.

       
       
     • on January 19, 2012 at 9:27 am | Reply Ashelz

       good to see another aussie here,
       i think i remember what your talking about, they called it RE, or religeous education, i cant remember most of it but we always watched ridiculous videos about how “god made everything” and all that bullshit. They also decided to make all the kids real interested by holding little end of term parties with ice cream and stuff, which is pretty much the only reason i went.
       One time, after watching a video which said that flamigoes were created by god or some such shit, When i was 7 or 8 years old i went to the teacher , and i said, what if these things evolved. he responded by saying “NO!” i then went on to say maybe some sort of intelligent design, to which he replied in an identical manner. needless to say, i left the class soon after (it wasnt mandatory)
       it really pisses me off about religeous people who just wont even consider letting someone have free thought, especially those who have a duty to teach the younger generation.
       i also experienced some creepy sorta brainwashing stuff when i was 13, i went to a camp. It was supposed to be fun and stuff. every night we listened to a bunch of christians rock about jesus and shit. and every morning we would have to study the bible for 2 hours, and then every time we ate we had to pray… after the camp, when i got home, i was like “what the shit, im actually kinda believing this BS atm, and then i just chucked that stuff out of my head.
       anyway, my crappily thought out rant is over, but remember, no matter what, there are always people that support you and your cause
       dont give up on this jessica

       
       
138. on January 14, 2012 at 10:19 pm | Reply Luxxxe_Barbie

     You have a supporter in me. keep standing up for yourself.

     
     
139. on January 15, 2012 at 12:45 am | Reply Daniel Kozak

     Hey Jessica, what you did here is remarkable, I’m glad you had the courage to stand up and fight for what you believed in. Outside of just being an atheist (I presume), I think you have become a great example of someone who gives it their all in fighting for what they believe in. In doing so, you have also further revealed the complete hypocrisy, hatred and intolerance that the Christian community stands for. You go girl.

     
     
140. on January 15, 2012 at 1:00 am | Reply Captain Bathrobe

     Jessica, you are an inspiration to us all! Keep fighting the good fight!

     
     
141. on January 15, 2012 at 3:56 am | Reply logic prevails

     I am amazed at the amount of courage that this young patriot possesses. This is a civil rights issue. That’s easy to see. What religion is right or wrong , god or no god, free thinker vs non thinker is actually not even relevant. This is not really a debate. When people get angry its for one of two reasons- fear or hurt. I would say that theist are scared of the unknown. I say they are scared that we atheists are the fastest growing minority. If Christians want to believe in talking snakes, a jealous god, and the many many fairy tales about Jesus (even though there is this god called horus that his legend is copied from) that’s fine. If someone likes Rachel Ray, that’s fine. When you push it off on me you become a bully. Christians, try to be Christ like. BTW I used to be a southern Baptist minister. Then I went to college and gained knowledge. Jessica best wishes and to all the believers out there you guys are doing a piss poor job. Your numbers and statistics prove it.

     
     
142. on January 15, 2012 at 6:36 am | Reply Austin K

     Wow, don’t know if you’ll ever see this, but continue to stand tall Jessica. Never despair in the face of hatred and all its ugliest proponents. You may feel like a lone candle in the dark, but your bravery is kindling a flame that shall never be smothered.

     “Enlighten the people generally, and tyranny and oppression of the mind will vanish like evil spirits at the dawn of day.”
     - Thomas Jefferson

     To those who wish to impose their theocratic bullying on us, beware, for you have awoken a sleeping giant.

     To those supporting Jessica, thank you and shine on!

     
     
143. on January 15, 2012 at 10:38 am | Reply jack

     Kevin, I am sorry that you wasted so much time in your dissertation and in trying to explain evolution to GabrielChristos. I really believe that you could dig Bonzo from his grave and have a better chance of having him understand. “It’s more logical to believe we were created and design than the theory that we were random accidents. Maybe atheists are happy to believe the universe was a random accident and that life was too and maybe they are happy to believe they came from apes which eat their own excrement but logic argues against their fairy tale theory.” These statements are so illogical I could scream!! PERHAPS Gabe is coprophagic person and thus his ideas are fertilized in his own brain.

     
     
144. on January 15, 2012 at 10:54 am | Reply jack

     Jessica, I read this “Sad part is God does love you too!!” in the typed letter you received and seems so incongruous that someone would profess to be such a believer in God and yet not believe in the doctrines. To be so young and to receive so much hate saddens me. Sincerely my best wishes go to you.

     
     
145. on January 15, 2012 at 12:46 pm | Reply Tony

     Anyone who claims to be Christian, yet advocates violence and spews hate, is a terrible follower of Christ.

     Anyone who claims to have faith, but needs the validation of a banner on a wall, doesn’t have much faith at all.

     Anyone who doesn’t understand why the prayer banner is illegal needs a civics lesson. The US Government cannot endorse a religion. This is not an ‘atheism vs. religion’ issue, it’s a legal issue.

     Thanks, Jessica, for sticking your neck out there to defend the Bill Of Rights. History- and the law- is on your side.

     
     
146. on January 15, 2012 at 12:49 pm | Reply bernd

     Dear Jessica,

     let me greet you from Europe and applaude you for your braveness. Keep up your work, humanity should be proud of you.

     greetings,
     Bernd

     
     
147. on January 15, 2012 at 2:58 pm | Reply Amsterdamned

     Greetings from the Netherlands!

     The amount of hate and bile coming from Christians is not surprising. They claim to follow the teachings of Jesus who preached love and compassion but as usual, all they can think of is attacking other people for not following their cult.

     Christians: what would your Jesus do?

     
     
148. on January 15, 2012 at 4:22 pm | Reply fede

     christians are hypocritical talking all day about respecting others but in real world they keep repressing people who think different

     they are against science
     thay are against evolution
     they are against thinking

     yet they say that we, atheists, are ignorant

     then I remembered something: Jess is exercising a right provided bt the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen a LONG TIME AGO, the Right of rebellion against opression
     and yes, just because the majority thinks the same doesn’t make it right
     Hitler was elected by democratic majority, but doesn’t make murdering 12 million people a nice thing, right?

     greetings from Argentina

     
     
149. on January 15, 2012 at 4:53 pm | Reply There

     Hey Jessica, I’m doing you a favor and pointing out the mistakes of the people slandering you. Thought it’d be good for them to feel some shame and guilt for their actions. Keep doing what you feel is right. You’re better and smarter than those drones out there. May the force be with you!

     
     
150. on January 15, 2012 at 7:18 pm | Reply Emma

     Stay strong- there are a lot of people who support you!

     
     
151. on January 16, 2012 at 1:14 am | Reply Jonathan Abbey

     Congratulations, Jessica. I’m happy to be one of your supporters in this.

     
     
152. on January 16, 2012 at 2:42 am | Reply christine

     Jessica, A friend of mine posted your story on facebook today, and I have to say GOOD FOR YOU GIRL!! You keep on sticking up for all of our rights! I can not believe the things people are saying to you, while at the same time they act all “high and mighty”

     You just keep doing exactly what you are doing, and know that you have many, many people on your side!

     
     
153. on January 16, 2012 at 3:14 am | Reply Jeffery

     Children please, just play nice.

     
     
154. on January 16, 2012 at 3:29 am | Reply Kyle

     I think there are some typos regarding who said what. Or was there really someone commenting named Alana Bauman?

     
     
155. on January 16, 2012 at 7:16 am | Reply Ajay

     Some people just don’t seem to like critical thinking. You’re wasting your time Jessica.

     
     
156. on January 16, 2012 at 11:05 am | Reply Zeke B

     Well done Jessica, from an admirer in Canada.

     I have just one observation, and I apologize because the subject ought to be unrelated to First Amendment issues, nevertheless it seems to surface over and over in these comments:

     Many of the “Christians” who are arguing against evolution are Catholic–several have stated so. Are they so disconnected from their faith (or hoodwinked by Protestant fundamentalists) that they’re unaware that the Vatican has officially accepted evolution for several decades now? An anti-evolutionary stance is not Catholic dogma, it is principally a Protestant (and Moslem) position.

     The Catholic Church may (mistakenly) believe that evolution is merely “God’s method”, but for Catholics to argue against the fact of evolution in light of the Vatican’s acceptance is truly nonsensical.

     
     
157. on January 16, 2012 at 11:06 am | Reply Bill Yeager

     Jessica,

     I have two young daughters aged 8 and 10, both intelligent, witty, compassionate, kind . . . and atheist.

     If they are able to be as erudite and focused as your good self, when they reach your age, I will be more than happy.

     They understand that people do bad things because they are psychologically damaged, primarily as a result of toxic nurture. I am sure that you also understand that the vicious, spiteful and downright nasty vitriol you are subjected to by, so-called, Christians, is only as a result of their dysfunctional up-bringing too.

     That their parents are too far-gone to be able to think for themselves and break the cycle of delusion, insisting that a vague genuflection hand movement initiates a telepathic connection to an invisible eternal judge whom they believe grants wishes, only cements the intellectual rigidity within which these children are confined. They so desperately want it to be real, that mere suggestion of otherwise must be met with violence and hatred, for the love of their god.

     Sounds similar to the sort of motivation the Muslim extremists had for 9/11. But, then, you know that. Shame that your Christian classmates don’t seem to be able to recognise the irony of their fundamentalist diatribe.

     That I appear to understand your country’s constitution more than they, says a great deal about the normalisation of radical ignorance.

     Rest assured, then, that those of a higher intellect, namely free-thinkers, recognise the full implication of what you have achieved and why you were so right to challenge established and institutionalised dogma.

     Good for you. Your parents have done a sterling job in raising you in an emotionally healthy and supportive environment and you, as a young adult, will no doubt continue to reflect the wisdom and clarity already evident within your words and actions.

     Or, to put it another way:
     Chin up Jess, don’t let the bastards get you down!

     
     
158. on January 16, 2012 at 12:13 pm | Reply John

     Greetings from Ohio,

     Thank you for having the courage to fight for our constitutional rights.

     Stay strong,

     John

     
     
159. on January 16, 2012 at 3:16 pm | Reply Sinjin Smythe

     What a wonderful girl! Makes me wish I was 18 again. I’d ask her out. She is beautiful and smart and exactly what a fine American is. Bravo!

     
     
160. on January 16, 2012 at 3:30 pm | Reply Mark Persuitte

     Jessica,

     I look around this country and I keep seeing religion creeping into all aspects of life. I see presidential candidates falling over each other trying to show which of them is the most pious. It quite frankly terrifies me.

     Then I look at young people like you, and it gives me hope for the future. Hope that there will be people with the vision to see the right path out of this mess and the strength to lead us there.

     Never stop fighting for what is right. Never stop doing incredible things with your life.

     You are a beautiful human being.

     
     
     • on January 19, 2012 at 9:31 am | Reply Ashelz

       biggest problem is, the majority are still religeous, and that doesnt bode well for an openly atheist president in the near future :L

       
       
161. on January 16, 2012 at 6:26 pm | Reply Gyeonghwa

     Dear Jessica,

     I’m not an atheist but I am glad that you one this battle for the separation of church and state. The assaults thrown at you by “peaceful and loving” people is reprehensible in a civil society. I wish more you youths like you could stand up for their rights, knowing they might be ridicule.

     P.S. I’d like to mention the prayer banner actually goes AGAINST the Bible. Matthew 6:5-6 states that people who make these prayers in public places (like a PUBLIC school) are nothing but hypocritical attention seekers. But don’t expect fundies to know what the Bible actually says.

     
     
162. on January 16, 2012 at 6:34 pm | Reply Dave

     All over one little word that YOU don’t even believe in. Now they have to spend more money to have police patrol the school to protect you. That is everyone’s tax money that YOU are spending as if it is YOURS. God Bless you.

     
     
     • on January 16, 2012 at 6:46 pm | Reply Gyeonghwa

       Heh, our you can take it the other way. If you hadn’t been so adamant about one stupid banner and just let the school take it down (as required by separation of church and state), the lawsuit might not have happened. So in a way, YOU wasted money protecting a hypocritical banner that had no business being there.

       
       
       • on January 16, 2012 at 6:53 pm | Reply Dave

         I appreciate your attempt at chiming in with my comment, However, For the love of God, please use spell check and proof before hitting “Post Comment”.

         
         
         • on January 16, 2012 at 6:56 pm | Reply Gyeonghwa

           That is a lousy evasion of the point if I ever saw one. (Plus it was only one misplaced “u”. I don’t see you correcting the typos your fellow “loving” Christion made.)

           
           
           • on January 16, 2012 at 7:02 pm Dave

             I agree with the point, what I am saying is, let us not be lazy with our reply’s. Also, I don’t have time to waste reading every post that this spoiled brat has to post.

             
             
         • on January 17, 2012 at 6:19 pm | Reply Amii Lockhart

           Ok, Mr. Grammar Police, take it like you serve it:

           1. Capitalized words are inappropriate unless they are acronyms.
           2. The word “for” should not be capitalized as it is not the first word in the sentence.
           3. The period should have been between the word “comment” and the quotation mark.
           4. In the comment below you did not place quotations around what you were saying.
           5. In the comment below your mispelled replies.

           
           
     • on January 17, 2012 at 5:14 pm | Reply Eric Paulsen

       And if it weren’t for people like YOU, Dave, there would be no need for her protection. Want to save your precious tax dollars? Maybe you and your death threat making troglodytes could practice some of that Christian love and tolerance I keep hearing so much about. If I recall from my own days in church it’s kind of an everyday thing – not just as YOU see fit.

       
       
     • on January 18, 2012 at 5:04 pm | Reply ChrisB

       Are you so unaware that the protection is only required to protect her from YOU? Well, maybe not you personally, but Tom and people like him who represent genuine threats. The cognitive dissonance around this issue is staggering.

       
       
163. on January 16, 2012 at 6:37 pm | Reply Chris Dodds

     Hey Jessica, I must say that even though I’m 8 years older than you, you have proven to be an inspiration. I realize that you have lost a lot of friends. I’m a member of a social networking site called Atheist Nexus, it’s like Facebook, but it’s exclusively for nonbelievers. I think you should check it out if you’re not already a member. You’ve got a lot of fans on that site.

     
     
     • on January 16, 2012 at 7:51 pm | Reply Dave

       I hope a lot of the “Fans” live in Cranston. That way it is all their tax money being spent over this stupid situation.

       
       
       • on January 17, 2012 at 5:07 pm | Reply Eric Paulsen

         If only you could get as worked up about our taxes being wasted on “faith based” organizations and the extra burden we all incur because religious organizations don’t pay taxes on their houses of worship. Or did you think god picked up the balance?

         
         
       • on January 18, 2012 at 5:02 pm | Reply ChrisB

         It’s the mayor/town council/school board that wasted your tax money. There was a simple, free solution that they chose to reject. Hope you’ll remember that in November. Credit were credit is due, if you please.

         
         
164. on January 17, 2012 at 1:01 am | Reply Janee

     Even if I could get passed all the ableist comments in this, (“retarded” being the most obviously, “stupid” and “blind” to follow) and I can’t, he would still be wrong about pretty much everything he said. Some of this would be up for debate if these people were respectful, instead he is rude and ignorant and makes threats. He then seals his ignorance by saying that the school has the right to keep this banner, despite being clearly illegal and violating separation of state and church.

     
     
165. on January 17, 2012 at 3:21 am | Reply Dani Randall

     I am Wiccan and this sounds liuke the Salem witch trials….IMO the school putting up this banner is their way of saying “WORSHIP OUR GOD OR ELSE.”

     
     
166. on January 17, 2012 at 4:38 am | Reply Lithp

     If anyone reading this post agrees with Tom, I want them to do something: Count up all of the posts supporting Jessica. Now imagine all of them stalking you across the internet & telling you that you should kill yourself.

     That is you. That’s how cool you are.

     
     
167. on January 17, 2012 at 4:38 am | Reply Matti Sironen

     Breaking news: atheists aren’t allowed to “like Stars / Astronomy” since according “Protestant belief”, some three men followed the North Star at some point or another.

     It’s like a non sequitur built upon fallacies and topped off with sheer idiocy. To conclude it’s “not even wrong” dignifies it with far more analysis than it deserves; the banana argument is brilliant by comparison and “why are there still monkeys” a question asked by a genius, for Athe’s sake.

     Despite my momentary despair at humanity, all my support to you Jessica. It’s sad that many Christians have to be dragged kicking and screaming to the 21st century, but we can’t have these intellectually insecure cry babies bullying our society with their tantrums and hissy fits.

     
     
168. on January 17, 2012 at 6:27 am | Reply Chris

     Well, Mr Bauman has given a few Brits a laugh this morning. He is an example of the kind of bullying ignoramous our company love to expose via google before hiring. I hope US companies are less thorough, for his sake.

     In fact, I wouldn’t even have a pint with his ilk, I prefer my buddies friendly, honest and sane. They are less likely threaten me with death if I disagree with any ridiculous assertions.

     We are fortunate that there aren’t many like him in the UK.

     Good on you Jessica, and huge respect for you and your friends going to school every day with these morons. You’re all heros, keep standing up to idiots and keep standing up for your laudible constitution.

     
     
169. on January 17, 2012 at 7:25 am | Reply Mette Krangnes, BSN

     Keep up the good work, Jessica. I’m behind you and your stand for reason and non-discrimination. A true democracy protects the minorty from the majority in the face of injustice, no matter how much ignorant people try to defend their outdated world views.

     Well wishes from a Norwegian atheist.

     
     
170. on January 17, 2012 at 7:46 am | Reply NanceConfer

     You give me hope for the next generation, Jessica. Thank you for fighting the good fight!

     Nance

     
     
171. on January 17, 2012 at 11:48 am | Reply Anne Castrillon

     Holy shit that tom guy is such a douche. I’m sorry you have to deal with these people, ugh :/

     
     
172. on January 17, 2012 at 12:50 pm | Reply ManhattanMC

     Jessica,

     Greetings and much admiration from NYC.
     You rock!

     
     
173. on January 17, 2012 at 3:51 pm | Reply Elaine

     Jessica,

     Congratulations! Keep fighting the good fight. I admire you very much.

     
     
174. on January 17, 2012 at 5:00 pm | Reply Eric Paulsen

     Dear Jessica, Thank you for your courageous actions in support of the US Constitution. I am sure you already know that the law is on your side even if the vocal hateful idiots are giving you grief because you are attacking their perceived entitlements. I wish I had been as active as you when I was in school because maybe there would be fewer incidents like this, but probably not, ignorance seems impervious to facts. Always has been and probably always will be.

     After reading the above I am compelled to ask – is Tom Bauman special needs? He is hateful, and a misogynist, and seems to think that more people believing a thing means that the thing believed in is more true but his argumentation was so flawed and so random I can’t help but wonder. I would be surprised if he manages to master the belt buckle let alone get into the legal profession.

     
     
175. on January 17, 2012 at 5:40 pm | Reply Glenn A

     Jessica, while I agree you have every right to ask for the prayer to be removed, I think sometimes you need to consider everyone around you. I don’t go to church, I have many differences with organized religion, so I am not speaking as a religious person. I just think that if someone does believe, and reading that prayer somehow makes them a better person, well, let them. I don’t find what they say in this prayer offensive, and I would just smile, if I found someone finding peace with in themselves from reading anything.

     Be well
     Glenn

     
     
     • on January 18, 2012 at 4:57 pm | Reply ChrisB

       That’s a nice sentiment Glenn, but where does it end?

       If having the school open each day with a Bible reading and a prayer read over the loudspeaker helps people find peace, is that OK?

       If the football coach organizes a series of meetings with the Fellowship of Christian Athletes, and making the team is contingent on participating in the meetings, and that makes some of the football players find peace, is that OK?

       If a Muslim teacher insists that whichever students happen to be in his classroom at the appointed times join him in prayer to Mecca, and it helps him (and perhaps some of the students) find peace, is that OK?

       If an atheist English teacher assigns her students to write a personal essay and then refuses to give credit to the student who submits one on his conversion story, when he became born-again, because doing so helps her find peace, is that OK?

       A violation is a violation. It is not OK to tell Jessica, or anyone else in such circumstances, to just smile and turn away.

       
       
176. on January 17, 2012 at 6:12 pm | Reply Jen4k2

     Hi Jessica!

     Christian here. I support you and your Constitutional rights (and science, and evolution). I’m not the only one and want you to know that. There’s a whole bunch of people on Facebook in “The Christian Left” who think well of you and wish you all the best.

     But really! You really should not put up with these people who degrade you like this, even if the police have been looking into the matter — and they should. You’re showing Tom and Mike an incredible amount of respect by not just simply blocking them the very moment they start swearing at you.

     I really shouldn’t judge Tom and Mike, but they don’t seem to have really internalized the Greatest Commandments. This sort of behavior is just unspeakably awful and should absolutely embarrass their faith communities. They infuriate me.

     I cannot fully articulate what an appalling affront this is upon the reputation of Christians who do try to love their neighbors. These guys miss the point. They dilute the message of Christians who are trying to make the world a better place. Instead of calling you unspeakable names, they should be ministering to the poor and fighting to give voice to the helpless.

     On top of all of that, they are breaking the second Great Commandment. You are their neighbor, maybe literally. They are not showing you the respect and love you deserve. They don’t seem to understand that “love your neighbor” means that they shouldn’t throw f-bombs and c-bombs at you. You’re behaving far better than they are — that should shame them.

     But, I’ve gotten a bit long-winded. Just know that these people aren’t the only Christians out there, and there are so many (over 52,000 on the Christian Left on Facebook!) that are on your side.

     
     
177. on January 17, 2012 at 8:43 pm | Reply Sam Patterson

     Jessica, keep up the good work. Your intelligence and bravery are a model for all us to follow.

     
     
178. on January 18, 2012 at 12:45 am | Reply SteveInCO

     Kudos to you Jessica for all this work.

     Illegitimi non carborundum (don’t let the bastards grind you down).

     
     
179. on January 18, 2012 at 4:40 pm | Reply Linda

     Jessica,

     Please prove to me that Evolution is true. Have you not heard of the missing link?
     Evolution is not proven and if you read some of Darwin’s writings from the end of his life you will read that even he realized that evolution could not be proven.

     Thank you.

     
     
     • on February 21, 2012 at 5:23 pm | Reply Not convinced

       Linda,

       Why are you asking Jessica to prove that evolution is true? Jessica didn’t go through all she went through because she sought to prove or disprove the “truth” of evolution. It is other posters who have brought up the issue of evolution. Jessica questioned the constitutionality/legality of a public entity hanging a religious banner as it pertained to separation of church and state.

       That’s the problem here…extremists just can’t seem wrap their tiny brains around the fact that this was a legal/civil issue dealing with the US Constitution and not a religious one.

       Keep up the good work, Jessica!

       
       
     • on February 21, 2012 at 6:34 pm | Reply Rob

       Prove evolution is true? Well, you are here, you wouldn’t be here if it wasn’t true

       
       
     • on February 24, 2012 at 3:30 pm | Reply Don

       I completely buy into the theory of evolution because it’s better than the other answer which is “because the bible says it’s so.”

       
       
180. on January 18, 2012 at 11:15 pm | Reply Lithp

     Linda, no offense meant towards Jessica, but I highly doubt you ACTUALLY expect a high school student to explain modern biology to you. And I think she has her own problems, such that you really shouldn’t feel entitled to tutoring from her.

     So, here’s a gift:

     http://forums.fstdt.net/science-and-technology/crash-course-in-evolution-and-what-it-is/

     I would also recommend this page to anyone with an interest in evolution.

     
     
181. on January 19, 2012 at 6:15 am | Reply Deirdre

     You are a wonderful, inspiring, and incredibly brave person. Congratulations on your monumental accomplishment! It’s a positive step for every American who believes in the separation of church and state. (Atheist or not!)

     Don’t ever let these functional illiterates bring you down. Continue what you’re doing and know that plenty of intelligent, warm-hearted people are standing behind you. Keep fighting in every way you can. Your cause is a just one!

     Deirdre Benavides
     Dallas, Texas

     
     
182. on January 19, 2012 at 9:45 am | Reply Ashelz

     From a supporter in Australia,
     Keep up all the great work, despite being on the other side of the world in a largly secular country, its still shocking to know how many people are still strongly christian. I guess you have the worse deal over there where most christians are fundamentalist.
     Seriously though, what you are doing is inspiring to so many people and it really makes me saddened to think that I dont actually know you or people like you in person.
     Still, keep fighting the good fight, there are thousands of good, intelligent who support you, and dont forget it.

     
     
183. on January 19, 2012 at 11:57 am | Reply LPak

     Jessica, you are an inspiration and a BAMF!!

     
     
184. on January 19, 2012 at 12:14 pm | Reply Amy

     Those of us who are not religious (for whatever reason), typically do not push our views onto others. We do, however, expect equality and respect, which our Constitutional Rights provide. I commend you for standing up for what you believe in. Unfortunately, most religious people DO force their views upon others and cannot wrap their minds around our FREEDOM OF RELIGION (or lack thereof). Not to mention, the state of RI was founded solely based on religious freedom (thank you Mr. Roger Williams).

     
     
185. on January 19, 2012 at 4:15 pm | Reply Aaron

     Jessica, wow. I used to play chess with pigeons like this and I don’t miss it at all. Hats off to you for your patience.

     Just wanted you to know that I stand behind what you did, and my heart goes out to you for the lightning rod you’ve become. Hopefully you can go to a nice college in a more tolerant town or city.

     Best of luck!

     
     
186. on January 19, 2012 at 4:37 pm | Reply Jason

     Jessica you are standing up for what is legal and constitutional. Don’t let the ridiculous clowns of the world try to drag you down into their rhetoric. You’ll notice that every slight against you and your actions is neatly ignoring the fact that the banner was unconstitutional, end of story.

     You go, girl!

     
     
187. on January 19, 2012 at 6:10 pm | Reply adam

     I love how that Tom moron keeps stating that “85 %” of the world agrees with him and that she is “fighting 85 %” of the worlds believers. Actually its more accurate to state that roughly 33 % of the world is of Christian faith, the rest are of other faiths, which Jessica was also fighting FOR. By fighting to have her school take down a banner that advocated for the Judeo/Christian God, she was saying it could be taken as offensive by Hindus, Muslims, Jainists ect. not just atheists. And I may be wrong here but from my limited understanding of the case and of American law, as I am Canadian, wasnt the entire point of filing a lawsuit one of constitutional law, and not of religion? From what I have read, and I’m sure many agree, it was the Chritian extremists that made this into a international hot topic. What I have read is a bunch of crying pussies throwing out the word atheist and a bunch more morons jumping on that band wagon when the simple point, which you would think these simpltons would get, is that she wasnt standing up as an atheist, she was standing up as a citizen who happened to be an atheist.

     
     
188. on January 19, 2012 at 7:59 pm | Reply Chris

     Hi Jessica,

     I’ve been following your story on the atheist blogosphere about your court case and the predictable, but no less vile, Christian backlash for a few days now. I was so shocked and appalled that i felt compelled to add my own praise, for your courage, intelligence and dignity. especially given that your state representative stuck his oar in and fed the flames ignorance, bigotry. I’m not even American, and damn it even i know your constitution separates church and state, in the first fucking line. There’s nothing like being accused of intolerance by people who are themselves being intolerant. Anyway, I just wanted to express my solidarity from accross the pond to say congratulations on the successful campaign to you and anyone else who supported it, you’re an absolute star and don’t let the seemingly endless torrent of Christian screeds grind you down. If you ever feel like the negative attention is getting too much, then remember: you have the support of any vaguely sane human being, including other religious believers – you know the thoughtful ones that can resist the urge to commit random acts of intellectual fuckwittery…..mostly.
     Keep up the good work and well done for standing up for your constitutional rights.
     Greetings from England.

     Chris

     
     
189. on January 19, 2012 at 8:04 pm | Reply Kevin

     “Christianity and creation have been considered true by millions of people for the last 5000 years. We dont have to prove that god exists (because most of the world agrees), atheist should have to prove god doesn’t exist.”

     Me: ಠ_ಠ
     Christianity is not 5000 years old. If Jesus existed, he would have been born around year 0, give or take 10 years. Otherwise, why would the current dating system be based on his birth?

     And congrats on winning the suit! It’s always great to see fellow atheists stand up for their rights.

     
     
190. on January 19, 2012 at 10:57 pm | Reply TL

     Jessica,
     As a Christian — Catholic — I am saddened by the reception you are receiving from Christians upset by your crusade. Most of the things — atheist talking points — posted here are false representations of Christianity, and outright lies. The Catholic Church recognizes evolutionary theory, and most reasonable people don’t see a mutual exclusiveness between a Creator and evolutionary processes. I am also a PhD in the Biological Sciences, and don’t appreciate my beliefs being cast as folly here, by woefully undereducated pseudo-intellectuals.

     Back on point, I agree with the separation of Church and State, for the protection and well-being of both entities.

     Again, I sincerely wish for your well being, and regret the bile some Christians are directing at you. I sincerely hope you find a purpose greater than “atheist activism” in this life; outside of internet comment sections and civil liberties groups, it’s certainly a low bar to set for yourself; they care not for the rights of all, but only to validate their world view. Believe what you wish in good health and peace.

     
     
     • on January 20, 2012 at 8:04 pm | Reply Toby Cooper

       TL wrote:

       “Most of the things — atheist talking points — posted here are false representations of Christianity, and outright lies. The Catholic Church recognizes evolutionary theory, and most reasonable people don’t see a mutual exclusiveness between a Creator and evolutionary processes.”

       While I agree that most reasonable people don’t see the two as being mutually exclusive, to suggest that most of the talking points are false representations of Christianity simply because they don’t represent your particular version of Christianity is very questionable. I won’t go so far as to accuse you of engaging in a “no true Scotsman” fallacy but I would say you are treading very close. Many of the talking points are, in fact, representative of a significant portion of the population that identifies as Christian. Having said that, I do think it is unfortunate that our labels have to be so broad and inaccurate. Obviously the definition of a Christian allows for a wide variety of disparate beliefs to be contained within it.

       While I may have disagreed with the specifics of this particular comment, I agree with you in principle at least. The majority of Christians are fairly reasonable people. Unfortunately they also tend to be the less vocal variety. This fact brings me to my last objection. You then said:

       “I sincerely hope you find a purpose greater than “atheist activism” in this life; outside of internet comment sections and civil liberties groups, it’s certainly a low bar to set for yourself; they care not for the rights of all, but only to validate their world view.”

       One who complains about false generalizations in one paragraph should avoid them in all subsequent paragraphs. That is my recommendation. Most “atheist activists”, in my experience ARE concerned for the rights of all people. A large portion of atheists are humanists and human rights are kind of a big thing with them. In this particular case you seem to have confused some trait of Jessica’s, namely her atheism, with her activism. She has acted to defend the constitution and the constitutional rights of people of all faiths or lack thereof. I would hardly call defending the civil liberties of all her fellow citizens a “low bar.” As someone who understands the separation of church and state I would expect you to recognize as much. But don’t worry. I suspect she will accomplish much much more in this life than mere “atheist activism.” So stay tuned.

       
       
191. on January 20, 2012 at 11:44 am | Reply alan

     great campaign, great result Jessica congatulations from all the rational people of North Yorkshire UK

     
     
192. on January 20, 2012 at 12:21 pm | Reply Mark Scott

     Jessica Ahlquist – you are a brace heroine standing up for the human rights of ALL Americans.

     Congratulations.

     Despite the vile hate speech of these brainwashed supposedly Christian drones/sheep/patsies/rubes/intellectual bacteria, you continue to stand your ground.

     You are strong. The mindless totem worshiping fleas are weak. They cannot stand on their own two feet without the crutch of religion to support them. Life is too hard for them.

     If heroes like Christopher Hitchens have taught us anything, it’s that we are giants among men. Not equal to the religious feebles, but towering above, striding like colossi above them, looking down from a great height at their puling and whining, their terrified, hateful faces.

     Christians posting here: your churches are everywhere. You have homes.

     The constitution makes it abjectly clear that there is a separation of church and state. If you’re in a public school in the USA your school should not be using public funds to support your fantasy.

     I wonder how much you would object to banner calling Muslims to prayer. Rhetorical question, obviously. You’d be focusing all your terrified fearful bitter self loathing hatred on the Muslims instead of this brave girl, Jessica Ahlquist (American heroine).

     Jessica, you’re the bravest female in America right now.

     Congratulations on fighting the good fight against fear, ignorance and the worship of imaginary sky wizards.

     
     
     • on January 20, 2012 at 8:32 pm | Reply Toby Cooper

       Mark, we are supposed to be the reasonable ones, remember? I agree with much of what you said but it would have been much more powerful a message if you had omitted this part:

       “You are strong. The mindless totem worshiping fleas are weak. They cannot stand on their own two feet without the crutch of religion to support them. Life is too hard for them…If heroes like Christopher Hitchens have taught us anything, it’s that we are giants among men. Not equal to the religious feebles, but towering above, striding like colossi above them, looking down from a great height at their puling and whining, their terrified, hateful faces.”

       It takes a very shallow reading of Hitchens to take that kind of message from him but more to the point you seem to be at odds with the very idea of equality in these passages. We most certainly are equal to them. It was in the front lines in the battleground of ideas that Hitchens fought. It is the truth and the honest search for the truth that is superior to faith, the ability to say to oneself “I might be wrong but I will go where the evidence leads me.” It is ideas that stand, “towering above, striding like colossi”, not people. These are people you are speaking of regardless of how vile they may act or how confused they might be. We can still fight their hatred and their attempts to destroy democracy but we shouldn’t demonize them or dehumanize them. At best it is bad form, at worst, just an asshole thing to do.

       
       
193. on January 20, 2012 at 2:37 pm | Reply Wayne

     Being a former Rhode Islander I was aware of the Holiday Tree drama, well I felt it was drama, others may not. As a christian it really didn’t matter to me what they called the tree. A pretty, decorated tree to me isn’t what christmas means to me, it’s a time to reflect and rejoice in the birth of my Saviour Jesus Christ. That is my belief, others have their own as you also have your own.

     As a former member of the US Military I defended the right of all people to believe what they wish, I may not have to agree with thier beliefs, but you as well as they have a right to them.

     I to have to agree with some of my fellow christians when it comes to the way people have reacted to you comments and actions. My faith requires that I show undertanding, compassion and sympathy for those who have not found Jesus. Not belittle, condemn an threathen them. Hopefully you will not judge all those with faith by the actions of a few zealots, crackpots and nuts.

     I do have a question about the Prayer Debate I would like to ask however. Was there at any time a compromise offered to change the prayer from something spiritual to something insperational?

     Having read the prayer, if it was changed to something like the following;

     “Use today to do our best.
     To grow mentally and morally, and physically.
     To be kind and helpful to our classmates and teachers.
     To be honest with ourselves and others.
     To be good sports and smile when we lose as well as when we win.
     To value true friendship.
     And always conduct ourselves so as to bring credit to Cranston High School West.”

     This is something that removes any hint of a higher power but still reminds us to be at our best. Which I think you may agree is something that we should all strive for.

     
     
     • on January 20, 2012 at 11:35 pm | Reply Toby Cooper

       It is my understanding that was the first thing the young lady did. She went to the school administration privately with her complaint and one of the options she suggested was the removal of the overtly religious language. The administration refused. If I am not mistaken, even the ACLU left this option on the table as well. If I’m wrong about any of this then I hope someone will correct me.

       
       
       • on January 21, 2012 at 12:18 pm | Reply Wayne

         If a compromise was offered and refused by the school, then although I may not agree with her I must say I commend her for having the courage and strength to stand up for her principle and her pursuit of her rights.

         
         
194. on January 21, 2012 at 2:32 am | Reply John Phillips, FCD

     Well done Jessica, for the world, not just the US, needs people of strength, character and integrity, such as yourself. Stay strong and best wishes from the UK.

     
     
195. on January 21, 2012 at 10:39 am | Reply Genghis

     Jessica, I admire your stance and your calm take on all this. So also from here in the UK I say well done.

     
     
196. on January 22, 2012 at 1:21 am | Reply Eric

     The way self-professed (so-called) Christians treat others is the reason I refuse to associate with them today. They will all go to their own personal “hell” for what they do in this life in the name of their “god”–and the sooner, the better.

     
     
197. on January 22, 2012 at 5:53 am | Reply Canuck

     Thanks for standing up to the bullies in your school, and never let them get you down, girl.

     
     
198. on January 22, 2012 at 11:22 am | Reply Mychele

     Dear Jessica,
     I learned about your brave efforts through Damon Fowler and his FB page. Damon is a fellow atheist who as you know objected to Christian prayers at his H.S. graduation, another slight I hope you will not have to further endure when you graduate. I admire you both greatly and consider you heroes. Both of you were braver than you should have been asked to be, and the shameful behavior that you have been subjected to by supposed religious folk is a blight on our civilization we must address as well.
     You not only stand up for the rights of atheists, but also Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Shintos, Wiccans, Agnostics and others (incl.those Christians here who practice their faith personally and are offended by those who grandstand theirs and make a false show). who are also students and citizens of a nation that was built around respect for all through non-establishment of a state and public religion.

     Some criticize your parents but I am thankful you have strong parents who support your rights as well. We have far too many people who don’t care enough about the truth in the Constitution and are willing, esp. this year, to accept snake-oil salesmen and -women who interpret it willy-nilly for their personal gain. We need more citizens, less sheep, and I certainly include you, your parents and Damon in the former!

     I have to say too that your posts have shown logic, intelligence, mythological patience, and wonderful grammar and spelling ability! You have a bright future!

     Please take heart, have courage, be proud, and keep up the remarkable patience you have with your friends and the wobblies who bedevil you in this fights. You teach them volumes.

     
     
199. on January 22, 2012 at 9:15 pm | Reply Kt

     Jessica, thanks for fighting for the first amendment, a lot of people really appreciate it! (not just atheists)
     A majority of the christians seem to believe that the founding fathers were christian and therefore this is a christian nation. Huh? The founding fathers made it explicitly clear this is NOT a christian nation, many of the founding fathers were not christian, they were deists! Some of them were a religious minority and wanted to ensure that religious freedom could exist.
     This is a secular nation and these people who do not believe in the first amendment clearly are against what this country stands for, they should be ashamed!

     
     
200. on January 23, 2012 at 12:44 pm | Reply Michael W Riley

     Congratulations, Jessica.
     Standing up and insisting that our constitutional protections be upheld is courageous, especially when done by an atheist. Far too many people in this country vilify atheism, perceiving it as some kind of threat to their faith. It’s unfortunate that you will have to deal with hate-filled vituperation as a result of your dedication to the foundations of our republic. Keep your head up. There are far more supporters out there than will be apparent from the posts you receive from the haters.

     
     
201. on January 23, 2012 at 1:34 pm | Reply Brent

     Tom does not understand the arguments he copied from other people. This is evidenced by in his comments by the fact that he clearly has no clue what the 2nd Law of Entropy really states. The Earth is not a closed system; it receives energy from its surroundings (e.g. Sun) and gives off energy to its surrounding.

     An easy way to think about it is that the *NET* entropy of everything (i.e. universe) is increasing but that does not mean the entropy of every system is. The Earth can become orderly in some regions of space while the Sun becomes yet even more disorderly.

     I pity Jessica for being such a brilliant young woman amidst a school filled with misinformed, ignorant bigots. I really hope the students there do not graduate with such embarrassingly little knowledge about the world.

     I am tired of being stereotyped by Europeans as a dumb American because these Christian fundamentalists believe in fairy tales even after they grow up.

     
     
202. on January 23, 2012 at 2:58 pm | Reply Paul Manocchio

     Jessica, Stay strong. I am sure you have found strength in the words of Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Paine, and John Adams to name a few. Each and all of the founding fathers would be standing right next to you if they were alive today. You are doing the right thing. I am sorry that you have had to face the provincial nature of too many believers. However, as I read some of your remarks I am encouraged by your confidence and thoughtfulness. Hold fast to your convictions, stand strong and do not let intolerance distract you. Wishing you the very best. Paul Manocchio, Van Nuys CA

     
     
203. on January 24, 2012 at 9:20 am | Reply Matt

     Jessica,

     You are a bright and insightful young lady. Thank you for standing up for ALL SIDES in this fight. Whether they want to acknowledge it or not, the folks who are taking issue with your stance are benefiting from what you are doing as well. You are a true patriot, and it is people like you who will keep our America the land of the free, even when the free try and trample the other side’s freedom.

     Rock on!!!

     
     
204. on January 24, 2012 at 10:11 am | Reply Steve

     Jessica,

     My wife and I totally support you and your cause. If Jesus really did exist, he would be appalled at how these “Christians” are acting towards you and your family; it’s despicable. As fellow Rhode Islanders, we applaud your efforts; Roger Williams would be proud of you…

     
     
205. on January 24, 2012 at 3:10 pm | Reply Emily

     Jessica, I just wanted to commend you on how you dealt with Tom. As a christian i fully support taking down the banner, religion has no place in the school system.

     
     
206. on January 24, 2012 at 5:25 pm | Reply Katherine

     As a Christian I’m outraged by some of comments I’ve seen here, particularly the personal accusations.

     Jessica, I completely support your cause. A prayer banner has no place in a public school. People of ALL religious backgrounds, or none at all, should be able to go into a public school without seeing a Christian prayer on the wall. Could you re-work it into something more inclusive?

     I hope that you can see past some of these these comments and not condemn all of us for the hateful words of a few people. There are quite a few Christians out there who don’t hate atheists, who support the separation of church and state, and just want to practice our faith openly without constantly shoving it down other people’s throats.

     To all of the Christians who responded to this debate with hateful comments and threats to Jessica (and especially whoever wrote that letter to her family), shame on you. Retaliation is NOT what Christianity is about. Read the Constitution.

     Peace,
     Katherine

     
     
     • on January 26, 2012 at 9:11 pm | Reply Furry

       Katherine, thank you, I was starting to get the impression you were worried about.

       
       
207. on January 25, 2012 at 3:54 pm | Reply Sebastian

     Let’s break this down LOGICALLY, shall we???? No left, no right, no religion, no atheism, no anything but the truth and nothing but the truth :

     1.) Jessica and her parents move to Cranston.
     2.) Jessica enrolls in school.
     3.) Jessica starts a POLITICAL RELIGIOUS IDEOLOGICAL WAR IN HER TOWN.
     4.) Jessica litigates EVERYONE she disagrees with.
     5.) Jessica sees absolutely nothing wrong with the hurt, pain, and ideological war she started in a quiet town that did her no ill will.
     6.) Jessica is shocked to learn that if she is a trouble maker and a problematic IDEOLOGICAL AL-QUAEDA TERRORIST with little regard for a majority of people who clearly and vastly outnumber her family.
     7.) Jessica is also shocked to learn that school is actually a place where people can express themselves and their religions, viewpoints, and feelings any way they choose as long as they don’t hurt anyone. Signs are not the end of the world. Plaques don’t kill people. You have the option of not looking or you can be brave enough…. GASP!!! to read it and not care!!! WOW!!!! SCARY!!! lol
     8.) Jessica probably isn’t smart enough to learn that many people probably don’t like her not so much because of the religious aspect of a 50 year old plaque, but rather that removing it is removing part of the school’s history. Many people will probably agree that it is NOT JESSICA’S DECISION ALONE, IT WAS THE ENTIRE STUDENT’S DECISION and SHE SELFISHLY TOOK THAT RIGHT AWAY FROM THEM. THAT IS TYRANNY CUT AND DRY.
     9.) Jessica remains dumb about the entire matter, learned absolutely nothing, and her father who is probably dumber than her will congratulate her on making enemies, causing a media circus, turning people against each other, and pissing off just about everyone except the ideological morons that think like her and only offer her cheap worthless e-mails telling her how brave she is.

     finally :

     10.) Jessica and her moronic father put their tails between their legs and she probably transfers to a school more to her taste…one filled with future litigation rodents who chase ambulances, sue people into oblivion, and destroy peace in various towns, countries, and entire civilizations because these types of individuals produce nothing of value and have no conscience. They usually defend industries that pollute foreign countries and poison children. They defend child molesters and violent criminals as well as political criminals. They defend corporate bailouts, and they eventually become corrupt politicians and judges who write congratulatory letters to other litigation children who sue their schools and create chaos, hatred, and misery. Somehow, history repeats itself.

     12.) Jessica BECOMES EXACTLY WHAT SHE INITIALLY DESPISED. A courtroom monkey lawyer “defending” actually… IMPOSING single individual’s selfish ideals over that of entire communities, towns, cities, or even countries.

     Jessica is a absolute proof of stupidity. When you think back to all the problems and can’t even identify that maybe you could have done things a little differently as to not hurt so many people, you have proven your immaturity, selfishness, and arrogance beyond a reasonable doubt.

     All of this for a 50 year old plaque that did no harm to her or anyone else.

     Congratulations.

     Jessica proves that she is dumber than a rock because she has absolutely no conscience for the media circus, cost, or problems she has caused. People that were once friends are now at odds with each other. She is despised not so much for the plaque but because she is simply nothing more than a trouble maker. She and her idiotic family rolled into town, pissed people off and now is leaving with her cowardly tail in between her legs. How about showing some REAL COURAGE. How about letting your school set you up with a microphone and APOLOGIZING to the entire school, staff, and students for all the problems you caused instead of focusing on your education? No? Apologizing is too mature a move? They probably understand.

     Athiests are like Al-Quaeda, but with lawyers. Jessica is the anti-peace activist for now and their temporary face of the movement in Cranston.

     As a non religious person myself, I feel ashamed and embarrassed that such lunatic fringe exists, I can say I feel like a regular liac muslim and the athiests are Al-Quaeda, causing trouble with everyone wherever they reside. Now everyone looks at people like me like terrorists. Jessica hurt the non-religious community more than helped. If Jessica was a hostage negotiator, she would have caused the death of the victims, the successful suicide of the hostage takers, and probably allowed the bomb to go off from sheer stupidity of a failed plan from the beginning. Jessica has more in common with historical tyrants than she could ever imagine, problem is, she is too ignorant to even realize it.

     Hitler was non religious during his most dark and evil days period, an EXACT PERFECT ATHIEST. Why? Simple, the signs were there, ONE SINGLE TYRANT DICTATED TO A MAJORITY HOW THINGS SHOULD BE. Saddam was an atheist and did not believe in Allah and was a devout consumer of pork, pornography, and western luxury lifestyle. 1.8 million victims of his tyranny. Most tyrants are ATHIESTS, you have to be mainly because you have no belief in any higher power and the #1 thing ……

     Your belief trumps everyone else’s. No matter how much damage you cause, no matter how many people are caught in the crossfire, no matter how many friendships you destroy or how many enemies you create, NOTHING MATTERS BUT YOUR IDEOLOGY. They are wrong, you are right. You are one single person, they are tens, hundreds, thousands, millions, tens of millions, billions. Nothing matters but the cause. You will use anyone to win and you will even go so far as to use their own laws against them in the most nefarious and malicious ways. Nothing matters but you….”and if you have to… you will take the world down with you”…. sound familiar? It should, that is the thought of the Iranian Islamic clerics threatening the world with a nuclear holocaust.

     This isn’t a case about one simpleton girl being right and everyone else being wrong, this is nothing more than a media publicity circus led by a lunatic father who propped up his BRAINWASHED daughter in an ideological/political/religious fight against far too many people and chose easy litigation to win. TYRANT AND VICTIM – Jessica, JACKBOOT NAZIS – ACLU, INNOCENT VICTIMS – ENTIRE TOWN. Now everyone in that town is at ideological and religious odds with each other, friends become enemies, people fight among themselves, and the media circus eats it up and laughs at them. The only profiteers are the cockroach lawyers with media attention and tabloid celebrity status.

     Jessica felt at out of place at her school. HOW DOES SHE FEEL NOW? Did she makes lots and lots of friends? How’s that spring dance invitation going? Not really all that well?? All the morons blowing smoke up her azz now will disappear soon enough. The vultures fly away after the carcass has been eaten completely.

     In the real world, MAJORITY DOES RULE CONSIDERING THEY ARE THE ONES RUNNING THE TOWN. One lone dumb girl being led by an even dumber parent does not a valiant fight make.

     The only court involvement here should have been CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES, DCF, and the local Police. The father should be put in A FEDERAL PRISON right now for EXTREME corruption of a minor ’cause clearly this crap started a long time ago. Putting a 16 year old as the temporary face of the atheist movement is akin to using 16 year olds strapped with dynamite to blow up Israeli markets as a symbol of freedom or to endorse communism and Hitler youth movements. Pure repugnant filth. These so-called adults should be thrown in a deep septic tank full of diseased feces and left there to perish. None of them even care one ounce for the brain washing tool they will so casually dispense when they are done.

     Bottom line : These adult human sized cockroaches took a 16 year old girl, turned her into an ideological monster, then gave her the power to litigate with an army of corrupt NAZI lawyers who lack any soul, conscience, or moral compass to tell this girl she is better off focusing on her education and learning that in life one person does not forcefully dictate to majorities how they should conduct their town, schools, or business as long as they don’t hurt anyone else. Live and let live??? Remember that one??? Why is anyone so shocked that Christian folks are fed up with being bullied by a bunch of lunatic fringe Atheists? This plaque was there 50 freakin’ years folks, 50 years!!! It was part of the school’s history and on that ground alone I myself concede that one person doesn’t have the right to take it down on a whim. That is lunacy.

     The end result was a girl who became hated, reviled, scorned, and even ignored by people who at one time did not know she even existed. The only “support” she received was mainly from other ideological nutjobs who will offer her little beyond a pathetic letter or e-mail saying how “brave” she was. A cheap worthless e-mail.

     *** If Jessica had stared a petition and gotten everyone to agree, the school would have no choice but to listen to the many voices that would have supported her, that is how Martin Luther King would have done it, no???? INSTEAD, she chose the route most tyrants choose… FORCE. That goes against the very fabric of the constitution which allows us to have freedoms as long as they don’t infringe on others and unless that plaque was used as a throwing star against her or somehow “tased her bro” then what harm did it really cause her?? Seriously???? So freakin’ what, so it said holy blah blah blah blah…. did it injure her in any way that now she can’t look at signs without a panic attack??? Was she ever forced to sit in a chair while being water-boarded with that plaque? Somebody say something? Seriously…. I gotta hear a rational response here.

     Has every person surrounding this girl lost their ability to use common sense and just tell her to just shut up and finish her homework???????

     When you weight the amount of hatred, hurt, and problems started by this stupid child and her sewer rat father, can anyone honestly say it was all worth it? Who in their right mind would could say that this event actually brought people together instead of ripping them apart? What pompous idiotic pseudo-intellectual d*uche can justify this? There were no witch burning or stoning events, no murders and genocides, no midnight sacrifices or demonic rituals, no one was in any mortal danger. Seriously, this non-event over a 50 year old plaque was turned into a media circus and resulted in nothing but misery for most people and the real culprits – father, lawyers, and media circus should all be SHARING THE SAME UNDERGROUND FEDERAL PRISON CELL AWAITING A LIFE SENTENCE FOR ENDANGERMENT TO SOCIETY AS A WHOLE. These nutjobs want to turn America into an Israeli Palestinian conflict zone and are the anti-thesis to anyone in history that ever inspired peace, tolerance, and respect. Perhaps a 30 year stretch with books teaching them to help people get along instead of ripping them apart would do many of these fake azz pseudo-intellectual retards(my apologies to retards) some good. If you take a minute and look at the big picture instead of the tiny corner, you will come to the same conclusion. We are too big a country population wise to have lone simple minded impressionable selfish 16 year old girls FORCEFULLY LITIGATE hundreds, thousands, and one day possibly millions of people into how they perceive schools, towns, and society should be run. ALL THIS BASED SOLELY ON SHEER WHIMS, SELFISHNESS, AND OPINION. Suggest , inquire, or ask, yes, but to litigate and force? Sheer absolute madness. You might as well ask this 16 year old girl how to resolve the Fukishima nuclear problem without any knowledge of nuclear reactors. How about all you pseudo-intellectual d*uches ask her how the entire world should be run??? Pitiful, pathetic, and truly sad….and so little by little….America slides into decline on the whims of idiots and a morally empty and corrupt media cheering the next time slot filler in their useless crappy news channel devoid of anything of substance……..and all you morons who praised and facilitated this girl’s madness should be ashamed of yourselves. Ironically, you are as intolerant and ignorant as the lunatic fringes of those you condemn.

     
     
     • on February 24, 2012 at 3:43 pm | Reply Don

       More Christian bullshit.
       bent & twisted truth=lies

       
       
208. on January 26, 2012 at 8:07 am | Reply Steve

     Sebass: your rant amazes me. How long did you spend writing that…. over an hour? I doubt you are an atheist even. If obeying the Constitution makes me intolerant and ignorant, so be it. Your vitriolic comments prove what a coward you are, hiding behind a keyboard like an internet tough-guy.

     
     
     • on January 27, 2012 at 10:43 pm | Reply Sebastian

       First off Steve, no one is hiding, she, her parent, even the police can contact my e-mail anytime. They have it. Second, I type very fast and think even faster. Sorry I can’t be as slow and dim witted as you. You know who the cowards are??? The scummy lawyers who don’t know her but want to offer her jobs now because they see her as someone with no moral compass or remorse. The ACLU garbage that is willing to use a 16 year old girl for their religious/political/theocratic wars. The media slime that is using her for a slot filler on the evening news. The idiots like you who might encourage this girl to head down a road she will sooner or later regret and take years of therapy to get over.

       One thing morons like you forget is that she is a child who is being coddled and told that litigation was the ONLY WAY.

       There is no hatred in my post, JUST THE COLD UNCOMFORTABLE HONEST TRUTH.

       If that hurts you too, then do the Jessica “wrap the constitution around myself” dance and try and sue me too for not kissing her azz.

       Jessica is no superhero. She is no upholder of truth, justice and the America way. She is a dumb pre-programmed tool used by her father, the media, and the ACLU as an INDIRECT and SLIMY attack on a HISTORICAL plaque that was there BEFORE SHE WAS BORN.

       I don’t care if that plaque said “Allah hangs out with Jesus, Shiva, Buddha and plays poker against the house titleholder Zeus on Saturday nights while wishing Cranston football a great home game.”

       1.) She took away the right of the townsfolk, students, and school staff to decide what to do WITH THEIR SCHOOL’S PROPERTY. That my dim witted friend is called TYRANNY. When you don’t believe in something, that is one thing, WHEN YOU IMPOSE YOUR NON-BELIEF OR OPINIONS ON EVERYONE ELSE, well, my constitutionally dimwitted friend, isn’t that the something called tyranny, persecution, and intolerance? You libs are all big on tolerance and democracy right? You are free to believe in whatever you want or don’t want to. I guess that doesn’t extend to the students, staff, and faculty at Cranston, does it? What happened to voting, oh yeah, only important when it benefits you.

       2.) Jessica sees justice like 2nd generation welfare recipients. CASH MONEY BABY!!!

       3.) Take a look at all the pissed off people on all 3 sides of the isle. The Christians – understandibly so. The Atheists – well, they pee themselves over anything….. and …… of course, the people caught in the middle you hurt the most which are more than you would expect. Taxpayers, students, school staff, and townsfolks.

       Jessica did not fight some crazy religious psychotics bent on child sacrifices at the full moon. She was never forced to do anything, not pray, not read anything, NOTHING. You know Steve, the same thing that is in your head. NOTHING.

       Let me repeat this for very slow and “SPECIAL” people like you Steve.

       She FORCEFULLY removed a HISTORICAL plaque which HAPPENED TO HAVE RELIGIOUS OVERTONES. Removing it was removing HISTORY more than it was any religion. You might as well REMOVE MARTIN LUTHER KING FROM FEBRUARY AND THE EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM because oh well, “Free at last!!! THANK GOD ALMIGHTY!!! FREE AT LAST!!”

       But what does he know, he was just some nutjob religious negro? ISN’T THAT RIGHT STEVE?

       Did you also happen to know that the passage was written by a child? Wow, what an evil plaque. What a danger to society.

       “The prayer banner was written by a seventh grade student in 1963, and it asks “Our Heavenly Father” to help all the students at Cranston High School West to “do our best” and “to be kind.” ”

       So, a SEVENTH GRADE STUDENT is somehow a THREAT TO HUMANITY, THE US CONSTITUTION, and THE WORLD….. and so with the courage of a 16 year old brainwashed ACLU tool, we are safe once again.

       ok Steve, whatever you say.

       
       
       • on February 18, 2012 at 10:23 am | Reply Deadhound

         First of, you said that atheists has been tyrants and imply that no religous people have ever been… That’s a huge load of BULSHIT. Get you facts right. Europeaen countries have been ruled by ONE monarch. That monarch got his “power” from the church. They were tyrants. They did not share their power or let the mayority choose. They had partways one overlord, the pope. There have been one instance of a kid pope, the kid pope raped and killed whenever i felt like it. The church set out an war in the middle-east to gain control of Jerusalem, instead of first trying to get an agreement that all parties can use the “holy city”. Under the crusades some cities were complitly slaughtered. Not ONE person was alive. And of course they had God with them…
         When the church had no use for the Temple Knights, they together with the French monarch (crowned by the Pope) tortured them to get confession of doing vile things and going against the church.

         Another thing the church has done was sending the inquisitors with the spanish warriors to America, most South-America. Were the Incas, Mayas and other people living there were roasted alive for example.

         Don’t come here and tell me that religious people are so much better than atheists.
         Here is an explenation of Atheism.
         Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.
         Meaning that if you do not believe in one or more god(s) then your an atheist.

         What she did was compleltly right, as the Americans have state and church seperated it have nothing at all do to in a public school. They did get the choice to remove the religious words and they said no, we won’t listen to you (or something like that)

         
         
     • on January 28, 2012 at 12:51 pm | Reply mark

       “Get ‘em Seabass!” from the movie Dumb and Dumber keeps coming to mind when you wrote “Sebas”.

       Nice Steve.

       
       
209. on January 26, 2012 at 7:44 pm | Reply Nora

     Jessica!
     Wow that last angry commenter… Amazing, just baffling but then again not surprising.
     Please be strong and stay safe, some of these zealots will kill doctors over abortion, drown there own children to save them from hell or fly planes into building for virginal sex… No of course not all religious people are like this, which is kind of bad in its own right…how can people stand for this kind of bigotry, ignorance and hatred in their own religion, why aren’t more Christians supporting you and defending you againsts those hateful students… Because they feel the same way silently, because they don’t care, or because they don’t know what’s being thrown at you…

     You see it over and over again, they claim you were offended… No you saw a constitutional law being violated and have had it fixed.

     They say you ruined their free speech, nope they can still do what they wish, the banner doesn’t belong on a publicly funded school

     If Cranston residents want a Christian school they can build one, but they want a free school so they get a religiously sterile one.

     Christians should thank you for setting it right, what if an islamic prayer was posted by a majority in a public school, they would have a fit!

     Secularists like you Jessica are defending everyone’s rights, your not being selfish or intolerant.

     Funny how the fangs come out when we challenge a belief one holds.. When people challenge evolution I don’t get angry or cuss me out, wish them death…. I laugh. Because I don’t need faith to understand reality, so my belief and knowledge are not under threat of anyone’s personal opinions.. But obviously people being offended by nonbelievers upholding the law are uncertain in their fortitude and when you put a scared small animal in a corner it lashes out…

     You were in the right, the school wasted tax money and I hope you are safe in your hometown. Please please stay safe, these dilluted fuckers can go off the deep end and it ony takes one..

     Much love from Seattle. I have to say my husband wasn’t surprised by your story little town in rhode island obviously an uphill battle. I know you will do great things for this struggling country that obviously is being choked to death by godbotherers

     
     
210. on January 26, 2012 at 11:13 pm | Reply gam

     jessica,
     hypocrite. freedom of speech applies to all, not just 16yr old opinionated know-alls.
     get over it princess.
     australia

     
     
     • on January 27, 2012 at 11:50 pm | Reply Sebastian

       Finally, somebody that understands the matter.

       That a 16 year old’s opinion was placed above….

       1.) The entire town of Cranston.
       2.) The entire student population of the school.
       3.) The entire school faculty.

       All these Atheist scumbags making this non-story into a big religious battle are nothing but lying sacks of crap. There was no religious persecution going on and they know it. The whole religious right wing blah blah blah crap is just an excuse because deep down inside they know this lol crusade… they started over nothing has no merit if they look at the lol…. crux of the matter… lol I can’t believe I actually got to use those terms, too funny….but anyway…

       This is nothing more than a media publicity tour. Even another poster down below states poor hurt Jessica is getting THOUSANDS IN CASHFLOW FOR COLLEGE.

       Yup, all for the ahem…. “justice”.

       Jessica is a 16 year old with not much understanding of the world in general so you really can’t hate someone like that, it’s pretty silly really. She is making a pretty hefty return on her investment though. College offers, lawyers offering her jobs, and of course the cashflow baby!

       The real travesty is what she did to her town and that is what most of these RADICAL FUNDAMENTALIST FAKE CONSTITUTION SUPPORTING TYRANTS don’t understand. Well, you know, born stupid, what’s to expect?

       All you have to do is take a look at so many of these posts to see how much anger and hurt she caused. For what? Removing a historical plaque with religious overtones written by a 7th GRADE CHILD IN 1963? Really? That’s the greatest unseen threat of the world these last 50 years. You want to talk victims, that plaque was a child’s wish for people to do their best and kindness. WOW!! That is some scary stuff!! Better call the ACLU to help us out, we just may be seeing the extinction of all of mankind!!!

       ALL YOU PEOPLE SUPPORTING THIS GIRL’S MONETARY AND ATTENTION CRUSADE ARE S U C K E R S

       She gained everything while her town got a media spectacle along with a theocratic/religious/political war.

       Well done, all in the name of ahem…. justice and the Constitution of course. Yup. Sure.

       In the words of W.C. Fields, “There’s a sucker born every minute!!! yuck yuck yuck, and all you have to do is wrap yourself in the Constitution, sue your school and ask help from the ACLU and other nutjobs while telling people how you are an innocent victim. Don’t worry, they will believe you because they are dumber than the morons who would allow this to get to court. yuck yuck yuck!!”

       
       
       • on February 18, 2012 at 10:31 am | Reply Deadhound

         If your so against the constitution then try to get a vote up for not having a speration of church and state.
         The banner shouldn’t have been up there in the first place. That little town this is all about is not the mayority ether, it’s the totall state (whole USA) that have choosen NOT to change the constitution. As said before, the church have killed very very many people. The pest which was in Europe some hundred years ago, spread very much by priest wandering to “save” people so they can go to heaven.

         The hurt of removing one little insignificant banner can’t be that much… And it was never said that the people in that town can’t go around screaming chants and prayers. They can pray how much they want to pray. What is the problem is that the school breaks the law.

         
         
211. on January 27, 2012 at 12:07 am | Reply Scott Beane

     Thanks for standing up against the religious bigots in the world. Keep growing in knowledge. Christians are silly people who literally believe god knocked up a virgin and then she had his son. Atheism is growing fast and they fear it. In a hundred years we’ll laugh at Christians for their silly beliefs like we do now with people who thought the world was flat. When God starts healing amputees then I will believe. Peace.

     
     
     • on January 27, 2012 at 3:05 pm | Reply Andrea

       This isn’t about christian and non-christian…I am non christian and a constitution lover but this was a frivilous battle to wage! Europe is on brink of financial collapse and we are next…there are so many other issues that need attention, not some message written by a child that happened to have GOD and Amen and prayer in the text….why don’t you and others see the bigger picture? This only took away and provided nothing to the community. I hope Jessica learns from this and chooses a more important battle to wage next time.

       
       
212. on January 27, 2012 at 12:13 am | Reply Jerry Ochs

     Jessica,

     How very odd that so many people who claim to love Jesus would love to see you crucified.
     Oh well. Just turn the other cheek.

     
     
213. on January 27, 2012 at 1:04 am | Reply Anthony

     Sebastian,

     Wow. Now that’s what I call a wall of text.
     You don’t have anything better to do?

     If students prefer prayers on the walls, perhaps they should transfer to private religious schools.

     If the majority always ruled, we’d probably still have slavery in the US and no women’s suffrage. Even many women of that time were against it.

     The vast majority of people used to believe the world was flat. Were they right simply because they were the majority? No.

     Quite frankly, the majority is often wrong; one of the key purposes of the constitution is to defend the rights of all people equally.

     If enough muslims moved to your town to become the majority within a year, how would you feel if prayers to Allah were posted on the walls? Or pork was banned from the cafeteria? They’re the majority now, so according to your flawed logic you should be happy with both.

     
     
     • on January 28, 2012 at 12:22 am | Reply Sebastian

       Dear Anthony.

       Are you and Steve brothers because he exhibits the same level of ignorance as you. Maybe geminis? Who knows, but there certainly is some defective dna linking among you both. You comparisons are quite frankly insulting to history and offensive. To compare the people fighting slavery or the rights of women to vote to this non-story is frankly worse than having to sit through your special education style muslim comparison at the end. Which is worse? Toss a coin.

       Here, let me break this down for you if you didn’t get a chance to read my response to “Special Steve”.

       That was a plaque with RELIGIOUS OVERTONES written by a 7th grade CHILD STUDENT OF CRANSTON back in 1963. At least learn about the plaque before you comment. It is about friendship, caring, goodwill and all things that are POSITIVE TO EVERYONE. It said Holy Father, WHOOP DEE DOO!!!! Apparently it was there for over 50 years and not one student crapped their pants and felt like they were attacked by a band of roving Christian attack wolves.

       It was NOT SCRIPTURE. It was NOT anything other than a child’s wishes for kindness. The fact that this was turned into a battle for freedom from religious oppression IS LAUGHABLE AND RIDICULOUS.

       Going by your IDIOTIC LOGIC. The posting of Martin Luther King’s speech would be banned due to him “BEING FREE AT LAST, THANK ALMIGHT GOD FREE AT LAST!!”

       Of course discussing Martin Luther King would be banned because he was a Minister and believed in God.

       DO YOU SEE THE CRAZINESS IN YOUR NON-LOGIC YET?

       ***By the way, this teenager is very smug and certainly is enjoying her 15 minutes of fame that laster 14 minutes 59 seconds too long.

       Too bad she doesn’t recognize the amount of damage she did to her community because then she wouldn’t smile at all and pose with so many old fart ACLU clowns and slimy media slugs.

       Jessica is no hero, there was no battle, there was no persecution, she is not a victim of anything in that school, however she is a victim of her father’s RAPE OF HER CHILDHOOD. She is profiting pretty well now. Expect a movie deal soon for lifetime channel.

       She simply pissed off allot of people who called her a TROUBLE MAKER and wanted to kick her azz. Many of the students are pissed that she caused problems at her school and TOOK AWAY THEIR RIGHT TO DECIDE. No a very freedom loving thing to do, now is is Anthony.

       Let me ask you something Anthony, if someone in your school put you and every student out of the loop on deciding something about your school, wouldn’t you be a little bothered? How about we hold the next elections without you and Steve? How about your votes count for nothing and we let Jessica vote for you instead?

       Tyranny, for you Anthony, in case you are unfamiliar with that concept because you seem to accept it as normal behavior.

       You can believe or not believe in what you want, but when you set out to cause trouble for an entire town with a frivolous lawsuit over a NON EXISTENT persecution, don’t be shocked when they want to kick in your teeth.

       Freedom is a two way street. Jessica VS the ENTIRE TOWN OF CRANSTON. Guess who can get pissed off allot more?

       ps. I have been to Cranston and other parts of RI and have met some of the nicest people who did me no harm and not once asked me about God or my beliefs even while viewing many such sight inspired by both religion and history. Did I sue? Was I blinded? Did I suffer religious persecution? That town along with much of Rhode Island has a long history with religion, and for better or worse is NOT UP TO SOME 16 YEAR OLD SPOILED SELF CENTERED CHILD TO TRY AND ERASE.

       In the end Anthony, that plaque was HISTORY more than anything else…… and like the Taliban which blew up the Buddhist statues, so did Jessica eliminate her little Buddhist statues that annoyed her.

       
       
       • on February 18, 2012 at 10:38 am | Reply Deadhound

         What you want is this?
         The phrase “tyranny of the majority” (or “tyranny of the masses”), used in discussing systems of democracy and majority rule, is a criticism of the scenario in which decisions made by a majority under that system would place that majority’s interests so far above a dissenting individual’s interest that the minority would be actively oppressed, just like the oppression by tyrants and despots.

         The little piece of history was breaking the law, the school was promoting religion. If the school was setting up ads for other things shuch as food and entertainment industries. Would that also be OK?
         In my eyes, it’s the same thing.

         Jessica vs Cranston… What about this instead
         The entire world non-christian and christans that think such things doesn’t have anything to do in school vs Religious Cranston and maybe som belivers. That is what this is about.

         
         
       • on February 24, 2012 at 4:12 pm | Reply Don

         You call anybody who disagrees with you “stupid.” To that I quote Forrest Gump, “Mama always said stupid is as stupid does.”

         
         
214. on January 27, 2012 at 4:34 am | Reply JohnnyInGA

     It warms my atheist heart to see a young woman such as yourself — intelligent, questioning, logical and principled. You’ve set out your arguments clearly with aplomb, dignity and respect for others despite the personally directed vitriol and hate. The embrace if not downright pride that fools such at Tom et al. have in their own ignorance — from basic science to fundamental constitutional principles — is, well, dispiriting — I’m not sure if its an indictment of the indoctrination of religion warping impressionable minds or the utter failure of our schools. You’ve a very bright future — a lot of these posters, eh, not so much. LOL Stay strong and wishing you much success in the future.

     
     
     • on January 27, 2012 at 3:02 pm | Reply Andrea

       Standing up for the Constitution is great! But fight something like NDAA, SOPA, PIPA SENATE BILL S510…..Not a banner that held a message we should all live by! This is disappointing that people like you don’t see the greater point in all of this! This was not a battle worth waging and in the end…no one has more food on their plates, no one is safer, no one is a better person…all that was managed was for the town to be ripped apart when we should all be unified right now…we are in bad times in this country and wasting money on things like this is shameful and not encouraged…and i am not religious and am a firm believer of the constitution but this is a ridiculous frivilous battle to wage! I am mortified at those spewing hatred towards this girl but i am also saddened that people like you and others actually congratulate this girl when every day our rights in this country are being stripped more and more!

       
       
215. on January 27, 2012 at 6:11 am | Reply WillKo

     Very brave of you, Jessica.

     
     
216. on January 27, 2012 at 6:50 am | Reply John

     What about my rights to pray. You are a selfish child. Mind your own business and get over it.

     
     
     • on January 27, 2012 at 7:49 pm | Reply Anthony

       Nobody said you can’t.

       
       
     • on January 28, 2012 at 4:49 pm | Reply Kyle

       Nobody said you can’t is right. I have certainly prayed to Mercury in school, but I kept it to myself, between me and my God. I didnt make it into a banner and hang it in a space that should be secular, or make anyone else feel like they had to pray with me.

       
       
217. on January 27, 2012 at 7:05 am | Reply James

     Well, perhaps the majority of american tax payers who believe in God, should stop funding public schools. Freedom of religion gives all americans the right to worship their god in their own way. Since atheass have no god, they should shut the hell up and leave the religous politics to those who are going to heaven. However, my god is a forgiving god, and very patient, I’ll be praying for you alllike it or not.

     
     
218. on January 27, 2012 at 7:20 am | Reply Jeff

     Jessica, I’ve just read the recent article on MSNBC originally printed by the NYT. As an atheist myself, I’m very proud of you and you should be very proud of yourself. Know that many of us stand beside you in this continual fight for separation of church and state and equal rights for all people.

     “Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should ‘make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,’ thus building a wall of separation between church and State.” –Thomas Jefferson, letter to Danbury Baptist Association, CT., Jan. 1, 1802

     
     
219. on January 27, 2012 at 7:30 am | Reply savitra

     Hang in there! Many of us support you. The hatred and anger directed at you are a prime example of why we need the First Amendment, they are exactly what this country was founded about – to make sure such ignorant and hateful people did not prevent anyone from an equal opportunity to have a good life, including education, simply because of their religious beliefs. The radical expressions of anger show that it is not just a “slippery slope” from having a poster of the kind you are protesting to religious fascism, it is hovering right under the surface, and we must continue to be vigilant and active against it.

     
     
     • on January 27, 2012 at 3:00 pm | Reply Andrea

       Standing up for the Constitution is great! But fight something like NDAA, SOPA, PIPA SENATE BILL S510…..Not a banner that held a message we should all live by! This is disappointing that people like you don’t see the greater point in all of this! This was not a battle worth waging and in the end…no one has more food on their plates, no one is safer, no one is a better person…all that was managed was for the town to be ripped apart when we should all be unified right now…we are in bad times in this country and wasting money on things like this is shameful and not encouraged…and i am not religious and am a firm believer of the constitution but this is a ridiculous frivilous battle to wage! I am mortified at those spewing hatred towards this girl but i am also saddened that constitution lovers like you and others actually congratulate this girl when every day our rights in this country are being stripped more and more!

       
       
220. on January 27, 2012 at 7:49 am | Reply Jerry

     Good…No… Excellent Job Jessica.

     
     
221. on January 27, 2012 at 8:55 am | Reply david rob

     HEY DOPPEY LITTLE GIRL. WHERE IS YOUR MORALS. YOU THREW OUT GOD. NOW YOU WANT US TO SEE HOW WELL YOU CAN LIVE LIFE WITH OUT GOD. WHO WILL YOU CRY TO WHEN YOUR IN A BAD SPOT? IF ITS GOD YOUR NOT AN ATHIEST. I THINK THE COURT NEEDS TO PROVE TO THE TAX PAYER SHE REALLY IS ANTHEIST. I DONT THINK SHE IS. WORDS MEAN VERY LITTLE AND ACTIONS AND WHAT YOU DO SPEAK ALOT LOUDER. SO WHO DID YOU SPEAK WITH AND GET ADVICE FROM TO DO THIS? HAVE YOU ASKED THEM TO GUIDE YOU THROUGH YOUR TIME OF TRIBULATIONS AND MOMENTS OF UNCERTAINTY? WILL THEY GIVE YOU STREGNTH WHEN NOBODY WILL. WILL A PAID LAWYER LISTEN TO YOUR COMPLAINTS AND WANT TO SUE EVERYONE. OR DO YOU LISTEN TO YOURSELF. IF YOUR DAD GETS HURT IN A FIRE WOULD YOU NOT CRY OUT THAT ONLY YOU CAN SAVE HIM IF YOU WERE THERE. OR WOULD GOD GIVE HIM THE STREGNTH HE NEEDS? THINK BEFORE YOU ACT. BECOUSE NOW IF YOU DONT HAVE GOD ON YOUR SIDE YOUR ALL ALONE NOW. AND YOU ONLY CAN ASK YOURSELF FOR THE STREGNTH TO GET YOUR SELF OUT OF THIS. YOU SAID YOU READ THE SIGN AND FELT YOU DONT BELONG. YOU DONT. AND NOW THAT YOU DENOUNCE THE FAITH OF BILLIONS OF PEOPLE AND WIPED IT IN THERE NOSE DONT YOU FEEL WE SHOULD ALL JUST GET ALONG. IF YOU WERE IN A BAD SPOT WOULD YOU NOT CRY OUT FOR GOD? COUSE I DONT BELIEVE YOU. YOUR DAD CRYS OUT FOR GOD. ILL BET YOU DO TO. AND IF YOU DO, I WILL SUE YOU AND YOUR WHOLE FAMILY TIL THERE OUT IN THE STREETS. YOU DISGUSTING AND YOUR A LIER. YOU WILL FIND OUT IF THERE IS A HELL. YOU ARE NOT APART OF THE SOLUTION FOR THIS COUNTRY. WE NEED PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IN THEM SELF AND A GOD. IF YOU WERE INVOLVED IN A RELIGION YOU WOULD SEE THE JOYESNESS AND GRATITUDE FOR LIFE AND THE UNDERSTANDING EACH PERSON HAS IN THERE HEARTS. YOU HAVE MADE PEOPLE SHUT THERE MOUTH ABOUT THE LORDS HAPPYNESS IN THERE HEARTS. WHY? YOU DONT HAVE HAPPYNESS IN ATHIEISM CHURCH. WHEN HAVE ALL THE ATHIESTS GOTTEN TOGETHER AND HAD A HOLIDAY. OR EVEN SHARED THERE PERSONAL CONQUEST THROUGH TROUBLED TIMES AND THE ATHIEST GOD SHOWED UP AND HELPED??? PLEASE RESPOND.

     
     
     • on January 27, 2012 at 9:26 am | Reply Jeff

       -Sheesh! Reading through these posts…Christian’s, might I suggest you nominate someone intelligible and coherent to provide posts here…otherwise your position cannot be taken seriously.

       …a control of the “Caps Lock” button should also be in there repertoire…

       
       
       • on January 27, 2012 at 11:46 am | Reply Sean M Masters

         Jessica should be commended for putting the US Constitution above her personal beliefs.

         You should strive to do the same.

         
         
     • on January 28, 2012 at 4:45 pm | Reply Kyle

       Dear David Rob,

       I have morals and joy, and I don’t worship your God. I am, according to your Bible, whoring after “false gods” and praying to demons. Yet, I seem to have better morals than you do. I am not calling anyone mopey or saying I would sue them or make allusions to their parents being in a fire. No one is stopping you from having joy in your chosen deity, but we don’t need it shoved down our collective throats. I feel joy in my deities, and you don’t see me shoving them down anyone’s throat, or putting up prayer banners in a space that should be secular? Everyone belongs, and no one is alone, especially not Jessica. I would be proud to have Jessica Ahlquist as a friend, and despite our differences, I would open myself to friendship with you to. Hows that for non-christian morality?

       
       
222. on January 27, 2012 at 10:23 am | Reply Karen

     As several posters have said, I am concerned with the level of anger that seems to be directed at someone who is also exercising her rights to express her opinion. I was raised in a Christian household – no longer “practice” church stuff but have my own spiritual beliefs that I live by and we have instilled in our children – essentially, living by the Golden Rule. It does bother me a bit that “God” references are everywhere, including on our currency, as if everyone had the same belief. So, I try to think of “God” references as a universal belief in something – but, that is still really a compromise for me. I steadfastly believe in a separation of church and state – and what our citizens need to remember is that the concept of church and state needs to evolve as our democracy evolves – we are not living in the 1700′s any longer. It is amazing that as much of our forefathers’ thoughts remain relevant as it does. They were brilliant thinkers in a time when most people barely made it past 50 – they did a lot of living and thinking in a very short period of time . . . so, my point here is that if we want to live in a society that celebrates our freedom from civil wars and massacres and ethnic cleansing, then we need to truly separate the church from the state and live by the Golden Rule – does that mean that the prayer should remain on the wall in a high school? Only if the prayers and statements of everyone else also get wallpapered to the wall. Otherwise, children going to school every day are learning that the prayer to a god is the way it is – it is a PUBLIC school – not a church associated school. Students should learn about everyone’s beliefs not just one – since it is really impractical to do that, I suggest it does not belong in school.

     
     
223. on January 27, 2012 at 11:44 am | Reply Sean M Masters

     Jessica, you’re awesome.

     Standing up for the rights and privileges detailed in the Constitution is something all Americans should strive to do, whether the document supports or conflicts with our personal beliefs, our sexual preference, or our religious beliefs.

     
     
     • on January 27, 2012 at 2:58 pm | Reply Andrea

       Standing up for the Constitution is great! But fight something like NDAA, SOPA, PIPA SENATE BILL S510…..Not a banner that held a message we should all live by! This is disappointing that people like you don’t see the greater point in all of this! This was not a battle worth waging and in the end…no one has more food on their plates, no one is safer, no one is a better person…all that was managed was for the town to be ripped apart when we should all be unified right now…we are in bad times in this country and wasting money on things like this is shameful and not encouraged…and i am not religious and am a firm believer of the constitution but this is a ridiculous frivilous battle to wage! I am mortified at those spewing hatred towards this girl but i am also saddened that constitution lovers like you and others actually congratulate this girl when every day our rights in this country are being stripped more and more!

       
       
224. on January 27, 2012 at 12:11 pm | Reply mark

     I am a Roman Catholic and I support your energy on this. I would personally like to see the prayer stay, after all it has been there over sixty years, but change is good I suppose.
     Nothing lasts forever.

     Your time in school will in a few years become a memory as you move on to college and grow older and I hope as you do grow older you will have good, fun memories of your time in high school.

     Have you ever read ‘Middlemarch’ by George Eliot?

     
     
225. on January 27, 2012 at 12:20 pm | Reply J Taylor

     Reading what seems like hours or is it days, of people ranting at Jessica and banging their religious drums because she believes that she should not (as our constitution promises), have to be subjected to the religious views of others, brings from me the need to respond.

     I am a 63 year old (yes atheist), who has always been offended by what I view as religious people and organizations wanting me to believe what they do and if I don’t then I am at least deficient or guilty. Like Jessica, I have been subjected to having to view prayers and religious sayings which I personally find offensive and when younger even prayers in school.

     I see similarities in approach between those diatribes that have gone before here and what most Americans view as the dangerous views of the militant Islamist… “Believe as I do or….”

     One’s religious beliefs should be observed in private and in the church or temple of their choosing not on the walls of our public schools. The problems occur when religious people want everyone else to behave and view the world as they do. One of the reasons our ancestors came to this country and especially Rhode Island, was to escape oppression by the religious.

     And yes to respond to someone earlier I am offended when someone says “God bless you” when I sneeze.

     
     
226. on January 27, 2012 at 12:28 pm | Reply mark

     PS– next time if you pose for a photo on this– try to look friendlier. you’ll be amazed how just a friendly smile can lessen anger in people. I mean this with as much respect as possible. Your msnbc photo portrays you as being rather smug. In my opinion.

     I’m also just thinking of this, have you considered volunteer work at a hospice or a soup kitchen?

     I have tried several different volunteer experiences, reading to the dying at a hospice, preparing meals for the “shut ins” with Meals on Wheels and have done soup kitchen work.

     To be honest, reading to the hospice was the best. The soup kitchen was in the basement of a church and suffered from lack of ventilation. Things got smelly. But the homeless are good people.

     I’m just saying volunteer work may help you feel good.

     
     
227. on January 27, 2012 at 12:38 pm | Reply Jesus

     Dear Jessica Ahlquist,

     If I was alive right now I would high five you in the face with the old testament. Since i’m not i’ll just make sure you have a special place in Hell. But since you don’t believe in me out of curiosity just where will you go when you die? Oh that’s right I know; HELL because I am JESUS.

     
     
     • on February 18, 2012 at 10:49 am | Reply Deadhound

       Mr. Jesus.
       I’m dead and I have no problem with it. I am also a Hound, which gives me a little problem in writting on a computer in human language, but there is no barrier we can’t overcome. Atleasts for hounds, don’t know for humans.

       About the testament, if I remember correctly Jesus got hanged on the cross for forgivness far all of humanity (which is a little sad, because it doesn’t include animal.) Which give me another point, I can’t remember at all that you walked around and forcing your views on people. My memory may be a problem here, because I didn’t take to much time to look into human problems at that time.

       My last point. Hell isn’t all that bad. It does of course depend on which area you are in, it is splitted in different areas depending on what you did when you were alive. If you did bad things alive then you come to bad areas. And if you did things that You and your father didn’t like (being non-christian and doing science) then you come to some pretty good places. It’s been a couple of hundred years since last time I went to Hell, but I don’t think it has change that much.

       Sincerly Deadhound

       
       
228. on January 27, 2012 at 12:49 pm | Reply Elizabeth C

     Read this today. Remembered when I was in high school that I refused to say the pledge of allegiance due to the “under god” part of it. I didn’t get in trouble per se, but several of my teachers complained to my mother that I was a “communist” and a “bad influence”. So crazy. I’m sorry that you have had to endure so much vitriol, anger, and –frankly–terribly spelled and illogical commentary. But you are appreciated by those of us to whom civil rights and the separation of church and state actually *mean* something.

     
     
229. on January 27, 2012 at 12:52 pm | Reply Elizabeth C

     PS: Your picture is fine. And although volunteer work is indeed quite enjoyable, I’m sure standing up for what you believe in probably feels pretty good AS IT IS.

     
     
     • on January 27, 2012 at 1:06 pm | Reply mark

       yes, the picture is nice. I just think her expression can be construed as unfriendly and unconvincing–like Donald Trump I suppose but his facial expressions are so contrived anyway. I just think. I just think.

       She is much prettier smiling or not. back to my french fries and Downton Abbey replay. Great show.

       It is good to know when to let others have the final word.

       floor is yours. : )

       
       
230. on January 27, 2012 at 12:56 pm | Reply andy

     Just think,if this girl were in Iran she probally would be convicted and sentenced to die for her blasphemy.Evoloution cannot be proven nor can the existence of God.If you have a room of 20 people and 17 of them want pizza you get pizza.If the others don’t want it they don’t have to eat

     
     
     • on January 27, 2012 at 2:52 pm | Reply Andrea

       Thats a good analogy with the pizza because it also equates the level of importance of this issue….THERE WAS NONE!…There is too much crime, corruption, and countless other injustices going on for so much attention to be focused on a harmless banner on a wall that actually contained a beautiful message. What is wrong with us in this country that we can’t see that? I am not a religious person and don’t believe in the God or modern day religion as we have been told…we are on the brink of financial collapse in this country and a girl chose to fight a banner that held a message we should all live by! What is wrong with us in this country?? I shake my head and hang my head low today.

       
       
       • on January 31, 2012 at 11:44 am | Reply SteveInCO

         Andrea, you’ve been spamming these comments to complain about how Jessica isn’t spending her time on your pet issues (like SOPA).

         Well boo hoo. Her life and her time is her own. Deal with it.

         
         
231. on January 27, 2012 at 1:01 pm | Reply Demian

     Let me see if I can encapsulate all of the above comments:

     1. Those that are pro-religion, pro-Jesus, and decry Jessica’s objection to prayer in a secular school are, in the main, filled with hate, invective, delusion, ignorance and well — some are downright mental. It certainly supports Christopher Hitchens’ proposition that “religion poisons everything”.

     2. Those of atheists and those who understand the words of the Constitution are calm, reasoned and overwhelmingly supportive.

     Res ipsa loquitur — but I’m sure Jessica already knows what that means.

     PS: Liked your photo There’s nothing more beautiful than an intelligent, confident young woman.

     
     
     • on January 27, 2012 at 1:19 pm | Reply mark

       43. those that are pro- religious and pro- Jessica.

       Individually we are all capable of separating church and state.

       Does not smiling make someone look more intelligent and confident?

       
       
       • on January 27, 2012 at 1:19 pm | Reply mark

         43. should be 3.

         
         
     • on January 27, 2012 at 2:46 pm | Reply Andrea

       Read my message…not hateful, just honest reaction to all of this…I think you should look at my message, I am just an everyday person whose eyes have been opened in the past few years. Peace and all good things.

       
       
232. on January 27, 2012 at 1:08 pm | Reply JK

     Dear Jessica:

     I’ve read the NY Times article about u winning suit against your school of taking prayer poster down. U won. And school lost. However, the reason why you wanted the school to take it down because, since you are an athiest, it “violated” your rights. However, an athiest is someone who “believes” there is now God. If you “believe” there is no God, you are still a believer in that there is no God.

     I sure there will be a time in your life when you will cry out to God. And I am sure, with his love towards you, he will accept you as a sinner.

     
     
     • on February 18, 2012 at 10:53 am | Reply Deadhound

       The reason it was going down was because it violated the church-state separetion. Simply the school violated the law.

       
       
233. on January 27, 2012 at 1:22 pm | Reply ****

     This isn’t over and will follow you for the rest of your life.I hope you like what is going to happen because it isn’t going to ever be nice

     
     
234. on January 27, 2012 at 2:07 pm | Reply Shirah Garcia

     Dear Jessica,

     I commend you for standing up for what you believe is right. Church and State should be separate among other things. If the prayer was just simply a gift, then it should have been in a glass case with other school gifts and trophies. This way, there can be no confusion. Now, on another note, I am really tired of this nonsense and evil. Jessica you are a bright, intelligent, beautiful young woman who should not let anyone intimidate you. I was born and raised in the church and I choose to believe in God and Jesus Christ. I choose! No one made me or forced me, and believe me, I have had my moments where I was so angry with God and didn’t want to believe, but I remembered that bad things to do happen and this won’t last forever. Life is short and I choose to live it to its fullest. I can’t stand when people waste their life hating others. I wan’t you to know this, there are a lot of evil people in this world who are angry, bitter and just horrible, and they hide behind religions to force their rage and self disappointment on others. This is not what God wants. No one should force his or her religion or beliefs on anyone else. God wants people to come to Him on their own, not by force or threat or whining and complaining. The person won’t appreciate it if it is forced – they’ll resent it, and most are given the wrong information. One must learn all things for themselves. There are many fake Christians out here – many extremists. I call them crazy Christians! The bible speaks of them. False prophets – liars! they twist the word of God to suit their own purposes. They give me the creeps! If a person who calls themselves Christian calls anyone names, force their beliefs on anyone, bullies, threats, then they ARE NOT Christians. They are just plain evil people. You did nothing wrong. If a Muslim made me do what they wanted or anyone of any other religion tried to bully me I would go off. I have every right to believe in God just like you have every right not to. I have been verbally attacked by Muslims, and talked down to so I know how you feel. I don’t discuss religion, faith or beliefs with others. I mind my own business. If someone wants me to pray for them or with them, then I will or if they have questions, I ‘ll answer them to the best of my ability, but thats it. No one can tell you how to live or that you’re going to hell or whatever. The same people saying these horrible things are the same people most likely going themselves. Those type of people are screwed up in the head. Please remember that not all people who believe in God and Christ are bad. True Christians are not bad or judgemental, those who say they are Christians and act evil are not. God does not like that type of behavior – he loathes it. Its a mockery and it goes against everything He stands for. God is love, not hatred, not meaness, definitely not evil. People can fly planes into buildings, blow themselves up and call people names and make threats all they want – its not in the name of God, its in the name of themselves! They are punks hiding behind the face of religion and faith. God wants nothing to do with them or their actions. Evil is not tolerated. we should all take a stand against not the religions themselves, but the evil people hiding behind the religions. They are giving the good ones a bad name. Like dirty, cheating men who give even good men a bad name or like sour, gold digging women who give even good women a bad name. Its not right and I’m tired of it.
     Be at peace with yourself young lady, live and enjoy life, there’s a whole world to explore -have fun and do not – do not let anyone steal your joy. As long as you let people be themselves and you be yourself, and you remain respectful towards yourself and others, then you should be fine. And remember they’re only words, they may sting and they may disappoint, but they do not kill. You have the power to overcome anything. Rather you believe or not, no one can dictate your heaven nor your hell – your happiness or your misery.
     Please Be safe – some of these posts are alarming. I have a daughter, and I would be very upset because I know how cruel people are. Although you no longer believe in God, and thats fine and thats your business, i respect and understand your choice, but I do believe so I pray that God protects you and keeps you safe from those who are using this opportunity to be cold and evil. I pray that no one lays a finger on you, and that the threats and cruelty stop. That you be blessed with peace and continued courage. Believe it or not this situation has allowed the wolves with sheep’s clothings to show themselves and now I can see, even more, those I need to stay away from – I can’t stand a fake Christian. Atheist don’t bother me – fake Christians do! They make my blood boil. I can’t be bothered with any type of extremist. They are mean, cruel and can be violent. I can’t stand people who use God and Christ as a weapon and a means for being nasty.
     Be of good cheer my young sister. Fear no one, but always be smart. Choose your steps carefully. Sometimes its best to say nothing and just listen. Everything is not worth a response. Some people should be ignored. Trust no one, not even those who say they agree with you and say they are atheist. Avoid anyone who is extreme – they will turn on you quick. People will pretend to be anything or say anything to get close to you and to strike you down when you least expect it. It has happened to me. There are fakes in everything. Be careful and keep your guard up – learn to discern. Move on with life – its so much to experience. This will pass. Better things are waiting for you.
     Take Care Jessica

     
     
235. on January 27, 2012 at 2:14 pm | Reply Taylor Wright

     I couldn’t agree more!

     
     
236. on January 27, 2012 at 2:42 pm | Reply Andrea

     Jessica(and all who read this)-

     I am not sure what God I believe in, but I do believe that there is something greater than us, I am not a religious person, but perhaps spiritual…I am a firm believer in the Constitution (stop NDAA, SOPA, PIPA,SenateBillS510)
     …BUT…Perhaps there were more pressing matters that could have used your focus. We are on the brink of financial collapse all over this country! We are fighting wars that are corrupt! Killing women, children, and men! They have passed a law that can take you away in the middle of the night with no trial, no lawyers, no questions asked! We are eating foods made of Genetically Modified Organisms that are making animals sterile, what do you think it’s doing to us?
     But, you chose to fight a banner that in the end, all it was telling children was to be good, kind, productive..
     Maybe you should have stopped focusing on the GOD and AMEN and PRAYER and taken a good long hard look at the meat and potatoes of the banner. It was a beautiful message.
     Jessica- you will have many congratulating you, many despising and hating you…but i just find myself, a rational, civil, honest, hardworking and caring person shaking my head in disappointment in the war you chose to wage…When you think about it, when ALL is said and done, who is sleeping better in the town, who is safer, who has more food on the table? No one…absolutely no one benefits but your own ego…perhaps you will get book deals, a movie will be made….so yeah, one person will profit….you.
     This end up costing the town in taxes and legal bills.
     So I guess there sould be one thing you could do….we know you are a fighter…so any money you make, pick a fight that benefits the MAJORITY not just your own ego..your eyes to all that is going on around us in this Country and in this World…I’m sad that so much time and mnoney was wasted ripping a beautiful message off a wall…
     Andrea Schuler
     Allentown PA

     
     
     • on January 27, 2012 at 4:41 pm | Reply Bethany

       Fantastic post. Just another spoiled, entitled teenager with no concept of reality.

       
       
     • on January 31, 2012 at 11:46 am | Reply SteveInCO

       Andrea, you’ve been spamming these comments to complain about how Jessica isn’t spending her time on your pet issues (like SOPA).

       Well boo hoo. Her life and her time is her own. Deal with it.

       
       
237. on January 27, 2012 at 2:53 pm | Reply LovelyGirl

     Shirah is right Jessica, those aren’t true Christians. They’re evil punks! I’m not like that. A gift should be with other gifts, they think they’re slick. Don’t shove any religion or faith down people’s throats. Thats not biblical!
     Its like a forced marriage – they don’t love each other, they were forced so they don’t believe in it or feel it, and the first opportunity they get, they’ll abandoned the marriage – same with forced religion. One must discover it for themselves or it’ll be a waste of time. It won’t be true. I came to God on my own. I have been through a lot of bad things (sexual assault, physical and verbal abuse, a father who abandoned me and my mother, a still born, attempted murder on my life, being lied on and falsely accused of things at work, bad friends, etc) and I was pissed with God for allowing me to experience such horrible things, and turned my back on Him, but at the same time He was there for me as well. Plus those situations made me stronger and I got to know me. Times when I felt alone and abandoned by those who said they loved me – yeah right! God showed me love and that He is there for me. I don’t depend on man for anything. Man will disappoint you, but God has always shown me love even when I have lost loved ones, my job, money, etc. But when I pray (to myself and not in public for show) I feel better and feel more secure. I care and love others, but I cannot be so involved in others lives that I become a nut. Don’t argue with those crazy fools who call themselves Christians Jessica – its a waste. They are crazy and cultish. Don’t give them ammunition. Alot of them are twisted and have no idea what the hell they are talking about – they don’t know God like that – at all, and they don’t care. They are users and abusers. God is about freedom of choice, not us being his attack dog! You are none of those things people say you are. God loves you unconditionally no matter what is said or done. No one can judge you, no one is perfect and everyone has done something that is wrong or unfavorable or something that is frowned upon. Thats your business, as long as you don’t hurt others. No one is going to die from that prayer being taken down, no one developed cancer or a venereal disease from it. America has bigger problems, if anything they should remove all that cussing and sex from music and movies which is causing our children to grow up too fast. Movis and music were just fine before all of this crap. I hate when I am watching a movie and the first scene is a woman bent over with a man in her butt moaning obscenities! Then the next scene is someone cussing like a sailor! That doesn’t make the movie better. Humphrey Bogart and Audrey Heburn didn’t need all of that to make a good movie and I am 26 saying this! Forget prayers being taken down – do something about that and teen pregnancy and child molestors and rapist only getting 2 years in prison. This is what we should be angry about. Taxes going up, politicians fighting for themselves and not us and we voted their dumb lying asses in believing their crap and that goes to all of them, unaffordable gas prices and food prices and high ass college tuition no one can afford, but yet America wants us all to be educated, but won’t help to fund it. Germany helps out their kids and they aren’t struggling like we are! they don’t have sallie Mae harrassing them for more money capitalizing them by another few grand. This makes me angry not a prayer being taken down due to a courageous 16 yr old showing that she at least know the Constitution unlike the rest of our young Americans who don’t know squat, except how to use an iPhone – wow such intelligence. Get it together and stop making the animals ashamed to share the planet with us. I think we embarrass them!

     
     
238. on January 27, 2012 at 3:39 pm | Reply Terry Danson

     Andrea I agree.
     She could have chosen a better fight and yeah most likely Lifetime is working on her deal, and of course a book deal, but more and more atheist are becoming more and more agressive. Why? I don’t know. I guess because I’m a whatever type person. Jehovah’s witness’ bother me every chance they get, but whatever! I believe in God too, but back up! Get out my face cobras! I got this. Me and God are cool. I don’t need anyone’s input trying to scare me into believing what you believe. I’m going where if I don’t follow you?! Suuuuurrrre. Thats not what God said in the bible. See people you gotta learn for yourselves, don’t believe everything people tell you. No one can tell me I’m going to burn in hell. Thats cursing me and if I know God he can’t stand when people curse others! They’re messing themselves up.

     Back to you Andrea…heck, maybe Jessica needs the money and this is her ticket – I don’t know. Her parents don’t make much with their careers and she’s about to go off to college which is hiiiiiiiggggghhhh! I read she already got support money – $13,000.00!
     She looks sort of smug and egotistic in her MSNBC picture – like yeah, ah hah I woooooon! She’s a little too cheery for someone who says they are doing what is right, but hey she is a teenager – I mean you know how 16 year olds are. The girl is brave though and she is definitely getting the attention she wanted. She seemed like she was once very insecure and this was a means to get over that. But we have to remember this girl feels she was hurt and abandoned by God. Most atheist have been disappointed by God. They say Christians whine and complain, but what do you call a prson who gets angry when God does not do what they asked? Think about it.
     Atheist: Save my loved one!
     God: No. (They die – like we all must do – says it in the bible. Proof – people have died, are dying, and will die)
     Atheist: Why? How could you!
     God: No answer
     Atheist: I hate you! You don’t exist! what kind of God who says he loves let someone die! Or get sick or get hurt or lose money or their job. Bad things should not happen, even though you said it would because death was chosen over life in the book of Genesis, and there is an evil entity working against us! You don’t exist anymore and I am going to tell everyone and rebel against you! No more prayers for anyone, not more “in God we trust”, no more, one nation under God!!!! No more, no more, no moooooorrrrre! Hah! No how do you like them apples you created!

     Classic case. Jessica believes there is a God – she’s just pissed at Him like a lot of atheist – they always have a story behind their newfound disbelief. I’ve met atheist who could care less about all that stuff. They don’t believe and thats it, they ignore all the talk and religious people. They go about their business. They never believed – they need proof – they need to see it. ” In God we trust” they don’t, but they don’t care, because its only money and it doesn’t affect them, they don’t look to waste time on something that doesn’t affect their well being. They just simply say they don’t believe in it and keep going – they don’t make a fuss or a national case about it. They say eff it and move on to better more worthwhile things. Those atheist I can deal with – not extremist or organizations who criticize those for doing they very same thing they are doing. Crazy.

     But I too hate those crazy fake Christians as Shirah put it. They are bizarre and nuts! Devils! Jessica is a kid, leave her alone. The girl is pissed right now, take it with a grain of salt. Plus like I said before, for some people, if they can’t see it they don’t believe it – don’t hate on them! Geesh! I don’t believe we came from some damn apes – thats an insult! I don’t want that forced on me!I hated learning about and hearing about evolution! WTF! A primate! Please! I could accept coming from a cat, but not evolving from some damn monkey!Thats sounds stupid!I won’t eat bananas til this day because of that BS! I love the idea of a loving spirit creating me with his bare hands like a work of fine art better. You all want to be monkeys fine, not I. I’m too pretty and too fabulous for that load of crap! I bet if you ask Jessica if she believes she came from an orangutan, she’d look at you like you were smoking some pot from the amazon! Know what I mean Jess! For real!!!

     NY GIANTS!
     No place better than Neeewww Yooooooorrrrk! (Think of Alicia Keys – this place will inspire yoooouuuu!)

     
     
239. on January 27, 2012 at 3:57 pm | Reply Sir Willis Montgomery III

     Thank you for standing up for what you believe.

     
     
240. on January 27, 2012 at 4:38 pm | Reply Bethany

     I hope one day you learn how to be a tolerant, kind human being.

     Do you even understand what prayer is? Look it up. What could possibly offend you? The idea that someone has a belief that is different from yours? Honey, adulthood is going to seriously kick your ass. When are you going to learn to be accepting of others?

     You do realize that in taking this action, you are actually the one shoving your beliefs down everyone else’s throat. Ironic, huh?

     If the school was majority athiest, and the plaque had read “Belief in a higher power is foolish,” would you have gone bellyaching to the school board and the courts? Hmm.

     Part of being a good human being is being tolerant – allowing your neighbors – particularly those who aren’t stepping on your toes or hurting you in any way – to have faith in what they chose and to live their lives.

     If you don’t believe in the darn plaque, don’t look at it. But I guess averting your eyes is too much trouble, after all – the law is on your side, right? Why shouldn’t you be able to look at a blank rock? Screw everyone else’s feelings.

     Oh – and by the way – as long as their are math tests, there will be prayer in school.

     
     
     • on January 27, 2012 at 6:04 pm | Reply Brent

       Bethany, I can’t help but wonder if the school was majority Muslim and the plaque was promoting Islam would you as a student really be as tolerant as you are asking Jessica to be? Would you really appreciate someone saying you should simply avert your eyes while you are at school? Leaving religion outside the school as Jessica is asking, and the constitution demands seems a better solution.

       
       
241. on January 27, 2012 at 5:54 pm | Reply jordan

     after reading this…i really support you jessica ahlqist. good luck the separation of church and state law was made to stop such attacks from ever occurring. if the school had just followed the law that was made a year before the banner was put up…then none of these people would be attacking you. i hope you stay strong. more people support you than you know logic is the way to go.

     
     
242. on January 27, 2012 at 6:04 pm | Reply Brent

     Bethany, I can’t help but wonder if the school was majority Muslim and the plaque was promoting Islam would you as a student really be as tolerant as you are asking Jessica to be? Would you really appreciate someone saying you should simply avert your eyes while you are at school? Leaving religion outside the school as Jessica is asking, and the constitution demands seems a better solution.

     
     
243. on January 27, 2012 at 6:05 pm | Reply Jalal

     hi…. can I know more about you…I want to be your frienD..:-)

     
     
244. on January 27, 2012 at 7:26 pm | Reply Francis Schiraldi

     You are a bitch Burn in hell

     
     
     • on January 27, 2012 at 7:57 pm | Reply Brent

       Wow, what an intellectually powerful argument you make for your position, not. Thinking as opposed to regurgitating long held prejudices might work out better for you.

       
       
245. on January 27, 2012 at 7:29 pm | Reply Jack

     Congratulations on your integrity and courage, Jessica –

     Our country is great–despite its lack of complete perfection–in part because over the years we have moved in the direction of fairness to all, regardless of an individual’s race, gender, religion (or lack of it) ethnicity, ancestry, etc. Clearly an important part of this is the neutrality regarding each of these aspects by our goverment institutions at all levels.

     Schools, states, and even businesses large and small used to be free to ignore impartiality when it came to race. Generations of black Americans suffered tremendously as a result. Happily those days are, to a remarkable extent, behind us.

     We may hope that your willingness to speak out–the unkind responses of many people notwithstanding–will bring us closer to a better day.

     Very best wishes,

     Jack

     
     
246. on January 27, 2012 at 7:50 pm | Reply masyhuri

     how about Islam???

     
     
247. on January 27, 2012 at 8:25 pm | Reply mark

     whether there is a banner or not is immaterial……what is critical is what we put ahead of all else……will it be myself and my opinions……or what Jesus gave?

     http://www.thereisnoatheist.com

     
     
     • on January 27, 2012 at 9:14 pm | Reply Rob

       Mark,
       the argument in that link is invalid since the ‘spiritual’ principles all arise from physical foundations.

       
       
     • on January 27, 2012 at 9:20 pm | Reply Rob

       What we put ahead of all else? I would prefer your opinions Mark over Jesus’ opinions since you are alive today and can therefore develop your opinions.

       
       
     • on January 27, 2012 at 11:38 pm | Reply mark

       you took my name! Bastard. just kidding but to all who read this–this mark is not the same that posted this afternoon.

       
       
248. on January 27, 2012 at 10:49 pm | Reply Jeff

     I don’t know your history, nor is it any of my business. I believe you have every right to believe in monotheism, polytheism, or neither. I respect you for sticking up for what you believe in. That is a sign of integrity! I am not in agreement of what you are doing. I fear a chain reaction effect. I figure at what point does this battle go to fighting a personal level.

     I do recommend people put the same effort to protecting Americans from the governmental censorship of the internet. If America wants to have a safe network, then develop a high speed intranet.

     In my opinion, I find it a bit much to demand the removal of the banner. It is my understanding this was written by a former student. There are two references to religion at the start. I propose an agreement to leave the writing but remove the introduction. The “Amen” at the end simply means truly. It’s like saying I agree, I think. I would assume the school does not make the students practice other religious acts. If I am incorrect on this, my apologies.

     It does bother me that people are making physical/mental threats to Jessica. I certainly don’t agree with the actions taking place. We should be more accepting and understanding of each other. In my opinion, if we all had more understanding we could be more tolerant of each other.

     These are just my personal views. If anyone is offended I apologize. It is not my intention to harm another beliefs or views.

     Have a good one!

     
     
249. on January 27, 2012 at 11:18 pm | Reply Joe

     for what it’s worth, I don’t agree with you, I was a youth pastor for for years and still have my faith. BUT!!! I would completley support you and even shake your hand if I could. I believe that the school AND TOWN need to support someone willing to stand up for what’s right. do I believe your right, no. But what you are doing is. you’re amazing. don’t stop fighting for OUR rights!

     
     
250. on January 28, 2012 at 12:14 am | Reply mark

     I’m drinking.

     
     
     • on February 18, 2012 at 10:56 am | Reply Deadhound

       Awesome mate, cause I’m eating chocolate

       
       
251. on January 28, 2012 at 4:01 am | Reply Adam

     To Jessica and all of her other supporters,

     I applaud your strength and resolution in all of this. It can’t be easy listening to all of the very non-Christian hatred being flung at you by some of these people. In your shoes, I doubt I would have stepped up as you did, or held on for as long.

     While I consider myself an agnostic with a strong atheist bent, I like to keep an open mind. As I understand it, one of the high points of Christianity is love and tolerance. If what people like “Tom” have been saying is representative of that love and tolerance, then their idea of hatred must truly be terrifying. Something in the Bible about casting the first stone comes to mind…

     These days it’s refreshing to see anyone willing to make a stand for the rights guaranteed them by the founders of our nation. The thing with rights is that if we don’t stand up for them we WILL lose them. It’s happened before, and it’s happening right now all around us, even here in America.

     Kudos to you Jessica. Never be afraid to fight for what you believe is right.

     
     
252. on January 28, 2012 at 7:51 am | Reply Brian Groven

     Jessica Ahlquist,

     re: legal arguments that the ACLU could use

     I have been following your story, and I support you 100%. I am agnostic, & I support the separation of Church & State.

     Funny thing is that when I was in high school I was a born-again Christian! Back then, I would have been on the other side of this! lol

     In high school I formed a Bible study group. My Bible study group was allowed to meet on school grounds after school. However, I remember one time I was going to show the Jesus film & wanted to put up posters advertising the event in the school. I remember I had to meet with the school principal. I remember him saying that I would only be allowed to put up a maximum of so many posters & only in certain locations. He was scared of the ACLU & other people protesting to these posters & having a big lawsuit on his hands. I remember him saying to me, “Well, if we allow these posters, then we will have to allow posters of every religious group including SATANISTS!” He was dead serious!

     So my point is this: One legal argument to the school & supporters of the Prayer banner could go like this: “If you allow a clearly Catholic Christian religious banner to be on school grounds, then you must allow EVERY RELIGION including Satanists, Wicca, and even Atheists to put up their own banners as well on the school grounds so that one religion is not treated any differently than any other religion. The whole Separation of Church & State clause to the Constitution as far as I understand it is about the government (including publicly funded places like public schools) remaining NEUTRAL towards ALL religions & not giving any one religion any official endorsement by the State. In other countries, including Democratic ones, they actually have an official state religion or religions. Norway, for example, has the Church of Norway as the official church (Evangelical Lutheran). England, has the Church of England. And so on. In those countries you are not forced to belong to that religion, but the State religion is given preference above all others & can be publicly funded.

     So in other words, there are 2 ways to resolve this problem at Cranston High School West:

     1. Either remove the prayer banner (simplest solution)
     2. Or allow every religion including non-religious groups like atheists to put up their banners too (I’m sure the school doesn’t want this!!!)

     I think if the ACLU uses this legal argument, the school might reluctantly choose the first option because it is much more preferable to the second option!

     Also, if you can respond to this, I was wondering aren’t there any other non-Christians at your high school that also feel that their rights are being violated? Jews? Muslims? Buddhists? Hindus? Atheists & agnostics? Are you the only one?

     Second, I find it unbelievable that this obviously religious prayer banner was even allowed to be put up at a public school, let alone be allowed to be hung from its walls for 49 years!!!

     Anyway, I am sure you realize that you are standing up for non-Christians everywhere. I wish you good luck, & hope that you are successful!

     Sincerely,

     Brian from Minnesota

     
     
253. on January 28, 2012 at 10:12 am | Reply Tyler

     congratulations, you might possibly be the scummiest human being alive. Defending our constitution? bull shit. You are just ignorantly acting out on your own agenda. Tolerance is about accepting people with religious differences not secularizing a population that is over 80% religious. Were you forced to personally believe in that prayer? no. Were you forced to act in the name of the prayer? no. It seems to be more be the phrase of your school spirit- written into the history of the school- not oppressive violation of the Constitution. Not that you’ve probably considered or anything but the pledge of allegiance includes, defended by courts in the past, “One nation, under God.” I don’t support mandated school prayers but this is ridiculous. The whole intention of this campaign is selfish and vile; under the front that it’s for our Constitutional good. Every framer of the Constitution has admitted to founding the document with faith in mind. My advice to you: come to heads with your atheism, Jessica, and understand that every faith, even the lack thereof, is meant to be integral oneself. Your whole mission so far seems to be preaching intolerance to a whole mass of people. Grow up and worry about your damn self, and we’ll worry about ourselves.

     
     
     • on January 28, 2012 at 10:33 am | Reply Rob

       Tyler,
       you are calling someone who is enforcing the law the scummiest human being alive. do police officers fall under that category for you as well? do you consider aiding lawbreakers and criminals a worthy cause?
       please show some real tolerance and understanding before you say such nasty and unjustifiable things.

       
       
254. on January 28, 2012 at 11:34 am | Reply Daniel Eizyk

     Dear Miss Jessica Ahlquist,

     As a SCHOOL TEACHER, I would like to say I am very proud of your thoughtful, steadfast, and courageous stance. In an era when critical thinking and analysis of complex issues has fallen to the wayside (how many people your age actually read and write these days for fun), I whole heartedly believe you inspire others to think for themselves.

     Whether they agree with your or not, a respectful dialogue of ideas is something all people could benefit from. Even the “best” minds from which our constitutional ideals were born from could not agree all the time. Enlightenment thinkers such as Locke, Rousseau, Montesquieu, or Voltaire all relished the intellectual debate, and anyone who puts you down personally for your ideas is probably content living a mediocre life. Because one cannot succeed in life (excelling in a good college, getting a decent career, etc.) if that person shuts out respect, critical thinking, and the ability to listen. I know you will be fine doing whatever you want to in life.

     As a personal side-note to anybody who wonders- yes I do know what I am talking about, as I teach the following: Constitutional Government, World History, Economics, Early American History, and Global Issues. Those interested in nay-saying can go to http://www.mreizyk.weebly.com- maybe you can learn something while you’re there.

     Best wishes,
     Daniel Eizyk
     Central City High School Social Studies Teacher

     
     
     • on January 28, 2012 at 12:42 pm | Reply mark

       Nice Dan. May I add as well, Martin Luther also endured similar criticisms as Jessica and look how he changed the world. I do not agree with either Jess or Luther but I can tolerate both.

       
       
255. on January 29, 2012 at 12:50 am | Reply Sebastian

     America is full of retards.

     One lone stupid girl who became upset with God because her mother got sick took out all her aggression and anger on some silly plaque and all the stupid retarded Americans jump to her defense comparing her to Joan of Arc, Martin Luther King, and who knows what other freedom fighter.

     You people are so freaking stupid. You make retards look good. No wonder this country is going downhill.

     I am in utter disbelief that you morons actually think this 16 year old simpleton is somehow fighting for your freedom.

     A plaque written by a 12 year old child in 1963 wishing the classmates of Cranston good fortune is somehow deemed as a danger to society like a malfunctioning nuclear bomb with a broken triggered countdown timer. It’s already been proven that no one in her school pushed religion on this dumb kid or forced her to do anything. This is simply a slimeball move by her father to get her some media attention and help her with an ailing bank account.

     You are all so caught up in your personal vendettas against religion that you misjudge the entire people in one town and stand up for a kid who’s taking all of you for suckers.

     You people are deranged morons. Your mothers should have aborted you all because the human gene pool’s IQ has dropped significantly with all of you simply taking up space.

     I am ashamed that you morons occupy the same planet as people with common sense do. This is why survival of the fittest should never have been sidelined by society. You get MEGA-retards like all of you breeding by the millions. Culling of the species keeps morons like you from existing.

     You stupid morons can’t even piece together the news right in front of your face.

     This dumb child said her quest began when her mother got sick and she started questioning god’s existence.

     So morons, if her mother would not have gotten sick, none of this would have ever happened. GET IT STUPIDS?

     This is just an angry kid who got manipulated into doing something stupid that destroyed the peace in her community, got her many enemies in school including kids that aren’t even religious and now has morons like you blowing smoke up her azz telling her how brave she is.

     What does it take for you idiots to see the truth? Or are Americans really that stupid nowadays? It’s bad enough too many Americans are obese, but is their food making them completely retarded on top of that?

     Jessica is not some hero fighting for your rights, you morons, she’s an angry kid who ended up in court because her mother got sick. Had that never happened this stupid crusade started by this moron and her gutter rat father who didn’t have enough common sense to keep his kid out of drama like this never would have happened.

     Get it morons? Or does someone have to send you all coloring books showing you how to think for yourselves?

     Idiots. You stupid morons No wonder the world laughs at America nowadays. It’s full of morons like all of you.

     I can’t believe NONE OF YOU HAS ONE FUNCTIONING BRAIN CELL TO GATHER THE FACTS, PIECE THEM TOGETHER AND COME UP WITH A RATIONAL EXPLANATION.

     Americans, at least you bunch, are idiots.

     Morons.

     What’s worse is you celebrate your stupidity and learn nothing from the facts even when they are in front of your face.

     I hope a scientist one day creates a disease similar to a hyper strain of AIDS that kills in seconds so I don’t ever have to log on to any website and read such stupidity as you morons congratulating some dumb kid who’s sole intention was to rile her town, piss of the faculty of a school, and pretend she cares about the constitution while media attention wh*ring.

     This whole fiasco isn’t about religion, the Constitution, any struggle, or whatever your imaginary moronic story of the day is. She is not Joan of Arc, Martin Luther King, or any historical figure fighting injustice. Please. Stop the madness.

     This is about a dumb angry 16 year old manipulated child who played her town for suckers, the legal system for a payday, the media for attention, and morons like all of you for support.

     To give this misguided stupid child all this attention for something she obviously did out of anger, spite, and manipulation will end up backfiring. Don’t be shocked when this moronic kid does something real stupid later on down the road that will have many of you wondering what happened to her.

     Please folks, use your brains…..possibly for the first time in your lives. Look at the facts, THEN COME TO A CONCLUSION. You certainly won’t like what you see when you look at this from a normal perspective.

     This girl hasn’t changed the world for the better. What she did was for the worse because unlike slavery or any other KNOW INJUSTICE, this was a make believe injustice that simply did not exist.

     How can you reward someone for fighting a FAKE BATTLE with no real danger? One that she started with her school about how SHE THINKS THINGS SHOULD BE DONE? Religion plays NO ROLE IN THIS.

     Don’t believe me? Take a look at the smug smile on this kid’s face as she poses and smiles for the camera. Some victim. Take a look how she riles up her town, angers people by indirectly disrespecting people’s beliefs and then pretends to be a victim. Take a look at the job offers and paychecks she’s now raking in.

     Folks, I am not asking you to hate this girl or crucify her or throw eggs at her or anything.

     I am asking you, as a THINKING person, to not fall for this crap and reward someone with complements and attention when clearly they do not deserve it.

     People who do this sort of litigation with their ambulance chasing sidekick lawyers are not superheroes and should not be made to look like one.

     Now do you people understand? This isn’t a defense of religion but rather a defense of the truth. Don’t grapevine the truth or turn this into one of those fishing story lies when it was that big!!!

     There was no hero here. Just an ignorant angry 16 year old girl who made a huge mistake and will sooner or later regret it. That is the truth right there.

     Case MF’in closed.

     
     
     • on January 29, 2012 at 1:07 am | Reply Rob

       “No wonder the world laughs at America nowadays”

       Sebastian, as a non-American I can safely say it is because of ignorant people like you. People who cannot form a logical argument so they overuse words like stupid, moron, idiot, and retard to describe their opponents.

       
       
     • on January 29, 2012 at 3:03 am | Reply Brent

       Sebastian, so you just spent the time writing over a thousand words that basically say you don’t think the issue is important and anybody that does is a moron. I’d say your bothering to write over a thousand words speaks to its importance and someday you might even understand why.

       
       
       • on January 29, 2012 at 7:19 pm | Reply Sebastian

         Hey wise and mighty Brent, is there some hidden meaning in your message, like a clue in a Nicolas Cage movie or something.

         I wrote that for the moron American idiots like you that don’t get the message even after 1,000 words. Funny, you still don’t.

         I realize it’s a dang thesis paper, but crap, even after all of that you still don’t learn anything??? Nuthin’ Brent? Dang Brent, you and your family ain’t too gosh darn bright, is you???

         Don’t get all smug with your “blah blah blah someday you might even realize why…

         Tell me all knowing Brent, why is it so important? Do you know all the facts?

         Those are 1,000 words directed at dim witted folks like you who obviously have nothing of any intelligence to support this frivolous lawsuit circus or otherwise you would have typed up something of intelligence instead of your CRYPTIC TOILET PAPER MUSINGS. In fact Brent, I am gonna take your text, print it on toilet paper and use it next time I do some non critical thinking in the bathroom.

         If you have nothing of any importance of regarding this media circus/political/theological/religious war started on the whims of a 16 year old’s fancy, then…..

         SAY NOTHING AT ALL.

         You want to know why I’m bothered? Simple, the country is being ripped apart both at high levels and low levels by cretins just like this girl…. all in the name of …… fill in the blank. Racism where non exists, religious persecution where none existed, all taken out of context, blown out of proportion, and dressed up by the media as the worst thing since AIDS EBOLA and STARVATION combined.

         Don’t defend this Brent, you can’t so don’t even try.

         
         
         • on February 18, 2012 at 11:01 am | Reply Deadhound

           As far as I know. It was not her choise to make this “media circus”. There is no need for religious war or make an issue over it. Just simply take it down. No need to make a thelogical disscusion ether, cause it simply should not be there or all other religion and sects should be allowed to hang a banner in the school.

           
           
256. on January 29, 2012 at 6:33 am | Reply Arnold

     Quit being such a cock-sucking attentionwhore. It was hanging there for 49 years, not interfering with anybody. Get a life.

     
     
     • on January 29, 2012 at 6:54 am | Reply Rob

       Well it was interfering with the law. Not to mention that Jessica didn’t even make the complaint, so it was obviously bothering somebody.

       
       
       • on January 29, 2012 at 6:14 pm | Reply Sebastian

         Yeah, it was interfering with the law. Listen to this rationalization. Pure genius at work here folks.

         Yeah, and saying “god bless you” to someone sneezing in school is also interfering with “THE LAW”

         …and teaching about Martin Luther King the crazy god loving baptist minister is also against THE LAW.

         …and looking at every dollar bill should be a 10 year prison sentence.

         Whatever Sheriff tiny brain.

         The only thing that should be against the law is all the stupidity on this site comparing Jessica to people fighting slavery or persecution.

         Next thing you know, Jessica taking a vacation to Florida will be compared Amelia Earhart’s flight expedition.

         Jessica puts milk in the fridge is compared to Luis Pasteur’s work.

         Jessica drops her lawsuit papers and discovers gravity, the scientific world is turned upside down!!!

         Jessica drives to the ocean, takes a luxury boat vacation and ends up on the other side of the planet. Jessica has proven the world is not flat!!!

         oh wait, why not compare Jessica to Harriet Tubman? Maybe Jessica can walk across the street with a black person and she is setting them free!!! hahahaha!!!

         Maybe we can all start a holiday. JESSICA LUTHER KING DAY!!! It will be on OCTEMBER 35th !!!

         Hey, remember when Jessica walked on the moon and planted the Constitutional flag? lol

         …..or how about that time Jessica gave Al Gore the idea about the internet.lol

         ….remember when Jessica broke the sound barrier by calling an ACLU lawyer and he flew to her house past mach 1 speeds??

         How about that time Jessica found out that Pluto wasn’t really a planet. Sure we hated her for it, but we had to concede she was right, as usual.

         Remember when Jessica taught paralyzed children in wheelchairs and one her star pupils went on to explain the entire universe and its existence? The other one invented the ipod. lol

         No wait, this is the best one!!!

         HOW ABOUT THAT TIME JESSICA FOUGHT FOR OUR FREEDOM BY SUING HER TOWN WITH SCUMMY ACLU LAWYERS OVER A BANNER THAT WAS PART OF A SCHOOL’S HISTORY AND WAS NOT ANY SORT OF RELIGIOUS INDOCTRINATION TOOL, BUT RATHER A PRAYER OF GOODWILL WRITTEN BY AN INNOCENT 12 YEAR OLD CHILD???

         The child who wrote that well wishing prayer is the real victim here, not Jessica, attention seeker extraordinaire.

         …and who are all these idiots coming up with the muslim comparison? Don’t any of these morons realize that muslims putting up a banner saying “allah is the only god” is different from a banner put up by a 12 year old child wishing her classmates luck, prosperity, and good fortune? One is religious in its meaning from beginning to end, the other happened to be a well wishing prayer for her classmates. In Cranston, the vast majority of children in that school were Christian so WHAT THE **** DO YOU EXPECT? For the plaque to start off with “Praise Buddha”? Is anyone actually smart enough to realize much of Rhode Island’s history is shrouded in Christianity? or do these Atheists just want to toss those books in a all too convenient fire? Funny how all these idiot ACLU clowns and their moronic clients try and erase all signs of Christianity don’t even reflect on history and remember what other organized party tried to erase another religious people’s entire existence. Hint Hint….. Seig Heil!!!

         Personally I am not religious, at all, but even I find this offensive, repugnant, and certainly not some fight for my freedom. Try going to Dearbourne Michigan where muslims ACTUALLY ARE PUTTING UP BANNERS with “There is no God but Allah”

         Try your luck there cowards. How about you Jessica?? or is the smell of easy money your only real incentive?

         Wake up and smell the coffee folks, you are suckers.

         A dumb kid sued her school out of anger and pissed off a whole lotta folks. Case closed. Stop pretending it’s anything else. losers.

         
         
     • on January 29, 2012 at 9:51 am | Reply Kyle

       Nice ad hominims, why don’t you sit down and tell us what is really making you angry? Plain and simple, it was a religious banner where none should have been hanging in the first place. I’m Polytheist, and I would feel a little weird if I had to walk those same halls with a religious banner when the school is a public school, which should be secular, hell, I would feel weird with it even if I was a Christian. If it was a religious school, like a Catholic school, then there would be no problem, but a public school, theres a problem.

       
       
       • on January 29, 2012 at 7:04 pm | Reply Sebastian

         Hey Kyle,

         Southpark is thataway!!!

         First off, why don’t you read a little history before you type. oh, sorry, too much …ummm how do you put it….hmmmm… . oh yeah…

         Learning.

         Take a trip to Rhode Island buddy, the entire state is full of old structures mind you taken care of by the town and state that have religious and religiously inspired slogans on them!!! That was part of the State’s history. You can knock them down or burn all the books if you like FUHRER KYLE, but it won’t change history. Imagine that, an entire state with plaques just like the one in school wishing you well and telling you stories about the towns, citizens, and historical figures!!!

         GASP!!!! OMG!!! WE ARE ALL GONNA DIE!!! Quick, somebody call the ACLU and Jessica, only they can save the day!!!

         That prayer was written by a 12 year old child as a slogan FOR THE SCHOOL …. PERIOD.

         The vast majority of kids in that school were Christian children and you can’t no matter how much you and your ACLU buddies might try, erase that little historical fact.

         All you did was show your ignorance.

         All Jessica did was show her stupidity and anger.

         You aren’t defending logic, she wasn’t representing justice. Get over it. Nobody won and the school lost a bit of its history because some dumb media attention seeking kid needed some kind of support when her mother couldn’t give it to her.

         oh, and most of these people talking about religious persecution are lying through their teeth and most likely got their azzes kicked because they were most likely the instigators that made fun of other’s belief’s.

         We call these people DODGEBALL LOSERS. The last ones picked, the ones that are scared of the real challenge that poses real risks and pain. The ones that always complain because they don’t have the drive to be better to win and to do it the hard way.

         Jessica’s idiotic road journey is paved with the bricks of angry people and her monetary rewards dollar for dollar won’t amount to the amount of people that dislike her now and that’s a fact.

         Call it a win if you like, but take a look at all the angry people, many of whom aren’t even religious, and you tell me if this was worth it for you to support someone who clearly now has monetary offers, college and job offers, and fake support by angry and bitter atheists who simply hate people they don’t even know.

         One girl, her moronic father, and a team of slimy ACLU lawyers vs and entire town and school. DemoCRAZY in action.

         
         
         • on January 29, 2012 at 9:28 pm | Reply Kyle

           I usually don’t respond to ad hominim like that, but the South Park thing did make me laugh. And for calling me der fuhrer, thanks for jumping right into Godwin’s Law. You would be surprised how often religious persecution happens to minorities in school, and because of Christian Privilege.

           
           
           • on January 30, 2012 at 1:00 am Sebastian

             Except Kyle, IT DIDN’T HAPPEN THIS TIME.

             That’s the point.

             Had this girl been beaten, insulted, hurt, coerced, or in any way been abused…. I WOULD UNDERSTAND. Had religion played any role in it, I WOULD UNDERSTAND. All of the hate started after her big school showdown. She wanted to be a bigshot and have her face plastered everywhere, well, she got exactly what she deserved. Scorn by everyone, religious and non-religious alike. If this were a real case of abuse of a child, I would understand.

             But this sadly is not the case.

             This is nothing more than a frivolous lawsuit by an angry and bitter girl.

             What upsets me most is that people are turning this into a story of heroism when it clearly is not.

             Come on Kyle, be serious. We both know this isn’t the case.

             True, I may be an a**hole, but at least I am not lying about it. People need to wake up and think for themselves and not create misery where there was none.

             Do you have any idea how many state/city/town run buildings and memorials in Rhode Island have religious overtones from days gone by??? This girl could sue for the next two thousand lifetimes.

             As for the Nazi comparison, it is exactly as it should be. When you try and bury the existence of people and their history simply based on their religion and are only motivated by hate while hiding behind the flag and constitution, well….

             …that kinda speaks for itself historically now doesn’t it Kyle?

             The reason people get so upset with my responses and can only try and insult me is because there simply is no defense for this travesty of justice disguised as some vigilant fight for our rights.

             Jessica doesn’t speak for me or anyone who actually respects the Constitution or democracy for that matter.

             What happened to voting? What happened to the voices of the other 99.999999% people of Cranston. oh, they don’t matter do they?

             This could have all been resolved without litigation and the interference of some media attention litigating 16 year old spoiled brat who had to have her way. Well she got it along with a heaping helping of “STFU and get out of our town your troublemaking jackazz”

             I don’t blame the townsfolk, it is after all their town. Too bad lone lunatics think they can go in and tell vast amounts of people how to live their lives. Try that in any foreign country and they have enough pride to hang you by your neck until dead… and you know what? They are right too.

             The world is not perfect, not at all, and many things are naturally going to be unfair, but majorities do rule and in most cases live without many problems until one lone idiot hits the hornet’s nest with a stick. That is the reality of the real world and Jessica learned it like most idiots do, the hard way.

             
             
257. on January 29, 2012 at 1:00 pm | Reply thcott

     Sebastian,

     People who read what you wrote are going to immediately dismiss you as being ignorant.

     If (however) they take the time to actually read and think about what you wrote, it is loaded with ALOT of truth regarding Jessica and this situation.

     Your point was DEAD ON–> If her “perception” that God failed to answer her prayer was answered her way (rather than the way it was answered) then none of this would happen.

     The truth behind this whole thing is most people would simply rather complain about God rather than complain to God about their situation

     Examples:

     You did this to me, God!
     It’s not fair, God

     I told you to give answer my prayer and you didn’t do it MY way, God

     I asked for a plain quarterpounder with cheese and they put mustard on it, God

     Sometimes, God will bring a test to people by making them see past the prayer to the One who gave us life.

     This can teach people to be humble, selfless, etc…

     Sebastian, your wording was very strong, but perhaps someone needed to say it so that it would cause ignorant people to start learning to think about the situation….

     
     
     • on January 29, 2012 at 6:41 pm | Reply Sebastian

       Thank you so much thcott,

       Yeah, I’m an a##hole, but I can’t stand when people lie and tell tall tales.

       This girl isn’t fighting for freedom and these people blowing smoke up her azz are doing more damage to her than her mother getting sick. Think about how skewered this girl is going to grow up. I kinda feel sorry for this kid, but the people supporting this are repugnant and so full of hate for religion that they can’t see past their intolerant noses. No one can honestly say after reading all the facts and knowing a bit about the town, its history, and its people that there was any religious persecution going on, but those are useless real facts, what do they matter anyway?

       Any decent person would have put this to a vote and allowed the students, school faculty, and town to vote on their own personal matter. This is government intrusion at its finest, not to mention allowing a 16 year old messed up girl to profit from this in any way and have all this media attention is reprehensible.

       But then again, that’s why our government is so corrupt right now, people are too dumb to really look at the big picture, they are too busy shouting stupid political slogan… yes we can!!! overlook corruption in this administration like the last one and the ones before it. Yeah…. lol Not only that, they are SCARED. SCARED to call out real corruption. In a just world, this case wouldn’t have seen a courtroom and that girl would be on a shrink’s couch crying about how her God failed her and her mom. That’s what she really needed, not the media attention.

       I wouldn’t put my money down on many of these people actually thinking for themselves, after all, they probably haven’t done that for a very long time. Sorry to say, but the American educational system has gone downhill. Gone are the days of turning out people with VIABLE ACTUAL SKILLS, instead they turn out turds like Jessica which will have a lifetime of making people all over the world miserable with frivolous lawsuits. They can’t use their hands, only their mouths. They talk a good game like the politicians and when push comes to shove profit over anything they do in life.

       I used to feel sorry for this girl, but to see how smug and happy she is over all of this is rather disgusting. The fact that she profits at all is repugnant. Her own words that she wouldn’t do anything differently shows she doesn’t even care one bit about the people she hurt. This hatred pure and simple, not justice. Finally, the fact that she pissed off so many people that want to kick in her teeth then she plays the victim is downright ludicrous. Telling the media you saved people’s lives when you shouted fire in a crowded movie theater after you tossed the malotov cocktail that started the fire in the first place isn’t brave. Not one bit.

       Well, her revenge against her God is all that matters in the end. Too bad most of these people on here are too stupid to see the reality of the situation.

       We might as well call her Jessica Hilton or Jessica Lohan. Maybe she could date George Clooney or pose in playboy when she turns 18. Heck she could go to court to lower the age. lol

       
       
       • on January 29, 2012 at 9:21 pm | Reply Rob

         Sebastian,
         Please, if you are going to respond, please just say “stupid dumb idiotic loser retarded morons”. No need to waste so much space, just simplify your argument into what you are actually saying. It completely summarizes your argument and shows what kind of person you are, without having to waste anyone’s time.
         Unfortunately you have wasted so much of my time, and I am so mentally exhausted from your highly educated mind and vocabulary that I couldn’t be f’cked responding specifically to your completely ignorant arguments.

         
         
         • on January 30, 2012 at 12:28 am | Reply Sebastian

           That’s all you get out of this Rob. Well, you are f*cked then.

           Go join hands with Jessica and do the “Constitution” dance.

           Burn a few bibles, get a few movie deals, get some cash, and talk about how you and her saved the world from dangerous plaques written by 12 year old children.

           Idiots like you are the reason this country and girls like Jessica are scr#wed. No common sense at al. Not one bit.

           You get what I am writing. You know it’s true. You just are butt hurt that you can’t respond to the truth.

           Don’t worry, I am sure if you think for enough time, you can come up with some other stupid explanation like Jessica is actually sent by peace loving aliens to protect us from imaginary Christians bent on world domination through dangerous WMDs shaped like plaques.

           I am glad the internet keeps us from ever meeting. Who knows how most of these retarded supporters of this frivolous BS make believe persecution lawsuit by this ignoramus girl would look like. I imagine most of you are byproducts of close relations among very near relatives like brother sister type relations.

           Don’t ever think Rob, it suits you well.

           
           
           • on January 30, 2012 at 6:20 am Rob

             I’m not from your country so I can’t really screw it up more than you can.
             Once again, no argument. Just “you are f’cked”, “idiots like you”, “stupid explanations”, “retarded supporters”, and inbred.
             Thank you Sebastian for proving my point.

             
             
     • on January 29, 2012 at 9:04 pm | Reply Rob

       thcott,
       you are completely wrong linking this issue to god not answering her prayer. I have been an atheist my entire life so there hasn’t been any praying to god when i was younger. When you realize that there is no god (or that its most probably made up), you’re not going to be pissed off at god, more likely pissed off at the people who made up god.
       Which is all completely irrelevant since Jessica didn’t make the complaint, so it definitely would have happened anyway.

       
       
       • on January 30, 2012 at 12:36 am | Reply Sebastian

         Actually, he is completely correct Rob, but of course you didn’t read the entire story on how she started down this messed up path.

         The fact that her mother was ill WAS EXACTLY THE REASON SHE STARTED ON HER MISSION FROM NON-GOD TO EXTERMINATE A PLAQUE BECAUSE IT OFFENDED HER.

         Rob, I know this is probably hard for you to do. I know, asking you to think is highly unorthodox, especially for someone as simpleminded as you are, but did you ever ask yourself what a dumb 16 year old was doing getting mixed up in this in the first place and why her father propped her up next to so many scumbag ACLU attorneys who used her as a victim of a non-existent injustice?

         Do you honestly believe this wasn’t a case of stupidity? You really think she was persecuted when even her ambulance chasing attorneys acknowledged that there was never any abuse, force , or any kind of coercion.

         Stop making stuff up Rob, if you don’t know what’s going on or have no idea how this all came to be, don’t type. It’s better that no one knows you are an idiot than for you to type and let everyone be absolutely convinced afterwards.

         
         
         • on January 30, 2012 at 6:39 am | Reply Rob

           5 years had past between her mother becoming ill and Jessica starting a facebook page in support of the removal of an illegal prayer.
           The school had already got complaints about the banner, so if Jessica hadn’t stepped in then someone else would have.

           None of this has anything to do with her mother becoming ill.

           
           
       • on February 5, 2012 at 4:06 pm | Reply thcott

         Rob,

         Regarding your belief in the absence of God–> rather than try and convince you; I am not interested in trying to convince you. You have already convinced yourself as to whether or not your will believe that Jesus Christ died for all of humanity.

         Rob, noone has to show you the disappointments that make people go through to decide instead to blame God (for their own struggles.)

         One thing I (often) used to struggle with was listening to my own mind say:

         “you are always going to be a disappointment, how will you ever be able to move past the struggles that your past decision-making has caused you?”

         Rob, you have a difficult situation you are facing (in the near future). As a person who (logically) is able to discern what answers are to most questions–> this situation is not as simple as what you’re used to dealing with.

         Rob, If you take your situation to the Lord, and simply ask Him “Lord, show me the right decision regarding this situation” it will make a difficult situation become very easy for you to handle…

         Rob, should you choose to do this; financially, you will not have as much stress in your life…

         Take care, Rob….

         
         
         • on February 5, 2012 at 10:22 pm | Reply Rob

           thcott,

           I do not believe jesus christ even existed, which is similar to I do not believe little red riding hood even existed.
           The ‘evidence’ for him (which only appears in the bible) is contradictory and very underwhelming. The story is clearly made up and copied from previous myths, many other ‘gods’ were born of a virgin, walked on water, died and then resurrected.
           It is like someone copied little red riding hood, but instead said she has a ‘really’ red cape.

           As for being stressed, lol, I’m an atheist and I’m alive, what more is there to worry about. Financial stress is not an issue, I’m currently flat broke.

           Why ask the lord for help on a difficult situation, cant I just think about it myself, or even better not think about it and just be myself.

           As for what you used to tell yourself, I feel very sorry for you, it is most likely caused by your upbringing. Perhaps if parents tell their children “life is great, be happy and make the most of it” instead of “god is watching you, live up to his standards or burn in hell” this kind of negative attitude to life and putting yourself down will disappear.

           
           
           • on February 8, 2012 at 10:28 pm Thcott

             Rob,

             Regardless of my upbringing, you really shouldn’t ignore the Lord’s suggestion to you on this your financial situation. I have never met you before and don’t know anything about you.

             I only am passing to you this from the Lord: “You are very lucky your (financial) situation is not worse– given that much of the decisions you have chosen to make have allowed you to become financially invested in the predicament you are now in (says the Lord). Your mother would be willing to help out–> as long as you (PATIENTLY) go up to her and express your apologies for what has occurred in the past 6 months. If it would be worth it, Rob (the Lord– that is My name) to look up to who saved you from some of the decisions you have made in the past. Believe Me (says the Lord)–> you have made alot of decisions without thinking about the future of these; but am I the one who says “don’t do it this way?” Am I the one who brought you to this place you are now in?” The Lord has spoken….

             Rob, the Lord has been seriously trying to get your attention–> desperately He wants to have a real loving relationship with you….

             And Rob, my parents did not bring me up in a church. The Lord chased me down on my own terms. As a Christian, there are plenty of resources around you that would be of assistance.

             Rob, before you respond; simply yourself this question–> should I believe anything that has been typed by this man? The answer will be revealed if you take the time the next few days and listen to the suggestion(s) that will be brought your way very soon…

             Take care, Rob…

             -Thcott

             
             
           • on February 8, 2012 at 11:16 pm Rob

             Um no, I should not believe anything you type as you are clearly insane. You talk to an imaginary friend, and you got so many things wrong about my financial situation. When I said ‘currently’ flat broke I meant for that day, and this is because my mother wont financial support my younger brother, so I have to. So your lord clearly does not exist and you should see a psychiatrist.

             
             
           • on February 9, 2012 at 10:23 am Thcott

             Rob,

             This is going to be my last conversation with you.

             You seem (to me) to spend alot of time telling other people what they need to think but you are (borderline) unteachable and don’t listen to other people’s thoughts.

             This will continue to plague you throughout your life–> unless you become teachable and reasonable.

             As for what I passed on for you from the
             Lord–> This is on you whether you choose to obey. Should you, your life will become increasingly manageable. Should it not, well; the problems are going to increase….

             
             
           • on February 9, 2012 at 4:38 pm Rob

             I think I will leave it up to the people who read this conversation to determine which one of us is unreasonable. Hopefully one of them is a psychiatrist.

             
             
     • on January 30, 2012 at 11:04 am | Reply SteveInCO

       Yep. My initial impression from the Tree thread is correct.

       Thcott came here to level ad hominem (personal) attacks under the initial cloak of being a kindly stranger advising Jessica that she was being led astray. I guess when the actual _facts_ of the controversy are against you, all you can do is sling mud at the people involved.

       No points for originality there, others have tried.

       
       
       • on February 18, 2012 at 11:11 am | Reply Deadhound

         My exact impression also.

         And to Thcott. Try to do something new, like for an instance, have an original thought…

         
         
258. on January 29, 2012 at 2:05 pm | Reply N.J. Jun

     Dear Jessica,

     As one who has fought for years against the evils of small-town provincialism, bigotry, and xenophobia, I know how emotionally, psychologically, and even physically taxing your struggle must be, and I applaud you for facing it with grace, courage, and resolve. Keep fighting the good fight and know that thousands of us are standing in firm solidarity with you.

     Sincerely,

     Dr. N.J. Jun
     Wichita Falls, TX

     
     
259. on January 29, 2012 at 6:36 pm | Reply Mr. Joe Hibiki

     *facepalm*
     Sigh…Tom Bauman and the arrogant Christians like him are the reason me and my brothers and sisters in Christ get such a bad rep. Plus all the other terrible stuff we done (and yes, I admit that we’ve done it).

     So, let me just apologize for this idiot’s prideful bullshit, Ms. Ahlquist. If it means anything, I’m a Christian and I agree with you, to a point. If there’s anything that’s causing a student to have trouble in school, it should be dealt with, be it bullies, religious banners, or anything else.

     I just wished it didn’t have to become such a huge deal instead of a quick fix.

     
     
260. on January 29, 2012 at 6:54 pm | Reply mark

     I’m still drinking.

     
     
261. on January 30, 2012 at 6:08 am | Reply Scott

     http://rationalrevolution.net/articles/treatytripoli.htm

     For those that think the US was founded on Christian beliefs, I present to you the Treaty of Tripoli. Penned by George Washington, pushed to the Senate by 2nd President John Adams, and unanimously ratified by the Senate.

     
     
     • on January 30, 2012 at 6:10 am | Reply Scott

       Oh and check Article 11 of the Treaty specifically.

       
       
262. on January 30, 2012 at 6:25 am | Reply bettina gleier

     http://www.faz.net/aktuell/gesellschaft/jung/amerika-kreuzzug-fuer-den-atheismus-11630355.html

     don’t stop thinking – you are not alone!

     
     
     • on January 30, 2012 at 7:39 am | Reply mark

       that is a beautiful picture of Jessica.

       
       
263. on January 30, 2012 at 11:30 am | Reply Dave

     Jessica, keep up the good work. You’re a brave one. This is an important fight for freedom for all of us.

     
     
264. on January 30, 2012 at 12:41 pm | Reply Stupid Americans

     Thank you so much for fighting for our rights Jessica.

     Each day you screwed your town with litigation over a useless imaginary fight over a plaque is one day closer for freedom to us all.

     As a dumb American who is too stupid to see your little publicity stunt for what it really is, just like my fellow idiot Americans who support this nonsense, I wish to applaud you for your fight against the inhumanity caused by this dangerous WMD plaque.

     Remember Jessica, each day you eat, starvation is that much farther away in the world.

     …bless you for fighting those evil 50 year old plaques in the world, we know just how dangerous they can be.

     Why just the other day, a plaque handing off of some house that said “bless this house” was attacking a family that tried to enter it!!! I wish you and your ACLU lawyers were there to save this family that did no harm to anyone.

     You are a true hero, not like those people who climb up ladders into burning buildings and save people from fires, that’s easy….

     …or those people who open other people up and operate on them or do simply little things like organ replacement, what an easy job they have….

     …or those folks that get up every day and make sure we have food, water, electricity, and all of the basic life necessities we are used to, nope those folks have it easy too.

     Nope Jessica, it’s people like you with your ACLU clowns and big opinions that need to be shoved down an entire town’s throat that make the world a better place…

     Sincerely,

     A stupid uneducated American with little understanding of common sense and logic like the rest of these morons blowing smoke up your butt.

     
     
     • on January 30, 2012 at 2:40 pm | Reply Rob

       Weird, you sound familiar, it’s like you’ve posted on this site before and changed your name because people called you ignorant or something. Maybe its because ‘stupid americans’ all sound the same. Oh well.

       You clearly have no idea what this ‘useless imaginary fight’ really means and what it is truly standing up for. It is standing up for the true values that your country was founded on, and more specifically the founding fathers and Roger Williams. Please go and read their ideals in regards to the separation of church and state, and why they are so important to a secular America.

       
       
     • on February 2, 2012 at 12:36 am | Reply Mel

       1. you absolutely miss the point
       2. what good are you doing for the world spending your time hating on a girl who knows more about the law than you do?
       3. It’s people like you who are giving her all the ‘publicity’ she never asked for.

       You did get one thing right. You’re stupid with little understanding.

       I’ll pray for you, read a Bible, maybe God can smack you upside the head.

       
       
265. on January 30, 2012 at 12:56 pm | Reply Lauren

     Jessica,

     You seem like a well-spoken, intelligent girl and you deserve love and support from your peers, not ignorant bullying. I’m always baffled when situations like this come up and fervent defenders of “Christianity” do things like “pray for you to get curb-stomped” or call you “cunt”, as though their Jesus would have EVER condoned such hateful, violent treatment of their fellow (wo)man.

     You are no doubt above such unsupported arguments and unintelligent harassment, but you’re also a young girl, and things like that are still hurtful. Know that you will forever be a stronger person because you took the time and energy to defend yourself and your constitution, and you presented rational, valid arguments rather than making personal attacks and spouting things you’ve been told, rather than learned for yourself.

     This Tom person is clearly just under educated and really needs to understand that what you’re doing has NOTHING to do with him or his faith, and just because his parents/family raised him to be blindly loyal to a God (whose message he’s CLEARLY ignoring) doesn’t mean that you’re bound by the same limited mind set.

     I was raised very conservatively but grew, much like yourself, to eventually doubt and inevitably lose faith in not just the modern-Western-Christian God, but the corruption and lack of finesse in organized faiths, no matter their origin. Nothing has come along to affect me so personally as your school’s prayer, but I know I wouldn’t have hesitated to do the same thing. You’re brave, but moreover, you’re smart and independent and I applaud your sophisticated nature for your age.

     Much love and support,
     Lauren
     St. Paul, MN

     
     
     • on January 30, 2012 at 1:27 pm | Reply Lauren

       MOREOVER, to add some more specifics to the above posted Facebook thread:

       David Ryan Gronksi: Your mis-use of the word “raping” is appalling and disgusting. Please do not equate the financial burden of taxes with the sexual/emotional savagery that is rape.

       Tom Bauman: Your use of “retarded” is uncalled for. It marginalizes a population of people with no control over their intelligence at birth. Please do not be so ignorant of others’ disabilities. Also, PLEASE stop using the phrase “little girls” as though that should be negative. What’s wrong with girls? Phrases like “wat can you expect from little girls” (never mind being riddled with spelling errors) sends the implication that something bad is to be expected from women, and that just goes to show, AGAIN, how you easily degrade an entire group of fellow humans on earth. Also, the label “Bitch”, when making your “good” arguments is just a nasty filler to show how uninformed and angry you are. Labeling someone a nasty word, while failing to prove an argument you didn’t prepare yourself, doesn’t make you sound smarter, or more right. You sound hateful, stupid, and mean. Women, Atheists, and Mentally Handicapped people seem to rank pretty low on your list of “people you respect”. That’s neat, coming from a Christian [love one another, and all that. or do you - like most American Christians - chose to follow the bible and its teachings selectively?]. Also, that means you’ve offended OVER HALF THE PLANET by making those statements, which I think, effectively, would disprove your earlier claim that “my opinion of you is shared by 95% of this community, school, country, and planet.”. [Side note: Even if you hadn't offended women (who make up a little over half of America's populous) you certainly lose your claim about the planet's support, as a majority of the planet is Islamic - and I promise you that you do NOT have their support.]

       Michael Shaghalian: OH. MY. Who raised you? What makes you feel the need to refer to another human as a “cunt”? Such a label given to ANYONE is horribly offensive, hateful, and again, marginalizes a group of people while attaching a negative connotation to slang for female genitalia. You should be ashamed of the way you speak to others.

       
       
266. on January 30, 2012 at 4:04 pm | Reply Michael

     Jessica,

     I don’t get it.

     If you were a vegetarian, you wouldn’t seek to ban meat from the school cafeteria, so why do you want to banish a prayer that reflects the beliefs of the vast majority of the students just because you think you are an atheist?

     Anyway, what’s an atheist? An atheist is someone who thinks God doesn’t believe in him or her.

     Wake up!

     You were created by God and are his daughter.

     Check out the teachings of Lee Strobel, a former atheist, and Expelled on youtube. They will change your life and let you see that God really does love you.

     
     
     • on January 30, 2012 at 5:59 pm | Reply Scott

       To quote you, “I don’t get it”. You are correct sir, you do not. It is about defending the principles of our constitution. It is not an attack on religion.

       As for your definition of Atheist, is is also something that you do not get. The definition of Atheist is someone who does not believe in God.

       What you said would be similar to saying that Santa doesn’t believe in you. Santa is not real (much like God), so it does not make sense to say he does or does not believe in us.

       For those who want us to read Strobel’s book, I will if you read “The Case Against Faith: A Critical Look at Lee Strobel’s The Case for Faith (4th ed., 2006)
       Paul Doland”

       
       
       • on January 31, 2012 at 11:57 am | Reply Michael

         Scott,

         With all due respect to your clever sarcasm, you didn’t answer my question.

         The question is: if you wouldn’t try to ban meat for those students who are not vegetarian, why would you try to ban prayer for those students who are not atheists?

         Try again. Put on your thinking cap. You can do it. I know you can….

         Here’s a hint: the Constitution does not say that Government should forbid religion, but just the opposite: that the Government should not establish a particular denomination of religion.

         To pretend that the Constitution is anti God means that it would forbid the Declaration of Independence, which makes repeated use of the term Creator.

         And what about the statue of Moses and the 10 commandments in Congress and the Supreme Court?

         The elites know that God has power and value. They want the masses to remain ignorant and mired in futile superstitions.

         As for my definition of atheist, it is the right one. We all know that God exists. The problem with atheists is that they feel that their lives are insignificant or that God is unfair. Therefore they vote God out. But it is an act of spite. They are really saying: God doesn’t believe in me and doesn’t give me what I want. So I wont believe in him.

         It is incredibly stupid. Like saying: Gravity hurts people who jump out of windows. Therefore I wont believe in it.

         Here’s a really good book by an author in New Hampshire, called The Last Day, by James Landis. It deals with a situation siimilar to Jessica’s: a father who is a veterinarian and hunter. A man like Jessica’s firefighter dad, whose wife dies. The son and father are both devastated and find their faith challenged. But in the end they retain it. Read it. It is a great novel, very profound and fun to read. Extremely moving. You won’t be disappointed.

         
         
         • on January 31, 2012 at 2:35 pm | Reply SteveInCO

           “As for my definition of atheist, it is the right one. We all know that God exists. The problem with atheists is that they feel that their lives are insignificant or that God is unfair. Therefore they vote God out. But it is an act of spite. They are really saying: God doesn’t believe in me and doesn’t give me what I want. So I wont believe in him.

           It is incredibly stupid. Like saying: Gravity hurts people who jump out of windows. Therefore I wont believe in it.”

           I agree this would be retarded. If this were what we thought. We are not petulantly mad at god for not giving us what we want. We DO NOT believe there IS a god. It’s utter bullshit! Can’t you wrap your brain around that concept?

           
           
           • on January 31, 2012 at 5:01 pm Michael

             the ancients understood that God is factually verifiably true:

             Psalm 19 For the director of music. A psalm of David.
             1 The heavens declare the glory of God;
             the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
             2 Day after day they pour forth speech;
             night after night they reveal knowledge.
             3 They have no speech, they use no words;
             no sound is heard from them.

             so it doesn’t matter what you believe if the facts show otherwise.

             for example you can believe that eating strychnine will not kill you. and then when you die after ingesting it, your fans can always claim that something else did you in.

             if you want to be an idiot who gravity exists and thinks you can dance your way down from the top of the eiffel tower, go ahead. just don’t take any other fools along with you.

             
             
           • on January 31, 2012 at 8:23 pm Rob

             Michael,
             “God is factually verifiably true”? Then you use a poem which basically says “look at the sky, see, god is real” to prove your point. That is not factually verifiably true. There is no link between the sky and a powerful invisible creature.

             Ancients also thought earth was the center of the universe, they came to many incorrect conclusions, god is one of them.

             “it doesn’t matter what you believe if the facts show otherwise”. I totally agree with that. One fact might interest you, there is zero evidence that a god exists. Another fact that might interest you; Adam, Eve, Noah, Moses, and Jesus are fictional characters in a fantasy book.

             
             
     • on January 30, 2012 at 7:12 pm | Reply Rob

       Expelled? With Ben Stein? That movie was anti god and anti intelligent design. It was a spoof movie mocking the creationists, like scary movie mocks a typical horror.
       I laughed all the way through that film, Ben Stein is a master comedian. Seriously, watch the movie again and take note of the insincerity in his voice, he is a genius!

       
       
       • on January 31, 2012 at 12:05 pm | Reply Michael

         I have seen the movie many times. I don’t perceive Stein being sarcastic.

         Look at his interview with Dawkins right at the end. Very profound.

         Maybe you’re one of those people who reads Mein Kampf and thinks Hitler is just making fun of anti-semites. If you want to be a moron, try not to inflict it on the rest of us.

         Here are some comments about him from Wikipedia:

         Stein has denounced evolution, which he and other intelligent design advocates call “Darwinism”, declaring it to be “a painful, bloody chapter in the history of ideologies,” “the most compelling argument yet for Imperialism,” and the inspiration for the Holocaust.[37][38] Stein does not say belief in evolution alone leads to genocide, but that scientific materialism is a necessary component.[39] He co-wrote and stars in Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed, a film that aims to persuade viewers that evolution was instrumental to the rise of the eugenics movement, Nazi Germany, and the Holocaust, and portrays advocates of intelligent design as victims of intellectual discrimination by the scientific community, which has rejected intelligent design as creationist pseudoscience.

         ….

         In a Trinity Broadcasting Network interview with Paul Crouch Jr. regarding Stein’s movie, Stein made the following statement about science and religion:

         Stein: When we just saw that man, I think it was Mr. Myers, talking about how great scientists were, I was thinking to myself the last time any of my relatives saw scientists telling them what to do they were telling them to go to the showers to get gassed … that was horrifying beyond words, and that’s where science — in my opinion, this is just an opinion — that’s where science leads you.

         Crouch: That’s right.

         Stein: …Love of God and compassion and empathy leads you to a very glorious place, and science leads you to killing people.

         Crouch: Good word, good word.

         At the University of Vermont, Stein was invited to receive an honorary degree and be the commencement speaker for the graduating class of 2009. The university president Dan Fogel received complaints about Stein’s planned appearance, due to Stein’s views on evolution. Due to the furor, Stein declined his commencement invitation.

         
         
         • on January 31, 2012 at 7:19 pm | Reply Rob

           The only things Hitler needed to know for the holocaust was how the breeding of animals worked, which humans have known for thousands of years. He also needed to be a racist and to hate jews, in fact he really just needed to be a christian, which he was.
           Evolution is a fact, and I would prefer the children of this world be told the truth, rather than what Ben Stein says.

           Science also leads to saving billions of peoples lives, and a lot of that is through evolutionary research. Why don’t you complain to your government about the extreme military spending, something which does lead to killing people, and instead spend it on education and scientific research.

           
           
           • on February 1, 2012 at 3:48 pm Michael

             HItler was no Christian.

             See this book on his hatred of the Church:
             Hitler, the War, and the Pope by Ronald J. Rychlak

             Hitler would rail about “the Jew-God and his Deputy in Rome [referring to the Pope]“.

             The chief rabbi of Rome converted to Catholicism after the war in gratitude to the Pope’s efforts to save Italian Jewry from the Nazis:
             salvationisfromthejews * com/alljews * html#zolli

             I agree with you about military spending. I also agree with Kevin Trudeau that most medical science is devoted to perpetuating illness rather than fostering genuine health:
             Natural Cures “They” Don’t Want You To Know About by Kevin Trudeau

             
             
           • on February 1, 2012 at 8:01 pm Rob

             Hitler was definitely a christian, the vatican celebrated his birthday every year. In Mein Kampf hitler says he is doing gods work by destroying the jewish people. His commanders had to recite ‘I swear in the name of almighty god’ when swearing fealty to him. The armies uniform had ‘god on our side’ on it.

             And Kevin Trudeau is a salesman, who lied in his infomercials, believes aids is a hoax, has been convicted of larceny and fraud, and given a lifetime ban from promoting anymore products.

             
             
     • on January 31, 2012 at 11:50 am | Reply SteveInCO

       Apparently Scott and Rob replied well enough that Michael just slithered off and repeated the same tripe over on the thread about the holiday tree.

       
       
       • on January 31, 2012 at 12:07 pm | Reply Michael

         I work from my office and thus could not write back till this morning.

         Try not to jump to conclusions that only show your own narrow mindedness, bigotry, intolerance, and stupidity.

         Exactly how you think about evolution.

         Try this amazing site to pry open your wee brain:

         ScienceAgainstEvolution.org

         
         
         • on January 31, 2012 at 2:52 pm | Reply SteveInCO

           Good grief what a load of garbage. Let’s just take their 75 theses. Well, other than #59 and #60, which no evolutionist would consider controversial. Evolution does not state that we pass on acquired characteristics, and if the authors of this site happen to think that’s what it says… well, they know nothing about what they think they are attacking. Come to think of it #62 through #65 have nothing to do with the _actual_ theory of evolution either, though in some cases I could see how someone might oversimplify a description of it and end up mangling it to look like some of these statements. So we have strawman attacks. How much of the rest of this is fallacious?

           A bunch of statements address cosmology and the beginning of life, which are not parts of the theory of evolution–evolution cannot happen until life exists. To be sure, there are naturalistic theories of both, and they disagree with your favorite book, but they aren’t part of the _theory of evolution_ so the lack of _actual understanding_ of what it is that this site is attacking becomes more and more obvious.

           Many of the other statements boil down to arguments about irreducible complexity, which have been refuted by biologists such as Richard Dawkins countless times–they are far more qualified to do so than I am.

           I read about 50 of them and they fall into three categories: arguments against things that the theory of evolution doesn’t actually say, mere statements about what the theory is that may or may not be correctly attributed–probably trying to construct an “argument”, complaints that science hasn’t figured absolutely everything out yet (but at least they don’t make stuff up like they did 3000 years ago), stuff that has nothing to do with evolution, but rather other modern science (and is wrong), or stuff that at least directly attacks the theory of evolution, but has been refuted.

           I could go on, but the 75 Feces are just not worth any more of my time.

           
           
         • on January 31, 2012 at 7:55 pm | Reply Rob

           Evolution does not deal with the origin of life, natural selection begins after the first self replicating molecule. Even the people researching intelligent design understand that evolution is true, including apes to humans. But since no one, and I mean no one, knows the origin of life, they are postulating a really powerful intelligent designer or god.

           That is fine, but they need to produce some (I actually mean any) evidence to support that claim. However there are already some ideas on the origin that are supported by evidence, which scientists are working on now. These ideas are not scientific facts and should not be taught in public schools (theses #75), evolution however is and should be taught alongside gravity and the periodic table.

           
           
           • on February 1, 2012 at 3:41 pm Michael

             Nice reply. Now you seem to agree that Ben Stein supports ID. So were you just lying before?

             Do you remember the very end of the Expelled, when Stein asks Dawkins what he will do if he really encounters God after he dies. What will he say since God has given him so much money, fame, success?

             Dawkins replies somewhat sheepishly that he would ask God what Bertrand Russel asked: Why did You make it so hard to see You?

             Now here’s what I would like to ask back to Mr. Dawkins: DNA is very hard to see, yet you persisted to search and seek until you think you found it.

             Simple people are able to see God as the Master behind everything. They don’t need PhD degrees, expensive microscopes or other lab equipment. Yet they can see Him all the same.
             Why is that Mr. Dawkins?

             And the answer is: you cannot hope to see God if the eyes of your heart are sealed shut.

             Did you ever see this? Dawkins unable to explain how mutations lead to an increase in genetic information and complexity! Mutations are all deleterious. Nothing improves through mutations:
             youtube * com/watch?v=zaKryi3605g

             see also this:
             evolutionfacts * com/Ev-V2/2evlch14a * htm

             
             
           • on February 1, 2012 at 3:50 pm Michael

             “Even the people researching intelligent design understand that evolution is true, including apes to humans.”

             Can you provide sources for this statement?

             
             
           • on February 1, 2012 at 5:32 pm Michael

             see this excellent online report:
             rcg * org/books/effai * html

             
             
           • on February 2, 2012 at 12:11 am Rob

             Michael,
             I was definitely joking before when I said Ben Stein was a genius. He is far from it.

             Simple people ‘think’ they are able to see god as the master behind everything, but simple people also saw the world as flat, and they thought the sun went around the earth.

             For a very long time, simple people thought that living creatures are perfectly ‘designed’ for their environment, that they must have been created and placed in that environment. But science once again has opened our eyes, showing us that living creatures ‘adapted’ to their environment. Furthermore, the ones that did not adapt sufficiently, ended up dead, and the survivors were able to pass on their genes to the next generation. This has been going on for 4,000,000,000 years.

             And yes I have seen that youtube video of Dawkins, it is a fake. You can even hear the sound recording of the ladies voice change after she stops talking, meaning that the audio was placed on top of the video.

             
             
267. on January 30, 2012 at 10:46 pm | Reply Madeleine Young

     Hey Jessica,

     I just wanted to show you my support and say that I am inspired by the courage and resolve you have shown, as well as the resilience you have maintained in the face of such brutal, ignorant hatred. I am so glad that the atheist movement is finally coming into the mainstream and that we have you on our side. I admire your strength, and I respect your commitment to this nation and the rights it guarantees us all, even as it its people seek to take away all our rights and to intimidate and demoralize you.

     “Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that ‘my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.’” –Isaac Asimov

     With all my love and support,
     Madeleine Young

     
     
     • on January 31, 2012 at 12:06 pm | Reply SteveInCO

       Alas, in response to the Good Doctor Asimov, ignorance may not be qualitatively as good… but it has as many votes if not more.

       Anyhow, Madeleine, you’ve got it all wrong. Jessica is just some brat wanting attention and/or manipulated by the devious pondscum at the ACLU. ( /sarcasm ). That’s what the “nice” Christian attackers come over here to say, playing a good cop/bad cop role, in some cases even going so far as saying the hate that the rabid ones are projecting is “understandable”. “Jessica, they are bad for hating you but you asked for it” is basically the line they are peddling, and they try to give her an easy out, “just admit you were manipulated.”

       How contemptible.

       Both the outright bullies and the condescending passive aggressive psychoanalyzers work towards the same goal, getting Jessica to stop.

       Sarcasm aside: Madeleine, I think you got it right, personally.

       PS for those Christians who not only condemn the haters but do not attack Jessica in some more passive-agressive way, this is well and good, and I thank you. I especially thank those who realize that this is a fight FOR their rights as well as mine.

       I would like to think, however, that you have in the past and will in future confront these bullies (including the passive aggressive types who try to devalue Jessica’s courage by making up psychological motives for what she has done) when you see them in your churches and in your communities, rather than only coming here to commiserate with their victim. The bullies might listen to other Christians. They surely won’t listen to atheists; they’d rather stone us or drop anchors on our faces.

       
       
268. on January 31, 2012 at 8:03 am | Reply Andreas Schütt

     Hi Jessica,

     greetings and support I’d like to send to you from Hamburg, Germany.
     You are not alone !!
     The powers of reason, freedom of thought and humanism are on your side.
     On their side, only the fears and the ghosts of ignorance gather in miserable appearances.

     If you feel alone, remember ‘Imagine’ from John Lennon:

     “Imagine there’s no heaven
     It’s easy if you try
     No hell below us
     Above us only sky
     Imagine all the people
     Living for today…

     You may say I’m a dreamer
     But I’m not the only one
     I hope someday you’ll join us
     And the world will be as one”

     Keep strong – people think of you!

     Andreas

     
     
269. on January 31, 2012 at 3:16 pm | Reply Atheist

     I wholeheartedly support what you’re doing, Jessica.

     Christians should read the Bible cover to cover, every single page, critically thinking over what you have read. And compare it with what modern science knows about the world.

     You can do a lot of reading and reason out for yourself that if everyone behaved themselves, this would be a much better world. You can’t be the one anarchic selfish person and take advantage of everyone else; everybody else would do it and the world would go to pieces.

     No need to fear the wrath of an imaginary patriarchal sky god; you just need to use your own brain and do some reading. And do your part to be decent to other human beings.

     
     
270. on February 1, 2012 at 3:33 am | Reply Johan

     Greetings from Sweden.
     I support you in every way!

     Religion should be taught in religion-classes, nothing else.
     State and church should be completely separated.
     Religion has no place in politics.

     
     
271. on February 1, 2012 at 9:50 am | Reply Ethan Rogati

     Jessica, first of all, let me say that I admire you for being someone who isn’t afraid to question the status quo and think for yourself. That said, I question if you’re willing to let others think for themselves as well.

     Why? Because I am a Christian. I am 36 years old and have wrestled with what I believe and what I think for a long time and still have come to a conclusion that I believe in God.

     From what I’ve read here, it seems that you think that the two are mutually exclusive. That’s entirely your right. I’m not going to tell you not to be an atheist or to try to change how you think, with one exception.

     The Constitution specifically allows for freedom of religion. A secular nation, which is what you’ve expressed that you want, is not Constitutionally allowed. Nor, to be fair, is a Christian or any other kind of theocracy. What is expressed is something in between, where everyone is allowed to think and believe what they have become convinced of through thought and faith (or choice to not rely on faith).

     I will end where I began. I do admire you. It takes guts to stand up to a majority. The funny thing is, in a way, you might have something in common with what the Bible teaches that Jesus Christ did, which is stand up to the religious majority of his day.

     I don’t want to convert you. I don’t want to force you to believe what I do. I just want the same freedom you want for yourself, a freedom to come to my own conclusions. A completely secular society does not allow for that. And most importantly, the Constitution does. Thanks for taking the time to read this.

     
     
     • on February 1, 2012 at 6:12 pm | Reply Michael

       Ethan states it well:

       I will end where I began. I do admire you. It takes guts to stand up to a majority. The funny thing is, in a way, you might have something in common with what the Bible teaches that Jesus Christ did, which is stand up to the religious majority of his day.

       Jessica probably hates the brain dead idiocy of so many Christians who drool in front of the TV watching the Stuporbowl and indulge in other vapid pointless forms of entertainment.

       We Christians are to blame for the skepticism of people like Jessica. And whenever we are in power we persecute people who don’t think exactly like us. Jessica is right to be suspicious. Look at the history of bloody internecine Christian warfare.

       But she should not throw out the baby with the bathwater.

       The challenge is not to let all the rottten Christocrites destroy your love for God and Jesus.

       No easy task.

       But Jesus never said it would be.

       
       
272. on February 1, 2012 at 10:16 am | Reply Rob

     Ethan,
     you seem a little confused, a secular nation is exactly what the constitution and the founding fathers were trying to establish. A secular nation by definition allows everyone to think and believe what they want, to come to their own conclusions. But you are not free to come to your own conclusions with intrusive marketing of christianity within public schools. This entire case is really about the prevention of marketing to children, so that they can truly be free.

     
     
     • on February 1, 2012 at 10:31 am | Reply Ethan Rogati

       Rob, I am confused by the word usage, I guess. A secular government and a secular nation are two different things. To me, a secular nation is a nation devoid of religion. A secular government, which is what I believe the Constitution specifies, is a government which takes a neutral position on religion, that is, neither advocating one particular religion (establishing a state religion) or forbidding the free practice thereof.

       Christianity shouldn’t be marketed in any case. As a Christian, I can heartily agree with that. I’m unsure that the class from Cranston in the 60s was trying to “market” anything. That said, times and societies change. What was the norm in the 60s is not today. I have little issue with what Ms. Ahlquist did at her school. It’s more her statements on this site, Facebook and Twitter that I am raising some issue with.

       So, I disagree with your first statement. The Constitution and the Founding Fathers were not trying to establish a secular nation. They were trying to establish a secular national government. Two different things.

       
       
       • on February 1, 2012 at 10:35 am | Reply Rob

         A secular nation does not mean devoid of religion.

         And yes, the government cannot advocate one particular religion, and since the school is classified as part of the government, it cannot advertise christianity.

         What statements on facebook and twitter do you have issue with?

         
         
         • on February 1, 2012 at 10:43 am | Reply Ethan Rogati

           Let me clarify, that is what the term means to me, which is where the problem lies. It is not me being confused, but rather not understanding the term as being defined by the original user. To have a usable language, both people in a conversation must be using the term in the same way. So, it’s my fault for inferring from Jessica’s statements what she meant.

           I would like to hear from Jessica on this. What does a “secular nation” mean to you?

           
           
           • on February 1, 2012 at 10:53 am Rob

             You may have to post directly to Jessica on twitter.

             The founding fathers like Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, and Thomas Jefferson were trying to establish a secular nation which means separation of church and state. Secular government and secular nation are the same thing.

             Unfortunately the politics in America is solely focused of gaining votes that nearly all politicians claim to be religious and do everything they can to please religious lobbies. This is far from secular, this is an abuse of power and an abuse of the people.

             
             
         • on February 1, 2012 at 6:18 pm | Reply Michael

           Does a secular nation write the word Creator in its declaration of independence?

           And what part of the prayer that Jessica challenged is Christian?

           It does not even mention the name Jesus!

           Heavenly Father is a term accepted by Jews and Moslems as well.

           Does secular mean atheistic like the Soviet Union?

           If 99% of the students at a public school have religious convictions, does that mean the 1% can prohibit them from expressing them?

           You are a fool, Rob. The elites go to expensive private schools and fill their hearts and minds with notions of God. This gives them encouragment and incentive to succeed in life.

           These same elites, often Jewish, militate to ban prayer from public schools so the poor masses will not have access to God.

           But the God-fearing elites rule society. They command every resource and instrument of power.

           Why would you want to cede that control to them? Why allow them to monopolize access to God’s blessings?

           
           
           • on February 1, 2012 at 6:41 pm SteveInCO

             “If 99% of the students at a public school have religious convictions, does that mean the 1% can prohibit them from expressing them?”

             The STUDENTS can express them all they want. So the answer to your question is no, but you are asking the wrong question.

             They just cannot use school (i.e., government) resources to do so, and may not do so in a way that implies that the government agrees with their religion(s).

             
             
           • on February 1, 2012 at 7:03 pm Rob

             All it says in the DoI is nature’s god and creator, these terms can mean anything, not just your ‘god’. Otherwise it would have mentioned jesus or christian god, but instead it says ‘nature’s god’. The founding fathers (many but not all) were not religious at all, Jefferson even said that christianity was the most perverted system.

             Jews and muslims do not use heavenly father, in fact it was a jew that originally complained about the prayer.

             Actually I went to an expensive private school and the majority were atheists. This is due to the fact that in general, better education leads to not believing in god.

             
             
273. on February 1, 2012 at 12:56 pm | Reply Kate

     Jessica- you are a brave and intelligent girl. You are so much younger than me but I still look up you for everything you’ve been through to do WHAT IS RIGHT! Keep up the good work. You’ll come across ignorance and stupidity the rest of your life.- but don’t let that get you down. You have so much more going for yourself than all the haters who only believe what their parents and religious leaders have taught them. You are questioning what you’ve been taught and that is what makes you smart. Never stop questioning!

     
     
274. on February 1, 2012 at 3:47 pm | Reply Glenn

     Hooray for Jessica! THANK YOU for being so brave. I heard about your case through Freedom of Religion Foundation. Great group at:
     http://www.ffrf.org

     Just this quick note of support, you are awesome!!! THANK YOU SO MUCH JESSICA for standing up to a bunch of know-nothings.

     Part of the problem is we don’t teach government/civics anymore and most are ignorant about keeping church out of government. People in the know understand that athiests just want to feel included; we pay the same tax dollars as the rest.

     And hey–if it was an ISLAMIC prayer on the wall in a school, these rubes would be apoplectic, right? You know they would!

     You go girl, GO JESSICA, you rock!! Be strong! Thanks again! ! ! ! !
     Glenn in Illinois

     
     
     • on February 1, 2012 at 6:43 pm | Reply Michael

       you can feel included.

       put up your own unprayer to your own ungod.

       no one will stop you.

       unless it’s your own conscience.

       or perhaps you’ll be laughing too hard to write.

       
       
       • on February 1, 2012 at 7:06 pm | Reply Rob

         It is illegal to put up an unprayer as well

         
         
275. on February 1, 2012 at 4:00 pm | Reply Glenn

     P. S. to some of the un-educated commenters above, who simply don’t understand how the universe came to be. here’s a great PBS video that explains it:

     Hint: no god had anything to do with it.

     http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/origins/

     Great 4 part series on NOVA, hosted by an internationally reknown astrophysicist.

     Hey Jessica you might like it too since you are one smart cookie. Actually I bet you’ve already seen the whole series! Cheers!

     
     
     • on February 1, 2012 at 6:19 pm | Reply Michael

       you;re right that “no god had anything to do with it.”

       The God did it and sustains it.

       
       
276. on February 1, 2012 at 5:40 pm | Reply Christie

     I am so sorry that you have had to deal with all of these ignorant people attacking you. Aren’t christians supposed to ask themselves “what would Jesus do?”. I’m positive (according to how the bible portrays Jesus) he would not recommend saying “She’s not human, she’s garbage” or “when I take over the world I’m going to do a holocaust on all the athiests” as I have seen on a particular site about this whole ordeal. These people need to realize that you are fighting for every American’s rights and they are trying to infringe upon yours. I would love to see the stink these “christians” would make if there were some sort of an athiest quote on the wall in the school.

     Stay strong, fellow athiest. We may not be the majority but we won’t be bullied into silence.

     
     
277. on February 1, 2012 at 5:41 pm | Reply Michael

     Can anyone explain how sexually compatible organisms evolved separately?

     How is it that the sexual anatomy of male and female is compatible on all levels: physically, emotionally, hormonally, structurally and functionally in brief.

     Do you really think that’s a coincidence?

     Is it not a sign that someone designed us for companionship, love, and affection beyond sheer procreation?

     
     
     • on February 1, 2012 at 6:19 pm | Reply Rob

       No I don’t think it is a coincidence. Its Evolution, and they evolved together not separately.

       
       
       • on February 1, 2012 at 6:22 pm | Reply Michael

         how did they evolve together?

         what a wonderful coincidence.

         
         
       • on February 1, 2012 at 6:23 pm | Reply Michael

         why would evolution create separate sexes? and how did it “just happen” to design ppposite sex organs perfectly compatible in structure and function?

         are you really so dense?

         
         
         • on February 1, 2012 at 7:36 pm | Reply Rob

           It did not ‘just happen’, that is the complete opposite of evolution, please go and read an evolution book by a reputable scientist.

           They evolved together because they were living together. There are many things that evolved separately, like the many types of eyes that are present today.

           
           
           • on February 6, 2012 at 5:07 pm Michael

             they were living together so they evolved together?

             did they ask the ungod to help them out?

             something like this:

             Dear Ungod,

             I would like to enjoy my partner more. So could you please just happen to arrange a mutually convenient evolutionary event, transforming the male sexual apparatus of one of us (preferably him) into perfectly compatible female apparati?

             I know you don’t exist, but just in case you do, please send me a playboy centerfold.

             I am tired of Steve and wish him to evolve into Eve.

             Thanks ungod.

             You’re as good as the uncola: 7-Up.

             
             
           • on February 7, 2012 at 1:14 am Rob

             The evolution of reproductive organs occurred over a billion years ago, and is present in almost all animals and plants. Humans were not around during this time, so your entire example of praying to an ungod is irrelevant, since their were no gods as creatures hadn’t made them up yet.

             It would have taken millions of evolutionary events, not one, to produce the kind of sexual reproduction in all modern plants and animals. I don’t know if you have noticed, but plants don’t have sex, and were not looking to ‘enjoy my partner more’. Humans have not been here forever, so you cannot use them as an example for how sexual reproduction evolves.

             Again, please go and read an evolutionary biology textbook or book. Seriously, you know less about evolution than my 6 yr old niece.

             
             
278. on February 1, 2012 at 5:46 pm | Reply Michael

     See this article to understand why most of you are unable to think rationally about God: “How the Public Schools Keep Your Child a Prisoner of the State”:
     lewrockwell * com/decoster/decoster191 * html

     Remember that the purpose of the American educational system is to teach people …. until they are no longer able to think.

     See also this excerpt from an excellent online study about Evolution from the Restored Church of God:

     rcg * org/books/effai * html

     Complexity From Chaos
     When first discovered in the 1920s, cells were thought to be simple “homogeneous globules of plasma,” meaning that a simple chemical process could be applied to their creation and replication. But times have certainly changed!

     With more powerful technology, we have been able to look deep into cells and their fundamental building blocks. Cells can be likened to microscopic factory-cities. There are waste removal highways, power factories, amazingly selective “force fields,” allowing flow of certain items in and out of the cell, and many more independent, yet highly cooperative, machines. This whole process is controlled by the nucleus of the cell, which has been described as a complex supercomputer.

     (Remember, in spite of all the complex cellular processes, evolutionary theory states that ALL things happened because of chance and necessity.)

     But this initial cosmic goop did not form directly into a working cell. First, amino acids must link together to become more complex structures—proteins. This also presents a problem. By their very nature, amino acids have to be specifically arranged to form functioning proteins.

     Could this happen by chance?

     If you randomly type keys on a computer, there is a chance that throughout the sequence, you may type a word. But what are the odds that you will type a proper sentence? Or what about a poem or a novel?

     Because of the extremely specific layout needed to form proteins, no “typing” errors can be made. This means that hundreds of amino acids would have to randomly—yet simultaneously—come together in a perfect configuration to form a working protein.

     There is even another degree of complexity required to form proteins. Not only do these amino acids have to come together as described above, they must bond in “an extraordinarily complex and irregular three-dimensional shape—a twisting, turning, tangled chain of amino acids” (“DNA and Other Designs,” Stephen C. Meyer). It has been estimated that the odds of forming just one protein naturalistically is approximately 1 in 10,125—not to mention the numerous proteins required for a living cell.

     If you take into account that most proteins are made up of more than 100 amino acids, you begin to see why evolutionary researchers often downplay chance, asserting that some “unknown” natural method gave rise to their formation. Yet, chance is exactly what hundreds of millions of students are conditioned to accept as fact.

     Obviously, one can see that creating a novel or poem by chance is impossible. Why then does the scientific community at large fail to understand that something exceedingly more complex could also not form by happenstance?

     Can you believe that anyone would consider this? However, this is only the beginning of the wrong assumptions science has afforded in the quest to maintain evolution.

     The fascinating point to notice in protein formation is the specificity required for them to function. Even at this very early stage, we notice “informational content” present. Because random organization does not form proteins, there is an existing structure—a blueprint—that must be followed to create them.

     In all historical forms of science, information content implies a creator of that information. Even in these simple proteins, this blueprint begs the question: Who or what created the informational blueprint for these proteins?

     But the signature on that blueprint becomes obvious—not when we look at the building blocks—but when we look directly at the cellular “building.”

     
     
     • on February 1, 2012 at 6:40 pm | Reply Rob

       What would the restored church of god know about evolution?
       Please don’t use the ‘typing on keyboard’ example, it is incorrect and irrelevant to evolution and how natural selection works. Natural selection is the opposite of chance, and mutations are the only random element.

       It shows that you have not taken the time to seriously look at the evidence for evolution, because you do not even know the basics. It also shows that you are just using other peoples arguments, which have already been refuted by scientists many times.

       Please do not be a sheep for corrupt institutions, think for yourself Michael, and set your mind free.

       
       
     • on February 1, 2012 at 6:44 pm | Reply SteveInCO

       And by the way cells were discovered in 1665 by Robert Hooke. Not in 1920. (It basically only took one look through a microscope.) Your “authoritative” site got the very first thing you quoted ridiculously wrong.

       Why don’t you try checking out real science instead of crap some yahoo makes up?

       
       
279. on February 1, 2012 at 5:49 pm | Reply Michael

     More quotes from the above study from evolutionists themselves:

     From the Horse’s Mouth
     It has been said that evolutionists are their own worst enemies. The bitter disagreements between scientists of competing or disagreeing disciplines of evolution often provide many of the proofs cited by those disagreeing with the overall theory.

     In fact, evolutionists questioning evolution is more significant than many would suggest. Imagine that a new archeological find were to reveal that the first-century apostles expressed doubt regarding the miracles and events proving that Jesus Christ was actually God in the flesh. Such a discovery would rattle the foundations of Christianity. These “experts”—the apostles—hold a lot of authority and, therefore, such a discovery would completely undermine Christianity.

     Why should statements from evolutionary experts be viewed in a different light? Their statements show a growing and deepening chasm in the theory of evolution—one that the tenets of evolution are no longer able to bridge.

     Even though we have already thoroughly disproven the concept of evolution, some concluding quotes will leave you certain about its fallacy. The Bible states, “A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver” (Prov. 25:11). It also states that “if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand” (Mark 3:25).

     Allow the following quotes from evolutionists to “fitly” close the subject of evolution in their own words and suppositions. They will show how divided this house is against itself, and why, through their words—and the proofs provided throughout—it cannot any longer stand:

     “The theory of evolution gives no answer to the important problem of the origin of life and presents only fallacious solutions to the problem of the nature of evolutive transformations… We are condemned to believe in evolution…Perhaps we are now in a worse position than in 1850 because we have searched for one century and we have the impression that the different hypotheses are now exhausted” (French evolutionist Jen Rostand).

     While we have covered many assumptions, there are others that drive home the weaknesses of evolution. They are so strong and discomforting that University of Southampton (England) evolutionist and zoologist G. A. Kerkut wrote the following conclusion to his book Implications of Evolution (keep in mind that the term biogenesis in the quote refers to “origin [genesis] of life [bio],” and not the Law of Biogenesis, as covered earlier): “The first assumption was that non-living things gave rise to living material. This is still just an assumption…There is, however, little evidence in favor of biogenesis and as yet we have no indication that it can be performed…It is therefore a matter of faith on the part of the biologist that biogenesis did occur…

     “The second assumption was that biogenesis occurred only once. This again is matter for belief rather than proof…

     “The third assumption was that Viruses, Bacteria, Protozoa and the higher animals were all interrelated… We have as of yet no definite evidence about the way in which the Viruses, Bacteria or Protozoa are interrelated.

     “The fourth assumption was that the Protozoa gave rise to the Metazoa… Here again nothing definite is known…

     “The fifth assumption was that the various invertebrate phyla are interrelated…The evidence, then for the affinities of the majority of the invertebrates is tenuous and circumstantial; not the type of evidence that would allow one to form a verdict of definite relationships.

     “The sixth assumption is that the invertebrates gave rise to the vertebrates…As Berrill states, ‘in a sense this account is science fiction.’

     “We are on somewhat stronger ground with the seventh assumption that the fish, amphibia, reptiles, birds, and mammals are interrelated. There is the fossil evidence to help us here, though many of the key transitions are not well-documented and we have as yet to obtain a satisfactory objective method of dating the fossils…The evidence that we have at present is insufficient to allow us to decide the answer to these problems.”

     Nobel laureate James Watson stated, “In contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers and mothers of scientists, a goodly number of scientists are not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid” (The Double Helix, p. 14).

     An editor of Science once remarked, “One of the most astonishing characteristics of scientists is that some of them are plain, old-fashioned bigots. Their zeal has a fanatical, egocentric quality characterized by disdain and intolerance for anyone or any value not associated with a special area of intellectual activity” (Phillip Abelson, “Bigotry in Science,” Science, April 1964).

     What fanatical, egocentric intolerance it truly is!

     
     
     • on February 2, 2012 at 3:47 pm | Reply KL Green

       Wherever you find someone who rejects evolution there too you find someone with a comic book ‘understanding’ of science and a grasp of evolution that amounts to barbershop gossip.

       
       
       • on February 3, 2012 at 3:14 pm | Reply SteveInCO

         Couldn’t agree more. I’ve called him twice on it already.

         Cells discovered in 1920, indeed!

         
         
         • on February 3, 2012 at 6:02 pm | Reply KL Green

           “I have never engaged in any activity that could remotely be confused with homework on this subject; however, I browsed a web page, talked it over with a minister, and consulted a few like-minded and equally ill-informed people, so I feel confident in saying that scientists are full of shit.”

           
           
         • on February 6, 2012 at 3:50 pm | Reply Michael

           The complexity of cells was discovered in 1920. Prior to that time they thought cells just consisted of undifferentiated cyctoplasm:

           trueorigin * org/isakrbtl * asp

           homes * chass * utoronto * ca/~sousa/teach/BEHE * pdf

           evanwiggs * com/articles/reasons * html

           
           
           • on February 6, 2012 at 8:26 pm kl green

             Irreducible Complexity is not science.

             
             
           • on February 7, 2012 at 4:11 pm SteveInCO

             Utterly ludicrous.

             The term “organelle”, referring to structures inside the cell, was coined in the 1880s. I’ve been unable (in ten whole minutes with Wikipedia) to find out when such structures were first observed but it was surely no later than that.

             And as I’ve mentioned before, _all_ of the “irreducibly complex” arguments have been refuted.

             Do some homework, or continue to provide evidence for the hypothesis that you are a moron willing to believe whatever creationist site-of-the-day you can find, chock full of ignorant (if not mendaciously made up) crap. Your pick.

             
             
280. on February 1, 2012 at 7:16 pm | Reply Rob

     “Imagine that a new archeological find were to reveal that the first-century apostles expressed doubt regarding the miracles and events proving that Jesus Christ was actually God in the flesh.”

     Well that would be interesting, even more interesting would be any archeological find at all, that showed any sign that there was a jesus or disciples. Or any find for the exodus when apparently moses and the jewish people fled from Egypt.

     But there has been none. Ever. So your ‘new’ find would actually be the first piece of evidence that jesus was a real person and not a fictional character.

     
     
     • on February 2, 2012 at 5:49 pm | Reply KL Green

       Correct.

       1. Zero evidence of millions wandering in the desert for 40 years (or even hundreds wandering for 40 weeks). God must have cleaned up after them. No. Nobody has found a bunch of Chariots and other things in the Red Sea. That’s fake archaeology.

       2. Zero evidence of a great flood covering the highest mountains of Earth. None. No. The ark has never been found. That’s fake archaeology.

       3. No evidence that a star stopped over Bethlehem. None. You would think the astronomers of that period would have noticed – but, no, not a peep. They actually list a few things that it “might have been” not a single one of those things would display the properties described in the NT. Doesn’t matter, though, because the the true believers don’t need an answer that actually explains the facts – they just need an answer that makes it look like they’ve considered all the answers.

       4. No evidence that the Earth just started 6,000 years ago. None. PLENTY of evidence it’s billions of years old.

       5. No evidence that anyone was swallowed by and lived for 3 days and 3 nights in the belly of a great whale (or fish). None.

       In ANY other circumstance, even most Christians would not fail to recognize these as myths. But because it’s THEIR religion, it gets a free pass to promulgate myth as fact. They go through all kinds of contortions of language and logic to justify accepting what they themselves would reject from other religions. On the good side, many Christians realize these stories are not literally true – but there are literalists who are convinced they must be.

       
       
281. on February 2, 2012 at 12:12 am | Reply Mel

     Hey Jess,

     I’m really sorry people are treating you this horribly. I think that you have every right to stand up for your constitutional rights. The judge was right.

     I am a Christian. I live my life based on my beliefs. You’re classmates/town people need a little lesson on what being a Christian means.

     My friend wrote this:
     “My purpose in life is to love.
     If you are a Christian, your main purpose is the same…
     My hope is that there are enough Christians who are truly putting God first with love as their focus to drown out those who are not…”

     Those who know God, and truly love Him are not against you. The people you know give God a really bad rep. The God I believe in is not like the Christians you know. I would argue that those people don’t even know Him. If Jesus came down, they’d be too stuck up to invite Him into their churches, I’m sure.

     Anyway girl, stay confident. The bible tells us that if we judge, God will judge us harder … you’re uh, sad excuse for Christian classmates** (yea, I said it) are in for a treat!

     I’d say I’m praying for you but you might not appreciate that :p so I’m thinking about you — MANY of my friends are thinking about you!! You’re great!

     
     
282. on February 2, 2012 at 10:35 am | Reply Jessica Musante

     “He that confeses me before man, I will also confess before my father in heaven, he that denies me before man, I will also deny before my father in heaven.”

     
     
283. on February 2, 2012 at 10:36 am | Reply Jessica Musante

     “He that confeses me before man, I will also confess before my father in heaven, he that denies me before man, I will also deny before my father in heaven.” Faith , Hope and Love.

     
     
284. on February 2, 2012 at 2:20 pm | Reply KL Green

     Jessica,
     You are so patient with the poltroonish, ignorant behavior of your detractors. Facts are not relevant to them; nor is correct reasoning. Most of them are both victims and exemplars of the Dunning-Kruger Effect.

     Poor reasoning from false “facts” does not disprove evolution. Poor reasoning from false “facts” does not invalidate Judge Lagueux’s decision, or overturn the first and fourteenth amendments.

     Religion all too often engenders and reinforces in people the desire to react immediately, vindictively, brainlessly, even violently, when confronted with views that seem threatening.

     Judge Lagueux addressed many of the concerns they have raised:

     From the decision of RONALD R. LAGUEUX, Senior United States District Judge:
     —–
     ‘First, the Supreme Court urges us to remember that “insistence upon neutrality, vital as it surely is for untrammeled religious liberty, may appear to border upon
     religious hostility. But in the long view the independence of both church and state in their respective spheres will be better served by close adherence to the neutrality principle.” Schempp, 374 U.S. at 246. 83 S.Ct. at 1584.’
     —–
     ‘What to most believers may seem nothing more than a reasonable request that the nonbeliever respect their religious practices, in a school context may appear to the nonbeliever or dissenter to be an attempt to employ the machinery of the State to enforce a religious orthodoxy.’
     —–

     
     
285. on February 2, 2012 at 2:29 pm | Reply KL Green

     Jessica,

     You appear sane, benevolent and intelligent. Your detractors come across differently.

     Nearly every sentence sputtered by your detractors – whether they pontificate on your case, on atheism, or on evolution – is permeated with stupidity and malice.

     Congratulations on your case! Good luck to you, girl!

     
     
286. on February 2, 2012 at 2:50 pm | Reply KL Green

     Jessica,

     “… HELP US TO BE GOOD SPORTS AND SMILE WHEN WE
     LOSE AS WELL AS WHEN WE WIN …”

     Apparently, the prayer did not work. It really *IS* just exclusionary tripe that the followers use to elevate themselves above their fellow men by bragging about and pretending to have virtues they do not have and do not respect.

     If one reads the entire prayer as well as the imbecilic invective hurled at you, the contrast between the behavior modeled in the prayer and that displayed by the troglodytes would be very funny – if they weren’t actually making threats. It’s almost like a scene out of some great tragic comedy.

     OUR HEAVENLY FATHER,
     GRANT US EACH DAY THE DESIRE TO DO OUR BEST,
     TO GROW MENTALLY AND MORALLY AS WELL AS
     PHYSICALLY, (hehe)

     TO BE KIND AND HELPFUL TO OUR CLASSMATES AND
     TEACHERS, (so long as they tow the line)

     TO BE HONEST WITH OURSELVES AS WELL AS WITH
     OTHERS, (honesty through willful ignorance!)

     HELP US TO BE GOOD SPORTS AND SMILE WHEN WE
     LOSE AS WELL AS WHEN WE WIN, (chortle!)

     TEACH US THE VALUE OF TRUE FRIENDSHIP, (by threatening and otherwise intimidating those who question our authority)

     HELP US ALWAYS TO CONDUCT OURSELVES SO AS TO
     BRING CREDIT TO CRANSTON HIGH SCHOOL WEST. (is that what they have done?)

     AMEN

     
     
287. on February 2, 2012 at 5:58 pm | Reply TMCD in TX

     Thx for doing the right thing Jessica.

     
     
288. on February 2, 2012 at 9:21 pm | Reply PiperB

     Jessica please do what you want but I do have a question and I truly want to understand. (Let me start by saying my Dad is an Atheist and has been since before I was born). If you don’t believe than why does it bother you so much that others do and hang prayers or whatever in your school? I don’t believe in Santa Claus but it doesn’t mean I get frustrated or angry at Christmastime and ask Macy*s to take down their pagan decorations. I happen to believe in Jesus and I am not ashamed. But that does not mean that I would ever request that a Buddha statue be removed from the shelf in my High School or that I would take offense to Jewish prayer being conducted around me. Of course this is just me and you are you – but I truly don’t understand. Do you not celebrate any fun holidays? Being a Christian I still celebrate Halloween even though some Christians don’t. BTW my Dad has been an Atheist since before I was born but he still let us receive all our Sacraments. The Baptists I know thing Catholics are in a cult and aren’t saved so it happens amongst us as well.

     
     
     • on February 2, 2012 at 11:16 pm | Reply Rob

       Cult (definition)
       1.
       a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
       2.
       an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers.
       3.
       the object of such devotion.
       4.
       a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal.
       5.
       a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.

       All religions are cults.

       
       
289. on February 2, 2012 at 9:22 pm | Reply PiperB

     Sorry for my spelling errors!!!!

     
     
     • on February 3, 2012 at 1:25 pm | Reply SteveInCO

       I cannot speak for Jessica, but here is my take, PiperB.

       The issue is not with a hung banner per se, but rather _where_ it is hung and by _whom_. We live in a society with millions of people who are free to profess whatever faith, or lack thereof, that they want. They can spend their own time and money putting forth whatever view they want, without regard for how crazy or wrong it might seem to others. But what they are not free to do is to ignore the government, and to not pay taxes for government. And if a government chooses to spend its resources proselytizing for someone else’s religion, then I am being forced to pay for it through my taxes. If I am in a public school I am a captive audience and the government is playing authority figure, pushing a religion on me that I disagree with, using my or my parents’ tax dollars.

       Thomas Jefferson once said that forcing people to pay for the propagation of beliefs they disagree with is “sinful and tyrannical” and he is right. Governments have no business pushing any religion or creed, either with tax dollars, or with other resources that ultimately were funded by tax dollars.

       Churches, synagogues and mosques, and for that matter freethought halls, can spend their own money and use their own property to put whatever kind of display they want–that’s freedom of conscience, which is what the first amendment (all of it, not just the parts about religion) is all about. But they not only should resit when government tries to push other religions, they should not try to use government to push their own views; either way that’s using other peoples’ resources against what they believe, and is a violation of other groups’ religious freedoms.

       The first amendment is not just about government staying out of your religion, it’s about religion not using government as a tool against those who disagree with that religion. It cuts both ways; it’s to keep government out of religion and religion out of government.

       
       
290. on February 4, 2012 at 12:16 pm | Reply xana

     Hello Jessica,
     Greetings from Spain.
     Just wanted to say that in the face of so much irrational criticism from your fellow country men and women you should remind them that one of the great advancements of the two modern republics arising at the end of the 18th century (France and the USA) is the separation of church and state so necessary for a true democracy to flurish.
     Cheers and keep up the good work,
     xana

     
     
291. on February 5, 2012 at 4:07 am | Reply Mike

     Jessica, what a brave thing you are doing. Yet how disheartening it is to see what courage has been required of you, simply for insisting on upholding the laws on which the foundation of our society is grounded. We are, to paraphrase Adams, a nation of laws, not of men. Taking down that banner should have been a foregone conclusion, in everyone’s mind. It should never have been up to begin with. But would it be flip to say here that I’m preaching to the choir?

     From a grown man who has not had the need to demonstrate your kind of courage in a good many years, thank you.

     The behavior of much of your community has been shamefully obscene. In this respect, agreement with your politics is really quite beside the point. Teenagers, many of them, say cruel and foolish things. But let me say as an educator that NO ADULT should EVER level such personal attacks as you have encountered against any child. This comment is really more for the benefit of those adults who have than for you. They ought to go home and reflect very deeply on where they have left their good sense and dignity.

     I hope I have not been too patronizing in noting that you are still very young. You have shown yourself to be articulate and intelligent, and have demonstrated tremendous strength of character.

     If those who have leveled such a vitriolic litany against you for defending the same Bill of Rights from which they draw their liberty to do so will not thank you for defending THEIR RIGHTS too, then I will thank you here again.

     I wish you all the best.

     
     
292. on February 5, 2012 at 3:40 pm | Reply Nancy

     Jessica,

     Kudos to you on your courage. Nobody should have to endure what you’re enduring for simply insisting that your school follow the Constitution.

     I’m a non-Christian who likes Jesus. If only the people in your town who are “defending the faith” would follow him!

     Stay strong. People around the world are standing with you.

     
     
293. on February 6, 2012 at 12:04 pm | Reply Matt Doyle

     As a Christian and a supporter of the Constitution, Jessica, I think you are doing absolutely the right thing. Your confidence and your bravery are absolutely inspiring. Keep believing in yourself and don’t let other people’s hateful negativity get to you.

     
     
     • on February 6, 2012 at 3:21 pm | Reply SteveInCO

       Thank YOU for understanding that this is an important issue for everyone, not just atheists and believing non-Chrstians. I don’t know if you’ve ever tried explaining things to those of your fellow Christians who do _not_ support the Constitution, but I suspect they’d pay more attention to you than they would to me; at least they’d be less likely to impute a satanic agenda on your part.

       
       
294. on February 6, 2012 at 3:55 pm | Reply Michael

     Have you ever considered the role faith plays in the lives of all of us?

     Up to 20 years ago, when DNA testing became possible, there was no way to know for certain that one’s father really was one’s father.

     One had to rely on the word of dad and of mom. Especially mom, since any claim of paternity relies on her testimony. Only she knows if dad was the true father of any particular offspring.

     So why did the world get along fine for 5980 years this way? Everyone had faith in his parents, in their truthfulness and candor. You could not ascertain this truth scientifically at all.

     Yet in a court of law it was sufficient basis for evidence demanding proof of paternity in lawsuits, inheritances etc.

     So you see the world has done fine with faith. Not everything can be “scientifically proven” in order to be accepted as conclusively true.

     And I think the same can be said about God.

     Denying God makes about as much sense as denying that dad is my father simply because I don’t want to take my parents’ word for it.

     Think about it…

     
     
     • on February 6, 2012 at 9:42 pm | Reply Rob

       Faith in god and faith in your parents/friends are different meanings. The reason religion still exists is because children have faith in their parents, they will believe nearly anything they say, even when they don’t know the right answer. All children are born atheists, and would remain so if parents didn’t enforce something that they themselves were told by their parents.
       The majority of people do not think god controls the wind, or the night and day etc anymore. Due to science and reason, the only place left for god is “how it all started?” and “what is it all for?”. For the people who see god as the controller or creator behind everything, its like seeing a figure of a person on a dark shadowy night. The mind will see a pattern, like a shadow in the shape of a person, and will make you believe that it is real.
       So faith in the normal sense is problematic, and even you own mind plays tricks on you by making you believe things that aren’t actually there. A combination of these leads to faith in a god, an all powerful invisible creature, which is not only misguided, but deluded.

       
       
       • on February 7, 2012 at 4:41 pm | Reply Michael

         Your arrogance is amazing.

         Someday God will put you on your knees and will humble you enough to recognize His majesty.

         Otherwise you will live imprisoned inside the very narrow confines of your own prideful mind and remain blind to the true wonders of the world.

         A few days ago I saw an amazing documentary about Fanny Crosby, a lady in the late 19th century who wrote over 10,000 Christian hymns. The amazing thing about her is that she was blind. Yet she describes in her hymns the beauty of God’s world:

         earnestlycontending * com/KT/bios/fannycrosby * html

         Ask yourself why a blind woman can see God’s hand while you, of normal sight, cannot.

         That is the puzzle you must wrestle with.

         I leave you to God’s loving hands.

         
         
         • on February 7, 2012 at 6:50 pm | Reply Rob

           Arrogance? So you didn’t read a word of what i said? Otherwise you would have responded to it, any of it. Could you please read it and tell me what part of it is not true.

           
           
           • on February 10, 2012 at 5:28 pm Michael

             Well first of all, if children ignore everything their parents believe, they would not live out one day beyond their birthdates. So to disregard everything your parents have taught you is foolishness and ingratitude of the highest magnitude.

             Second of all, children instinctively believe in God. They are very far from atheism which is why Jesus always likened the simplest and purest faith to that of a little child.

             Third, it is cynics like you who kill the innate God-recognition of little children. You in turn had your faith murdered by skeptical teachers who really are ignorant of the fullness of God’s wonderous mysteries. It is only an arrogant fool who believes that the puny amount of knowledge he has invalidates God. This is the prime deception of satan, who inflates a person’s ego so that he no longer wants to acknowledge his Creator.

             Fourth, God Himself took this risk when He permitted man to access reason and knowledge. God knew that man would be tempted to rebel and remove God as the creator the more knowledge he attained. But a truly wise person sees that the more he knows the more he remains ignorant of in an exponential progression. Ie, if your knowledge of the world doubles, your ignorance about it quadruples, and so on. The fool says the opposite: if my knowledge doubles, what remains to be learned diminishes. This makes him falsely believe that he soon will know all there is, ie, attain the mind of God, thus imagining that he one day will supplant God as a convenient myth.

             Fifth, consider this quote from Einstein about God [from rcg * org/books/effai *html]:

             One of the foremost scientists of the first half of the twentieth century—Albert Einstein—made this keen observation about the order, laws and forethought that God put into His creation. Einstein expressed the following (condensed and paraphrased here): He was fully confident of the existence of a superior intelligence that he perceived to be at work in the universe. He expressed belief in a God who revealed Himself in the orderly harmony of what existed. His perception of religion as a scientist took on a “rapturous amazement” at the harmony of natural laws, which revealed an intelligence of such superiority that all the collective systematic thinking of human beings was an utterly insignificant reflection (Out of My Later Years).

             Now, if Einstein, who was a genius, believed in God, this suggests that perhaps you are too ignorant to comprehend God. And that is true. We are all too ignorant to comprehend God. But we also know that many simple ignorant people also believe in God, so that cannot be the right explanation for your stubborn refusal to acknowledge Him. The only thing that remains is pride and arrogance, the original source of man’s downfall.

             Sixth, in your arrogance is exceeded only by your ignorance, owing to your ingratitude to your parents and refusal to admit that the totality of human comprehension of the world is puny. Which means that really you disdain Truth.

             Seventh, it is somewhat understandable that corruption of religious institutions has created widespread skepticism about God. But still that is no excuse. You can relate to God without any church structure. All you have to do is admit that the universe is stupendously awesome and ask its Creator to provide you with guidance on what He wants of you. More than anything He wants to relate to you and to love you, and His provision for that is His Son Jesus. And once you get past the lies of the evolutionists, that will become apparent to you.

             Eighth, if you are not prepared to make the move to Jesus, then so long as you believe in some higher Creator, that is better than believing in the absurdity and stupidity of Darwinist naturalism that matter created itself.

             Shabbat Shalom.

             
             
           • on February 10, 2012 at 8:01 pm Rob

             1. Yes, children do believe what their parents tell them for evolutionary (survival) reasons. But parents do not have all the answers to everything.
             2. Children at a certain age, once they notice a lot of things around them were made by intelligent beings (humans), apply this simple concept to the world. Most children grow out of it naturally, the children that don’t are told by people in authority (parents) that there really is a god when they don’t actually know the answer to that.
             3. God was never mentioned in my family, and I don’t remember ‘god-recognition’ when I was younger, I’m lucky I guess. I have the same amount of knowledge in relation to a gods existence as you and every other human has, which is none.
             4. Using that knowledge and reason that evolution has provided us with, and with all the evidence we (all humans) have available, the logical conclusion is that there is no god. A reasonable god would not present humans with absolutely no evidence for its existence, then expect us to worship it.
             5. Einstein did not believe in jesus, or a personal god, that is a god that wants to have a personal relationship with humans. And you are ignoring the 93% of scientists that don’t believe in god, including Stephen Hawking.
             6. My parents never mentioned god so I cant be ungrateful. And I understand that there is a lot about the universe that remains a mystery, that does not mean we arrogantly declare the ‘truth’, that god is that mystery. What we should do is get to work on scientific research to try and find the truth and discover that mystery, not say its some ancient mythological creature.
             7. How the **** do know there is a creator? Do you have magical powers that no one else on the planet has? You cannot possibly know that, you instead have faith that it is true. Having faith in god does not make it true, just like having faith in your parents does not make everything they say true.
             8. Believing in some higher creator without any evidence for its existence is better than accepting a well established scientific fact?
             Why don’t you, since you clearly know everything about evolution and why it is stupid, go and prove to the scientists that it is false? Show them the error of their ways!
             If you think it is stupid and absurd then why hasn’t anyone proven that it is false in the past 150 years? 150 years and not a single piece of evidence, that is all it takes, to prove it false.

             
             
295. on February 6, 2012 at 4:18 pm | Reply Michael

     DAMNED

     Darwinism
     Atheism
     Materialism
     Naturalism
     Erase
     Divinity

     ________________________________________

     GOD’S CHILD

     God
     Only
     Decrees
     Science

     Creationism
     Heralds
     Intelligent
     Loving
     Design

     
     
     • on February 6, 2012 at 6:52 pm | Reply Saturnyne

       FUNDAMENTALIST

       Fucking
       Uneducated
       Narcissistic
       Dangerous
       Asshole
       Misunderstands
       Evidence of
       Natural
       Transformation
       And
       Legal
       Information
       Such a
       Twat

       
       
       • on February 7, 2012 at 4:45 pm | Reply Michael

         using swear words is the biggest evidence of being uneducated.

         and i am not a fundamentalist.

         i attend a lutheran church and am of Jewish background.

         l left Jewish fundamentalism to embrace Jesus lover of my soul.

         Some day may you be blessed also to meet the Lover of your soul.

         
         
         • on February 7, 2012 at 6:53 pm | Reply Rob

           Mate, you are a fundamentalist. You said in your other post the earth is 6000 years old, that is fundamentally believing something when all the evidence points in the other direction.

           
           
         • on February 23, 2012 at 5:50 am | Reply Fail

           Damn(ed) is also recognized as a swear word…

           
           
296. on February 6, 2012 at 10:47 pm | Reply David

     Damn Christians, just make your case in court. Give some money to the city of Cranston so they have enough money to hire a lawyer if you’re so pissed off about it. Leave the child alone. She’s only freaking 16 years old. She’s too young to have sex, buy cigarettes, or even to be exposed to the “graphic” contents of Rated R movies, yet for some reason you think it’s ok to attack her.

     
     
297. on February 8, 2012 at 12:15 pm | Reply Wess

     You’re the best!

     
     
298. on February 8, 2012 at 4:12 pm | Reply Noah

     It’s funny how all the people criticizing Jessica can’t seem to spell anything right. I wonder what this means.

     
     
299. on February 8, 2012 at 4:13 pm | Reply Noah

     Jessica, you are super.

     
     
     • on February 8, 2012 at 10:53 pm | Reply SteveInCO

       No, she is a Bright. A Super is a religious person.

       http://the-brights.net/movement/synopsis.html

       OK, I agree, she’s super in the usual sense of the word.

       
       
300. on February 8, 2012 at 11:35 pm | Reply Caleb

     Hey jessica, i understand you are trying to stand up for what you believe, i’m glad you are able to have such a strong case and all. However I dont agree with this, with what you’re doing. I understand that the ammendment says what it says, however the banner itself is not hurting you nor affecting you. Freedom of and From religion. Nobody was forcing you to follow it. I’m not trying to be offensive, but this is kind of too much. You appear to be doing it for personal reason, otherwise, you wouldn’t do it. If it were physically or emotionally affecting someone in a bad way then i could understand, but it’s not doing that here. But also, this country was actually founded on christian beliefs… just throwing that out there. Our forefathers never sought to force it on anyone, but i don’t think this is what they had in mind when they wrote the first ammendment.

     I also noticed from this in your argument with tom, http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://jessicaahlquist.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/141.png&imgrefurl=http://jessicaahlquist.com/&h=606&w=436&sz=65&tbnid=kcT5lJ5O8w0EEM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=65&zoom=1&docid=K2fCM7ISP41lyM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=yEszT5LaJpDNtgfQ8sijAg&sqi=2&ved=0CFUQ9QEwBQ&dur=601

     Most if not all of Toms reasoning was ignorant and rude. But let me get to my point. You told him he could wear it on a t shirt and that you wouldn’t mind and that it would be legal. But if that isn’t affecting you and you can see it, then why are you bothering with this? I understand you want to defend the First amendment, but if you couldn’t care less if it’s on a t-shirt then why do you care if it’s in the school? If it’s in one place its bad, but in another in plain sight its okay. i understand tom may not go to your school. However what if someone did wear it to your school?

     I guess what I’m saying is, is your taking something offensively if its in one form, but not in another, which neither are forcing you to do anything. Again while i understand you’re doing it to defend the constitution, it doesn’t make any sense if one form of it doesn’t offend you. You might as well ban the entire thing if it bothers you. Again I mean no offense, I only mean to express my opinion on your reasoning.

     
     
     • on February 8, 2012 at 11:58 pm | Reply Caleb

       Sigh I take a piece of that back to avoid getting bit in the butt by this, according to article XI the us was not founded on christian beliefs, i misworded that. I understand that our forefathers believed in God. And they wanted all of americans to be equal. But, i still stand on my opinion that it wasn’t really affecting you in a negative way other than you didnt like it and that its “unconstitutional”

       
       
       • on February 9, 2012 at 12:07 am | Reply Caleb

         Nevermind, forget everything i said

         
         
         • on February 9, 2012 at 1:17 am | Reply Rob

           Well done Caleb for doing some research and thinking for yourself! A true credit to humans everywhere… However, small correction, not all the founding fathers believed in god.

           
           
         • on February 9, 2012 at 6:42 pm | Reply SteveInCO

           And just to hammer the point… the case of the banner hanging in school is qualitatively different from the case of it being on a T shirt; the first is the government endorsing religion, the second is you doing so.

           I know you have figured this out, Caleb; I am saying it for the benefit of others who might not have.

           
           
301. on February 8, 2012 at 11:52 pm | Reply Emily

     Jessica, I just want you to know that you are a huge inspiration to me. I am an agnostic atheist, but I haven’t come out about it publicly I hope that one day I will be as confident in myself as you are
     I just don’t understand how atheists can be hated so much? Especially by Christian’s who believe they are to love their neighbors as themselves? There is something fundamentally wrong with that…

     
     
302. on February 9, 2012 at 3:43 pm | Reply Kat

     Jessica,

     I think you are a hateful little girl. Do you really think the world revolves around you? And this banner should be removed because YOU don’t like it?

     Tough! Spoiled brat.

     
     
     • on February 9, 2012 at 4:52 pm | Reply Rob

       Tough, the banner has been removed.

       
       
       • on February 15, 2012 at 11:44 pm | Reply Kat

         Rob you are a true idiot.

         
         
         • on February 16, 2012 at 3:38 am | Reply SteveInCO

           YOU are the one who fails to understand the US constitution, and ROB is an idiot?

           Yeah, you are ready to be a Catholic, all right.

           
           
       • on February 16, 2012 at 1:43 am | Reply Rob

         Why thank you Kat. I normally specialist in ignorance, arrogance and stupidity, but thanks to you I feel like a complete person.

         
         
         • on February 16, 2012 at 1:45 am | Reply Rob

           *specialize, damn spell check

           
           
     • on February 9, 2012 at 6:43 pm | Reply SteveInCO

       More to the point: tough, the banner is illegal–against the law–even if Jessica is the only one to complain about it.

       
       
303. on February 9, 2012 at 4:37 pm | Reply danielkr

     I wonder if it isn’t a two way street. You say your rights are being violated because of this prayer being on the wall. But can’t you just choose not to appreciate it? Isn’t it possible that many more students benefit from seeing, if not having a long time memory of, this inpirational banner, than feel violated by seeing it?

     Does not any student that has maybe a bad home life, or had a bad day, or somehow is inspired by these words, mean much more than one person’s (or several person’s) perceived pain over having civil rights violated?

     I understand sometimes people fighting for their civil rights, but an inspirational banner isn’t slavery or racism or being forced to accept a religion that you don’t believe or being forced to abandon your own beliefs.

     First it is the banner, and down the road, it will be any outward indication other than a sign that a building is a church for specific religions.

     Some people, when faced with something they don’t agree with, but does not actually cause them hurt or prevent them from living their lives the way they want to, just move on and let people enjoy what they want to enjoy.

     
     
     • on February 9, 2012 at 5:05 pm | Reply Rob

       The banner is not inspirational, it shows the weak mindedness of religious people. That they cannot use the strength of their own mind to be courageous and motivated, but have to resort to an invisible ‘father’ for help.
       I see the pain, misery, suffering and oppression that religion brings to people. What sort of person would I be if I just let them ‘enjoy’ it?

       
       
     • on February 9, 2012 at 6:48 pm | Reply SteveInCO

       “but an inspirational banner isn’t slavery or racism or being forced to accept a religion that you don’t believe or being forced to abandon your own beliefs. ”

       It’s not being forced to accept a religion that is at issue here, it is being forced to pay for its support. Imagine how you’d feel if your tax money were used to put verses from the Koran on the walls. That is how we feel when a Christian prayer is put on the walls with tax money… and the implied endorsement of the government.

       “First it is the banner, and down the road, it will be any outward indication other than a sign that a building is a church for specific religions.”

       Baloney. The principle here is that _government_ may not endorse religion. Any other institution may do as it pleases. You personally can do whatever you want with your own private resources. So “down the road” you say, but the road you are complaining about ends a lot sooner than you think, it’s travelled when people stop trying to get the government to push their religion for them.

       
       
304. on February 9, 2012 at 6:22 pm | Reply danielkr

     It isn’t inspirational to you. I am not even claiming that it is inspirational. I am saying that I can see how it can be inspirational to some. It is only your opinion that it is not inspirational.

     Everyone is entitled to have an opinion, including those who enjoy their religion the same way you enjoy not having a religion.

     It isn’t a proven fact that religious people are weak minded. Nor is it a proven fact that non-religious people are weak minded. We are all individuals and members of communities that we choose for ourselves. The things you see in religious people may be the same things they see in you.

     All anyone that is religious has to do is ignore the products of atheism, and atheists do the same to products of religion, that way we can all have the freedoms we have a right to.

     
     
     • on February 9, 2012 at 7:47 pm | Reply Rob

       Read what SteveInCO said as to why it is illegal.

       They are weak minded in regards to not having a strength of will without using an imaginary external force. And they are easily swayed by other people, like religious figures (including biased tv programs/news), family and friends of the same faith.

       
       
305. on February 10, 2012 at 1:11 pm | Reply danielkr

     It’s already paid for.

     
     
     • on February 10, 2012 at 9:02 pm | Reply SteveInCO

       The other problem is, hanging where it is, it’s an implied endorsement of Christianity (even if a generic non-sectarian type) by the government.

       Maybe you think I shouldn’t have a problem with this, because I just noticed this statement of yours from a couple of days ago: “All anyone that is religious has to do is ignore the products of atheism, and atheists do the same to products of religion, that way we can all have the freedoms we have a right to.” OK, let’s hang a big Darwin banner up in the place where the banner was. Or one that says “There is no god.”

       Would you be willing to ignore it? If YOU happen to be, do you deny that there would be a hue and cry from others?

       Turnabout is fair play… If I am to ignore your stuff when the government displays it, then the government should display mine and you should be expected to ignore it.

       Clearly the _least_ contentious route is for the government to endorse none (zip, nada) of the possible stands on religious issues.

       
       
306. on February 11, 2012 at 9:23 pm | Reply The_Armadillo

     I just want to make it clear to everybody that the fact that this banner was up in the first place is against the law. It always has been. It isn’t a violation of your rights, it’s an issue of church and state. It’s obviously a religious prayer, and it was posted on the middle of the auditorium. The fact that you have a majority, or the fact that it’s a really old banner doesn’t change the fact that the banner itself is unconstitutional. The most ironic part of this is that rhode island is a state founded on the premise of freedom to, or from religion. Regardless of how angry you are about it, Jessica did the right thing. She pointed out that you have been breaking the law for what, sixty years? I actually heard a very interesting metaphor about this situation that compared the loss of this banner with Christians getting their cookie taken away. My dear, insane, friends, today you have lost thy cookie.

     
     
307. on February 13, 2012 at 10:30 am | Reply Michael

     I’M REPLYING LIKE THIS BECAUSE THE THREAD ABOVE RAN OUT OF REPLY BUTTONS! FORGIVE THE CAPS. I’M NOT SHOUTHING!

     Rob wrote:
     1. Yes, children do believe what their parents tell them for evolutionary (survival) reasons. But parents do not have all the answers to everything.
     THEY DON’T. BUT ONCE THEY HAVE START HAVING CHILDREN THEY SEE THERE IS MORE TO LIFE THAN BIOLOGY. AND THEY NATURALLY BELIEVE GOD IS BEHIND IT.

     YOUR PRIDE AND ARROGANCE ARE EXCEEDED ONLY BY YOUR IGNORANCE.

     2. Children at a certain age, once they notice a lot of things around them were made by intelligent beings (humans), apply this simple concept to the world. Most children grow out of it naturally, the children that don’t are told by people in authority (parents) that there really is a god when they don’t actually know the answer to that.
     SO YOU SAY CHILDREN BELIEVE THAT HUMANS CREATED THE WORLD, THE UNIVERSE AND LIFE?

     YOUR PRIDE AND ARROGANCE ARE EXCEEDED ONLY BY YOUR IGNORANCE.

     3. God was never mentioned in my family, and I don’t remember ‘god-recognition’ when I was younger, I’m lucky I guess. I have the same amount of knowledge in relation to a gods existence as you and every other human has, which is none.
     WELL, YOUR PARENTS ARE TO BLAME FOR YOUR CURRENT STATE OF IGNORANCE. AND THE BIBLE SAYS THAT THE APPLE DOESN’T FALL FAR FROM THE TREE, FOR WHICH YOU ARE LIVING PROOF! BUT NOW THAT YOU ARE A SMART ALECK, YOUR PARENTS’ NEGLECT OF THEIR RESPONSIBILITIES TO EDUCATE YOU ABOUT GOD IS NO EXCUSE FOR YOUR OWN STUBBORNESS AND BLINDNESS. YOU’RE ON YOUR OWN MATE, AND THE LORD OF THE UNIVERSE WILL GET YOUR ATTENTION. YOU CAN’T HIDE BEHIND MOMMY’S SKIRTS FOREVER!

     YOUR PRIDE AND ARROGANCE ARE EXCEEDED ONLY BY YOUR IGNORANCE.

     4. Using that knowledge and reason that evolution has provided us with, and with all the evidence we (all humans) have available, the logical conclusion is that there is no god. A reasonable god would not present humans with absolutely no evidence for its existence, then expect us to worship it. YOU’RE RIGHT THAT THERE IS NO god. THERE IS ONLY THE GOD.

     YOUR PRIDE AND ARROGANCE ARE EXCEEDED ONLY BY YOUR IGNORANCE.

     5. Einstein did not believe in jesus, or a personal god, that is a god that wants to have a personal relationship with humans. And you are ignoring the 93% of scientists that don’t believe in god, including Stephen Hawking. EINSTEIN DID BELIEVE IN A PERSONAL GOD. IT WAS THE GOD WHO INFORMED HIS OWN AMAZING CREATIVITY.

     YOUR PRIDE AND ARROGANCE ARE EXCEEDED ONLY BY YOUR IGNORANCE.

     6. My parents never mentioned god so I cant be ungrateful. And I understand that there is a lot about the universe that remains a mystery, that does not mean we arrogantly declare the ‘truth’, that god is that mystery. What we should do is get to work on scientific research to try and find the truth and discover that mystery, not say its some ancient mythological creature.
     AS I WROTE ABOVE, YOU CAN’T HIDE BEHIND MOMMY’S SKIRTS FOREVER!

     AND AS I WROTE TO YOU BEFORE, A WISE PERSON RECOGNIZES THAT THE MORE S/HE LEARNS THE MORE S/HE BECOMES IGNORANT OF, IN AN EXPONENTIAL SEQUENCE. (IE, IF YOUR KNOWLEDGE DOUBLES, YOUR IGNORANCE QUADRUPLES.) SINCE WE ARE MORTAL, WE ARE FACED WITH THE HOPELESS TASK OF LEAVING THIS WORLD MORE IGNORANT THAN WE ENTERED IT! GOD IS THE ONLY LOGICAL ANSWER TO THIS TRAP.

     YOUR PRIDE AND ARROGANCE ARE EXCEEDED ONLY BY YOUR IGNORANCE.

     7. How the **** do know there is a creator? Do you have magical powers that no one else on the planet has? You cannot possibly know that, you instead have faith that it is true. Having faith in god does not make it true, just like having faith in your parents does not make everything they say true.
     LIKE I SAID, FAITH IS THE COURAGE TO BELIEVE WITH YOUR MIND WHAT YOUR HEART KNOWS IS TRUE.

     YOUR PRIDE AND ARROGANCE ARE EXCEEDED ONLY BY YOUR IGNORANCE.

     8. Believing in some higher creator without any evidence for its existence is better than accepting a well established scientific fact?
     Why don’t you, since you clearly know everything about evolution and why it is stupid, go and prove to the scientists that it is false? Show them the error of their ways!
     If you think it is stupid and absurd then why hasn’t anyone proven that it is false in the past 150 years? 150 years and not a single piece of evidence, that is all it takes, to prove it false.
     THE GREATEST SCIENTISTS ALWAYS BELIEVED IN GOD: EINSTEIN, DECARTES, LEIBNITZ, COPERNICUS, GALILEO, PASCAL, ETC ETC. TODAY’S SCIENTISTS KNOW LOTS OF DEPTH BUT ALMOST NO BREADTH. THEY ALSO ARE NOT TRAINED IN PHILOSOPHY AND LOGIC. YOU CAN SAFELY IGNORE THEIR POMPOUS PRATTLE ABOUT A GOD WHOM THEY ARE TOO PROUD AND IGNORANT TO RECOGNIZE.

     I’M REPLYING LIKE THIS BECAUSE THE THREAD ABOVE RAN OUT OF REPLY BUTTONS! FORGIVE THE CAPS. I’M NOT SHOUTHING!

     Rob wrote:
     1. Yes, children do believe what their parents tell them for evolutionary (survival) reasons. But parents do not have all the answers to everything.
     THEY DON’T. BUT ONCE THEY HAVE START HAVING CHILDREN THEY SEE THERE IS MORE TO LIFE THAN BIOLOGY. AND THEY NATURALLY BELIEVE GOD IS BEHIND IT.

     YOUR PRIDE AND ARROGANCE ARE EXCEEDED ONLY BY YOUR IGNORANCE.

     2. Children at a certain age, once they notice a lot of things around them were made by intelligent beings (humans), apply this simple concept to the world. Most children grow out of it naturally, the children that don’t are told by people in authority (parents) that there really is a god when they don’t actually know the answer to that.
     SO YOU SAY CHILDREN BELIEVE THAT HUMANS CREATED THE WORLD, THE UNIVERSE AND LIFE?

     YOUR PRIDE AND ARROGANCE ARE EXCEEDED ONLY BY YOUR IGNORANCE.

     3. God was never mentioned in my family, and I don’t remember ‘god-recognition’ when I was younger, I’m lucky I guess. I have the same amount of knowledge in relation to a gods existence as you and every other human has, which is none.
     WELL, YOUR PARENTS ARE TO BLAME FOR YOUR CURRENT STATE OF IGNORANCE. AND THE BIBLE SAYS THAT THE APPLE DOESN’T FALL FAR FROM THE TREE, FOR WHICH YOU ARE LIVING PROOF! BUT NOW THAT YOU ARE A SMART ALECK, YOUR PARENTS’ NEGLECT OF THEIR RESPONSIBILITIES TO EDUCATE YOU ABOUT GOD IS NO EXCUSE FOR YOUR OWN STUBBORNESS AND BLINDNESS. YOU’RE ON YOUR OWN MATE, AND THE LORD OF THE UNIVERSE WILL GET YOUR ATTENTION. YOU CAN’T HIDE BEHIND MOMMY’S SKIRTS FOREVER!

     YOUR PRIDE AND ARROGANCE ARE EXCEEDED ONLY BY YOUR IGNORANCE.

     4. Using that knowledge and reason that evolution has provided us with, and with all the evidence we (all humans) have available, the logical conclusion is that there is no god. A reasonable god would not present humans with absolutely no evidence for its existence, then expect us to worship it. YOU’RE RIGHT THAT THERE IS NO god. THERE IS ONLY THE GOD.

     YOUR PRIDE AND ARROGANCE ARE EXCEEDED ONLY BY YOUR IGNORANCE.

     5. Einstein did not believe in jesus, or a personal god, that is a god that wants to have a personal relationship with humans. And you are ignoring the 93% of scientists that don’t believe in god, including Stephen Hawking. EINSTEIN DID BELIEVE IN A PERSONAL GOD. IT WAS THE GOD WHO INFORMED HIS OWN AMAZING CREATIVITY.

     YOUR PRIDE AND ARROGANCE ARE EXCEEDED ONLY BY YOUR IGNORANCE.

     6. My parents never mentioned god so I cant be ungrateful. And I understand that there is a lot about the universe that remains a mystery, that does not mean we arrogantly declare the ‘truth’, that god is that mystery. What we should do is get to work on scientific research to try and find the truth and discover that mystery, not say its some ancient mythological creature.
     AS I WROTE ABOVE, YOU CAN’T HIDE BEHIND MOMMY’S SKIRTS FOREVER!

     AND AS I WROTE TO YOU BEFORE, A WISE PERSON RECOGNIZES THAT THE MORE S/HE LEARNS THE MORE S/HE BECOMES IGNORANT OF, IN AN EXPONENTIAL SEQUENCE. (IE, IF YOUR KNOWLEDGE DOUBLES, YOUR IGNORANCE QUADRUPLES.) SINCE WE ARE MORTAL, WE ARE FACED WITH THE HOPELESS TASK OF LEAVING THIS WORLD MORE IGNORANT THAN WE ENTERED IT! GOD IS THE ONLY LOGICAL ANSWER TO THIS TRAP.

     YOUR PRIDE AND ARROGANCE ARE EXCEEDED ONLY BY YOUR IGNORANCE.

     7. How the **** do know there is a creator? Do you have magical powers that no one else on the planet has? You cannot possibly know that, you instead have faith that it is true. Having faith in god does not make it true, just like having faith in your parents does not make everything they say true.

     YOUR PRIDE AND ARROGANCE ARE EXCEEDED ONLY BY YOUR IGNORANCE.

     8. Believing in some higher creator without any evidence for its existence is better than accepting a well established scientific fact?
     Why don’t you, since you clearly know everything about evolution and why it is stupid, go and prove to the scientists that it is false? Show them the error of their ways!
     If you think it is stupid and absurd then why hasn’t anyone proven that it is false in the past 150 years? 150 years and not a single piece of evidence, that is all it takes, to prove it false.

     YOUR PRIDE AND ARROGANCE ARE EXCEEDED ONLY BY YOUR IGNORANCE.

     I AM PRAYING FOR YOU TO HAVE THE COURAGE TO DEFY YOUR MOMMY AND DADDY AND FRIENDS AND DO WHAT IS TRUE, RIGHT, HONEST, AND BEAUTIFUL. ACKNOWLEDGE THE CREATOR WHO LOVES YOU AND WHO WANTS TO GIVE YOU THE BEST POSSIBLE LIFE. AMEN!

     IF YOU WANT TO WRITE TO ME; MEVASHIR620 at YAHOO.COM

     SHALOM CHAVER – PEACE FRIEND

     
     
308. on February 13, 2012 at 10:38 am | Reply Michael

     To Moderator,

     The previous post came out with extra text. Please substitute this one! Thanks and God bless you (err, ungod unbless you – lol)

     ROB – I’M REPLYING LIKE THIS BECAUSE THE THREAD ABOVE RAN OUT OF REPLY BUTTONS! FORGIVE THE CAPS. I’M NOT SHOUTHING!

     Rob wrote:
     1. Yes, children do believe what their parents tell them for evolutionary (survival) reasons. But parents do not have all the answers to everything.
     THEY DON’T. BUT ONCE THEY HAVE START HAVING CHILDREN THEY SEE THERE IS MORE TO LIFE THAN BIOLOGY. AND THEY NATURALLY BELIEVE GOD IS BEHIND IT.

     YOUR PRIDE AND ARROGANCE ARE EXCEEDED ONLY BY YOUR IGNORANCE.

     2. Children at a certain age, once they notice a lot of things around them were made by intelligent beings (humans), apply this simple concept to the world. Most children grow out of it naturally, the children that don’t are told by people in authority (parents) that there really is a god when they don’t actually know the answer to that.
     SO YOU SAY CHILDREN BELIEVE THAT HUMANS CREATED THE WORLD, THE UNIVERSE AND LIFE?

     YOUR PRIDE AND ARROGANCE ARE EXCEEDED ONLY BY YOUR IGNORANCE.

     3. God was never mentioned in my family, and I don’t remember ‘god-recognition’ when I was younger, I’m lucky I guess. I have the same amount of knowledge in relation to a gods existence as you and every other human has, which is none.
     WELL, YOUR PARENTS ARE TO BLAME FOR YOUR CURRENT STATE OF IGNORANCE. AND THE BIBLE SAYS THAT THE APPLE DOESN’T FALL FAR FROM THE TREE, FOR WHICH YOU ARE LIVING PROOF! BUT NOW THAT YOU ARE A SMART ALECK, YOUR PARENTS’ NEGLECT OF THEIR RESPONSIBILITIES TO EDUCATE YOU ABOUT GOD IS NO EXCUSE FOR YOUR OWN STUBBORNESS AND BLINDNESS. YOU’RE ON YOUR OWN MATE, AND THE LORD OF THE UNIVERSE WILL GET YOUR ATTENTION. YOU CAN’T HIDE BEHIND MOMMY’S SKIRTS FOREVER!

     YOUR PRIDE AND ARROGANCE ARE EXCEEDED ONLY BY YOUR IGNORANCE.

     4. Using that knowledge and reason that evolution has provided us with, and with all the evidence we (all humans) have available, the logical conclusion is that there is no god. A reasonable god would not present humans with absolutely no evidence for its existence, then expect us to worship it. YOU’RE RIGHT THAT THERE IS NO god. THERE IS ONLY THE GOD.

     YOUR PRIDE AND ARROGANCE ARE EXCEEDED ONLY BY YOUR IGNORANCE.

     5. Einstein did not believe in jesus, or a personal god, that is a god that wants to have a personal relationship with humans. And you are ignoring the 93% of scientists that don’t believe in god, including Stephen Hawking. EINSTEIN DID BELIEVE IN A PERSONAL GOD. IT WAS THE GOD WHO INFORMED HIS OWN AMAZING CREATIVITY. AND LIKE HIM THE GREATEST SCIENTISTS ALWAYS BELIEVED IN GOD: NEWTON, DECARTES, LEIBNITZ, COPERNICUS, GALILEO, PASCAL, ETC ETC. TODAY’S SCIENTISTS KNOW LOTS OF DEPTH BUT ALMOST NO BREADTH. THEY ALSO ARE NOT TRAINED IN THEOLOGY, PHILOSOPHY AND LOGIC. YOU CAN SAFELY IGNORE THEIR POMPOUS PRATTLE ABOUT A GOD WHOM THEY ARE TOO PROUD AND IGNORANT TO RECOGNIZE.

     YOUR PRIDE AND ARROGANCE ARE EXCEEDED ONLY BY YOUR IGNORANCE.

     6. My parents never mentioned god so I cant be ungrateful. And I understand that there is a lot about the universe that remains a mystery, that does not mean we arrogantly declare the ‘truth’, that god is that mystery. What we should do is get to work on scientific research to try and find the truth and discover that mystery, not say its some ancient mythological creature.
     AS I WROTE ABOVE, YOU CAN’T HIDE BEHIND MOMMY’S SKIRTS FOREVER!

     AND AS I WROTE TO YOU BEFORE, A WISE PERSON RECOGNIZES THAT THE MORE S/HE LEARNS THE MORE S/HE BECOMES IGNORANT, IN AN EXPONENTIAL SEQUENCE. (IE, IF YOUR KNOWLEDGE DOUBLES, YOUR IGNORANCE ABOUT ALL OTHER THINGS QUADRUPLES.) SINCE WE ARE MORTAL, WE ARE FACED WITH THE HOPELESS TASK OF LEAVING THIS WORLD MORE IGNORANT THAN WE ENTERED IT! GOD IS THE ONLY LOGICAL ANSWER TO THIS TRAP.

     YOUR PRIDE AND ARROGANCE ARE EXCEEDED ONLY BY YOUR IGNORANCE.

     7. How the **** do know there is a creator? Do you have magical powers that no one else on the planet has? You cannot possibly know that, you instead have faith that it is true. Having faith in god does not make it true, just like having faith in your parents does not make everything they say true.
     LIKE I SAID, FAITH IS THE COURAGE TO BELIEVE WITH YOUR MIND WHAT YOUR HEART KNOWS IS TRUE.

     YOUR PRIDE AND ARROGANCE ARE EXCEEDED ONLY BY YOUR IGNORANCE.

     8. Believing in some higher creator without any evidence for its existence is better than accepting a well established scientific fact?
     Why don’t you, since you clearly know everything about evolution and why it is stupid, go and prove to the scientists that it is false? Show them the error of their ways!
     If you think it is stupid and absurd then why hasn’t anyone proven that it is false in the past 150 years? 150 years and not a single piece of evidence, that is all it takes, to prove it false.
     THERE IS AMPLE PROOF FOR THE INVALIDITY AND INADEQUACY OF EVOLUTION AS A THEORY. WRITE TO ME AT THE ADDRESS BELOW AND I WILL BE HAPPY TO SEND YOU LINKS.

     I AM PRAYING FOR YOU TO HAVE THE COURAGE TO DEFY YOUR MOMMY AND DADDY AND FRIENDS AND DO WHAT IS TRUE, RIGHT, HONEST, AND BEAUTIFUL. ACKNOWLEDGE THE CREATOR WHO LOVES YOU AND WHO WANTS TO GIVE YOU THE BEST POSSIBLE LIFE. AMEN!

     I PRAY THAT YOUR PRIDE ARROGANCE & IGNORANCE WILL BE OBLITERATED BY TRUE GODLY KNOWLEDGE THAT EMANATES FROM GOD’S INTENSE LOVE FOR YOU. AND THAT ONE DAY YOU CAN TEACH YOUR PARENTS WHAT THEY FAILED TO TEACH TO YOU!

     IF YOU WANT TO WRITE TO ME; MEVASHIR620 at YAHOO.COM

     SHALOM CHAVER – PEACE FRIEND

     
     
     • on February 13, 2012 at 9:56 pm | Reply Rob

       “It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly.”
       “I believe in Spinoza’s God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings.”
       Two quotes from Einstein. I guess your arrogance and ignorance exceeds mine.

       “FAITH IS THE COURAGE TO BELIEVE WITH YOUR MIND WHAT YOUR HEART KNOWS IS TRUE”
       Your heart cannot know anything, it is an organ which pumps blood around your body and is controlled by the brain.

       “THERE IS AMPLE PROOF FOR THE INVALIDITY AND INADEQUACY OF EVOLUTION”
       All it takes is one piece of evidence to prove it false, please give me your best one.

       Also, tell me how many humans total did god create before sexual reproduction produced the rest of us (assuming you believe in the story of adam and eve)?

       
       
       • on February 14, 2012 at 5:52 am | Reply SteveInCO

         Maybe this is a different Michael from before but I believe he’s already given us his best shot, back on January 30-February 1–referring to a site clearly written by a scientific illiterate who does not even understand what the theory of evolution _says_.

         (I can argue against things all day if I am allowed to misstate what it is those things say! If evolution is wrong, you’d think the critics could at least accurately identify what it is saying, that is wrong!)

         So that line of attack having failed, he’s gone after us for “arrogance” for not using emotion as a tool of cognition–interspersing it with the usual BS that is poorly researched (like false statements about Einstein’s religious views). I’ve noticed a pattern over the last few years. Some dirtbag apologist will make up some lie, then pastors, religious right political pundits, etc., will repeat it and next thing you know a bunch of Christians, trusting their pastors, will treat that lie as established fact and you can’t convince them otherwise. But then… they are using emotion–they want it to be so, really, really, want it–as a tool of cognition.

         Returning to the current case of Michael: It seems to me, though, speaking of arrogance, that as much as Michael wants to accuse us of arrogance, it’s far more arrogant for him to presume to pronounce on a question of fact (the existence of an all powerful, all knowing, all-benevolent god that happens to have the moniker “Yahweh”–you’d think he’d pick something a little more intimidating sounding like “Thor”) for which no scientist has found evidence, and which philosophers have shown to be self-contradictory and therefore metaphysically impossible (the only way to actually prove a negative), and furthermore to claim to know what that (nonexistent) deity wants from us and will do to us during an (also unevidenced) afterlife. Yes, all of this, not a SHRED of evidence for it, and Michael claims it’s absolutely, no possible doubt true. THAT is arrogance.

         (PS to Michael: the rantings of bronze and iron age mystics does not constitute evidence.)

         
         
         • on February 15, 2012 at 1:14 pm | Reply Michael

           SteveInCO writes that “no scientist has found evidence [of God]“?

           What about these links that show just the opposite?

           godandscience * org/apologetics/sciencefaith * html

           livescience * com/379-scientists-belief-god-varies-starkly-discipline * html

           And these links to scientists who dispute evolution:
           ridgenet * net/~do_while/sage/v5i10f * htm
           dissentfromdarwin * org/

           
           
       • on February 14, 2012 at 10:52 am | Reply Rob

         I don’t think he fully understands exactly what he is postulating. Many creationists argue that the complexity of the universe, and eventually the extreme complexity of life could not arise due to natural means. Science has shown how complexity grows from simplicity and requires the laws of physics, chemistry and biology combined with an immense amount of time.

         By postulating a god, you are declaring that something infinitely more complex then anything we know, was there in the beginning. For 3 billion years on this planet, there was no life more complex than bacteria. For 400 million years after the big bang, there were no stars and only a few chemicals. The knowledge that humans have discovered, clearly demonstrates that complexity comes later in the universe.

         To declare that there is a god, knowing that 99.99% of all life on this planet has gone extinct, is like saying that humans were the first life forms on this planet. Or that the internet came before electricity.

         
         
         • on February 14, 2012 at 4:21 pm | Reply Michael

           “To declare that there is a god, knowing that 99.99% of all life on this planet has gone extinct, is like saying that humans were the first life forms on this planet. Or that the internet came before electricity.”

           Rob – this is itself a great proof that invalidates evolution. Extinction is a sign of genetic deterioration and degeneration. No creationist denies extinction, since it proves that the genome and biological survivability are decaying rapidly in a process that completely contradicts “evolution”.

           
           
           • on February 14, 2012 at 7:04 pm SteveInCO

             Again your ignorance is on display. Extinctions mean either that the environment changed more rapidly than the species could adapt (anything from a change to the local climate, to an asteroid strike), or that some individuals in it DID adapt and became a new species–and the old one is no longer with us. It has nothing to do with “genetic deterioration and degeneration,” things go extinct even if their genetics _don’t_ change.

             Michael, would you PLEASE go learn something real about what the theory of evolution ACTUALLY IS before coming in here again and making even more of a fool of yourself?

             
             
           • on February 14, 2012 at 7:43 pm Rob

             Why do you respond to the least relevant part of my comment? Can you acknowledge that postulating a god is the same as saying facebook came before creatures were able to communicate with each other?

             ‘Extinction is a sign of genetic deterioration and degeneration, the genome and biological survivability are decaying rapidly’
             What on earth are you talking about?!

             
             
         • on February 15, 2012 at 1:19 pm | Reply Michael

           “By postulating a god, you are declaring that something infinitely more complex then anything we know, was there in the beginning. For 3 billion years on this planet, there was no life more complex than bacteria. For 400 million years after the big bang, there were no stars and only a few chemicals. The knowledge that humans have discovered, clearly demonstrates that complexity comes later in the universe.”

           That’s exactly right! We believe “something infinitely more complex then anything we know, was there in the beginning” to create our mind bogglingly complex universe.

           I could not have stated it better.

           As for extinction, I don’t see how this proves evolution. Extinction merely shows the die off of most life forms. This is the opposite of evolution, no? We have species going extinct right now, and no one claims they have evolved into other species prior to their deaths.

           And extinction could be simply a confirmation of the Flood that all cultures have traditions of:
           nwcreation * net/noahlegends * html

           See also Earth in Upheaval by Immanuel Velikovsky.

           This is one site that agrees with you that Extinctions are proof of evolution:
           proof-of-evolution * com/extinct-animals * html

           
           
           • on February 15, 2012 at 1:23 pm Michael

             See also this site:

             icr * org/home/resources/resources_tracts_scientificcaseagainstevolution/

             Some choice quotes:

             (1) Creationists would obviously predict ubiquitous gaps between created kinds, though with many varieties capable of arising within each kind, in order to enable each basic kind to cope with changing environments without becoming extinct. Creationists also would anticipate that any “vertical changes” in organized complexity would be downward, since the Creator (by definition) would create things correctly to begin with. Thus, arguments and evidences against evolution are, at the same time, positive evidences for creation.

             (2) A good question to ask is: Why are all observable evolutionary changes either horizontal and trivial (so-called microevolution) or downward toward deterioration and extinction? The answer seems to be found in the universally applicable laws of the science of thermodynamics.

             (3) They must believe in evolution, therefore, in spite of all the evidence, not because of it. And speaking of deceptions, note the following remarkable statement.

             We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, . . . in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated commitment to materialism. . . . we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counterintuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door.27

             The author of this frank statement is Richard Lewontin of Harvard. Since evolution is not a laboratory science, there is no way to test its validity, so all sorts of justso stories are contrived to adorn the textbooks. But that doesn’t make them true! An evolutionist reviewing a recent book by another (but more critical) evolutionist, says:

             We cannot identify ancestors or “missing links,” and we cannot devise testable theories to explain how particular episodes of evolution came about. Gee is adamant that all the popular stories about how the first amphibians conquered the dry land, how the birds developed wings and feathers for flying, how the dinosaurs went extinct, and how humans evolved from apes are just products of our imagination, driven by prejudices and preconceptions.28

             
             
           • on February 15, 2012 at 1:26 pm Michael

             SteveInCO writes that “no scientist has found evidence [of God]“?

             What about these links that show just the opposite?

             godandscience * org/apologetics/sciencefaith * html

             livescience * com/379-scientists-belief-god-varies-starkly-discipline * html

             And these links to scientists who dispute evolution:
             ridgenet * net/~do_while/sage/v5i10f * htm
             dissentfromdarwin * org/

             
             
       • on February 14, 2012 at 4:16 pm | Reply Michael

         OK, you got me on Einstein. But his position on God is far advanced of the atheistic Darwinists. I hope you can see that. And Einstein suffered from not knowing a personal God, since at the end of his life he was frequently seen scrounging in the gutters for cigarette butts and he was consumed with guilt about his role in the nuclear bombings of Japan. So Jesus could have helped him.

         The heart knowing is an expression for knowing something intuitively. As they say today about knowing in your gut. And often it takes guts to affirm with your mind and subsequent actions what you know in your gut to be true.

         The best piece of evidence that invalidates evolution in my opinion as a learned layman on the matter is that mutations cause a loss of genetic information and never an increase. They almost always are lethal and not beneficial. There is no way that random mutations can drive a progression of life up the biological ladder from simplicity to complexity.

         And God created two sexually functional humans who fathered the human species.

         To expand a bit on the difference between today’s scientists and people like Newton, if you read a biography of Newton you will see that he was learned in many fields. In fact he wrote more about the Bible (knowing both both Hebrew and Greek) than he did about physics! People like Newton were true Renaissance Men, masters of many fields with an integrated and mature world view. Today’s scientists are more like Cave Men, cowering from God’s awesome light inside deep and narrow shafts of highly specialized knowledge. They really have no right to speak of God and you have no obligation to listen to their cynical depracations of Him.

         After reading about Isaac Newton’s richly diverse talents and interests, you will recognize more clearly the impoverished soul of most of today’s scientists, who for economic reasons are increasingly confined to narrow cubbyholes of obscure knowledge.

         I pray for you, Rob, and for Jessica and all her friends and supporters whose faith in God has been eviscerated by a cadre of cynical unimaginative old men.

         And I apologize for calling you arrogant and ignorant. Insolent would be better, but I know it is your soul crying out in pain over what it has been robbed of by the money grubbing denizens of America’s scientific elite.

         
         
         • on February 14, 2012 at 8:19 pm | Reply Rob

           Of course most random mutations are not beneficial, it has already been developed for survival by natural selection. Random mutations alone cannot drive progression, that is where natural selection comes in to weed out genes that are not fit for survival.

           Jesus is a fictional character, he can no more help anyone than Goldilocks or an imaginary friend. Studies have shown that the parts of the brain that are active when thinking about god are the same as an imaginary friend.

           How many times have you trusted your intuition and been wrong? Intuition does not automatically make it true, and that is exactly what you are arguing. Intuition is something created by the brain, and we know that the mind can play tricks on us or simply be wrong. Intuition is the least trustworthy thing to base ridiculous beliefs on.

           Do you think that all humans are a result of inbreeding between adam, eve and their children? You believe all of these fairy tales without any evidence for it, just your intuition?

           
           
         • on March 1, 2012 at 7:49 pm | Reply Wilby Inebriated

           @michael… there is a reason newton is known for his ‘laws of motion’ and not his ‘laws of the efficacy of prayer’…

           neither newton nor any other scientist has ever presented a single shred of material evidence or a logical proof for the existence of the god of abraham, or any other godfairy for that matter.

           
           
309. on February 14, 2012 at 7:33 am | Reply HC

     There’s a new ‘call to arms’ if we are to defend the First Amendment and the ‘Separation of Church and State’. I hope you are all serious about you support of these crucial concepts and speak up. I especially hope Jessica will speak up as she has a public voice right now.

     For more information… http://wp.me/2dtBq

     
     
     • on February 14, 2012 at 1:52 pm | Reply SteveInCO

       Curious that your website is hosted in Montenegro (that’s what .me in the domain means).

       This is interesting. Instead of religion interfering in government, this is government interfering with religion. I agree both are wrong. However, let me point out the _real_ issue here, and that is that many people are expecting the government to pay for everything, including their health care. You don’t imagine the government will actually do this without imposing conditions, do you? The government is yanking the catholic church’s chain here, which means it’s a darned good thing some other religion isn’t yanking the government’s chain, isn’t it?

       But anyhow, back to government imposing conditions for those receiving its money: These government programs then become a political club for everyone to try to seize to force their own values on others. Catholics howl when forced to pay for family planning. Atheists (and many, many others) would howl if the Catholics got their way and the government not only banned abortion, but _any_ contraception, and that could well be done stealthily without overturning Roe v. Wade, via the nationalized health care we are headed for, should folks like Santorum ever grab the reins of power. The family planning services will not be offered and you will be forbidden to seek health care elsewhere. (Doing so would have been a felony if Hillary Clinton’s plan had been adopted in the early 1990s.)

       This issue is MUCH bigger than the catholic church being forced to pay for contraception. It is a matter of the fact that by expecting government to care for us we are giving them control over us as well, and God help those who lose the political battles because the government is a monopoly, but the health insurances businesses it is systematically restricting if not outright destroying are not. (And since there IS no God to help the people losing the political battle, they are SOL!)

       Even those who are inclined to favor government single-payer health care have got to stop and think what a disaster it would be if the religious right ever took over that system. Reverse the situation the catholic church finds itself in right now. It’s a double edged sword and it only takes one election for it to cut you instead of the Catholic Church.

       With that I’ll say no more (unless someone attacks this post) because my libertarian political views are really off topic for this forum.

       
       
       • on February 14, 2012 at 4:40 pm | Reply HC

         SteveInCO,

         I agree with a lot of what you have to say and disagree with some as well, but that’s okay. We don’t have to agree on everything. The one thing I do hope you understand because it got a little lost in your well-worded response (no sarcasm there, I mean it), this is a very serious issue for supporters of the separation of church and state. This was an unprecedented close-call. If President Obama had gone ahead with this he would have forced a religion to go against its own doctrine. Think about that for a second… How could you violate the First Amendment in a more extreme manner than that? Just as it was and would be wrong for the goverment to force an Atheist to say a morning prayer or abide by a religion’s doctrine, this is an abomination of the First Amendment.

         There are definitely too many problems with our government and the way things are headed to address them all here. However, your right and my right to our own beliefs is inarguably more and more at risk these days. That’s why I wanted to recap my main point.

         I hope you do not take offense at my reply as I am not trying to challenge you or take away from your reply in any way. I am just trying to find some common ground and conentrate on that.

         By the way, my blog is hosted at WordPress.com. The URL you mentioned was just the Tiny URL provided by them for linking purposes…

         
         
         • on February 14, 2012 at 7:17 pm | Reply SteveInCO

           “If President Obama had gone ahead with this he would have forced a religion to go against its own doctrine. ”

           True. I wasn’t so much disagreeing with you (you’ll note I did say it was wrong) as making the ancillary point that such will _inevitably_ happen to somebody when the government takes over important aspects of our lives. This time it happened to be the Catholics who were stepped on. Next time it could well be the pro-abortion-rights, pro-contraception people (of whatever creed or attitude towards relligion). Imagine a President Santorum when Obamacare kicks in, driving the insurance companies into bankruptcy, and the government “has to” step in and take over paying for medical care. And it refuses to pay for abortions or contraception.

           And by the way, from what I understand Obama’s “compromise” is unacceptable too (admittedly I’ve only been skimming the details of this story).

           
           
           • on February 14, 2012 at 7:55 pm HC

             Good points. Scary times all the way around… Glad we could have this exchange. We may not see eye to eye on everything, but we have common ground and shared points of view without insulting each other. Thank you.

             
             
           • on February 14, 2012 at 10:46 pm SteveInCO

             Having said all that…

             I was just made aware of the fact that the Catholic Church endorsed and pushed for Obamacare. In spite of all the dangers many had predicted at the time.

             They are now complaining they don’t like the way it’s being implemented.

             I’ve changed my mind. This is poetic justice. You’ve saddled us with it, now live with the consequences yourselves you hypocritical bastards.

             
             
           • on February 15, 2012 at 12:13 am SteveInCO

             (“you” in the above post referring to the Catholic Church, not to HC)

             
             
310. on February 14, 2012 at 10:58 pm | Reply Julia

     Hi Jessica,
     I heard the story about your constitutional battle in RI on NPR today in San Diego. I was really impressed and supportive of you efforts to hold your position so firmly in ensuring the seperation of church and state at your high school. As the mother of a 16 year old daughter, I appreciate how atypical it may be for a teen to be sophisticated enough to go against the norm and stand up for not just your strong beliefs but our constitutional rights. Don’t let your community get you down – know that there are many supporting you and your perserverance!
     Best regards, Julia

     
     
311. on February 14, 2012 at 11:01 pm | Reply RKR

     Hi Jessica,
     Just want to say congratulations on winning your case. I know it wasn’t easy and can’t even begin to imagine the hell you are going through from the fear mongering, superstitious people in your community. These same people would have a big problem if the words, Assalamu Alaikum (may god be with you) be uttered at a school function– heck, it’s only two words.

     Anyway, you were right because church & state should be separate. Good on you for fighting to help keep religion out of school. People need to realize, if they are going to accept one at government functions, they need to accept them all.

     Again, thanks for your hard work.

     Warmly,
     R

     
     
312. on February 15, 2012 at 2:55 am | Reply GER

     Jessica,
     Way to stand up for your rights and for the rights of hose around you. People may give you crap, but know that the constitution is on your side. This is why you won. This country was made for people like you. The founders of this country would never have wanted to see this country, originally a land of religious outcasts, become exactly what it sought freedom from.

     Christians,
     The days of your theocracy are numbered. Deal with it.

     
     
313. on February 15, 2012 at 1:48 pm | Reply caity

     “hitler was an athiest”

     yes, and he was also a puppy-loving vegitarian who liked blonde girls. i swear if anyone else says that to me im gonna scream.jessica is very brave and yall haters need to STFU!!!

     
     
     • on February 15, 2012 at 3:39 pm | Reply SteveInCO

       Well, actually, NO he wasn’t even an atheist.

       
       
314. on February 15, 2012 at 7:57 pm | Reply Phil

     Hi Jessica,
     I too heard your story on NPR. It’s rare to see such a young active American and you should be VERY proud of yourself. You seem to have handled the harsh comments very well. Keep up your skeptical attitude and demand evidence. Our natural world is so much more wonderful and beautiful than that depicted in the fictional books written 2000 years ago.
     I’m an Atheist, and I support you.

     
     
315. on February 15, 2012 at 11:50 pm | Reply Kat

     If this little brat can’t take the heat, she should have kept her trap closed. I’m converting to be Catholic and its been a wonderful experience. I think Atheists are angry people, mad at the world. And for some reason they like being that way. sad.

     
     
     • on February 16, 2012 at 3:36 am | Reply SteveInCO

       Well, calling people little brats makes you eminently qualified to be a good catholic. Best of luck with your new direction.

       As to why you’d find a church that does nothing but teach you are worthless scum _deserving_ to fry in hell for all eternity, and requires you to not even use contraception, to be such a wonderful experience…well, I guess it takes all kinds.

       No wonder you don’t like Jessica, she took away your special privilege. Sorry, no Roman Catholic prayer banner in government schools, even if most of the area is Roman Catholic.

       Study some history and you might discover that a century ago the RC church in the US _approved_ of the separation of church and state, because they used to get beat up on by Protestants. Of course, now that the shoe can be on the other foot, to hell with principle. Yep, you are learning your Catholicism well!

       
       
     • on February 16, 2012 at 3:47 am | Reply SteveInCO

       Oh, yeah forgot to mention what a wonderful experience it will be, to be a member of a church that is not just wrong (as all churches are) but actually criminally corrupt from the top down. Your idol, assumed name Benedict, real name Joseph Ratzinger’s previous job was to cover up for altar-boy-buggering priests.

       
       
316. on February 16, 2012 at 11:34 am | Reply Kat

     Like I said Atheists are hateful people.

     
     
     • on February 16, 2012 at 2:06 pm | Reply SteveInCO

       Well, I am returning nastiness for the nastiness you have given to others here.

       
       
     • on February 16, 2012 at 2:16 pm | Reply SteveInCO

       I am also returning nastiness to the Catholic Church, which has dished it out for almost two thousand years, and now refuses to do anything about priests buggering altar boys, scarring them for life.

       Honestly I cannot imagine why any adult would want to remain in such a corrupt institution, much less go out of their way to _join_ it.

       
       
317. on February 16, 2012 at 1:12 pm | Reply Abdallah Muslim..

     Dear All,

     I would like to invite you all to read the “story of Creation” from other perspective, maybe you will find some answers that you are looking for:

     http://debatewithatheist.blogspot.com/p/story-of-creation.html

     Good luck,

     
     
318. on February 16, 2012 at 6:28 pm | Reply Rob

     lol, muslims are by far the funniest people. I had many discussions with a muslim friend for a few years, and after a while he could do nothing but agree with me because he had no answers to my questions. So he sent me to his imam, as he should have the answers. A 40 min long conversation on the phone and the imam did not have any answers, so he said he would find some ‘muslim scientists’ or someone who knows more to call me back. I never got a phone call…

     The nonsense on that website are not answers. They are excuses as to why the quran does not live up to the standards that mohammed and others have stated. The day muslims realize that the quran is not the exact word of god and that mohammed made it up, will be a great day for all. The quran is full of errors, and the desperation that muslims reveal by trying to show these errors are not errors, is unbelievable. Much like the quran itself.

     http://www.jesusandmo.net/2012/02/01/dross/

     
     
319. on February 16, 2012 at 11:43 pm | Reply SteveInCO

     Cranston School board just voted 5-2 _against_ appealing the court decision.

     They realize, hopefully, now that they were in the wrong on this.

     
     
320. on February 17, 2012 at 7:08 am | Reply Kim Krzyzewski

     You know……I do not believe in god either, but I believe in live and let live. I think what you did is petty. There’s so many things in this world that you could have done for humanity instead of your selfish agenda. Really, take a good look at your heart, all the people who despise you now, and for what? A few words on a banner that gave kids hope and inspiration to become better caring people. Don’t you think the world needs that kind of thing now? Freedom, Tolerance, Acceptance, You seem like a bright girl, look those up because you obviously do not practice these things. I know atheists believe they don’t need God in their life to be a good person, good person, good person, ……..Practice what you preach

     
     
     • on February 17, 2012 at 8:40 am | Reply SteveInCO

       The school board was offered the option of leaving the good words on the banner and removing the overtly religious references.

       They chose to leave the references on there. What was more important, the religious references or the character building advice? Apparently the references.

       And so many of the Xian commenters clearly don’t follow the advice, so clearly, the only thing that mattered to them was the religious references too.

       
       
321. on February 17, 2012 at 8:30 am | Reply Steve Mulder

     Although our protection of individual rights is a corner stone and strength of our nation, it doesn’t seem to me that one person’s rights should outweigh a group of people’s rights. What about the hundreds of kids who should have the right to have a banner hanging if they prefer it. The only argument that I could see is if the banner was really damaging the one person even though the multitude wanted it there. So, for me the only legitimate argument for removing the banner is that Jessica is actually harmed by its presence. That to me seems absurd. Once again, we have allowed the rights of an individual to bring loss/harm to many.

     
     
     • on February 17, 2012 at 8:51 am | Reply SteveInCO

       *sigh*

       It is illegal to use a government facility to promote religion. And rightly so.

       “Group[s] of people” don’t have rights, rights belong to individual people. And there isn’t even an _individual_ right to have government endorse your religious beliefs for you.

       So your first sentence, right out the gate, is wrong. Jessica’s rights aren’t somehow trampling over the rights of others, rather, _no rights whatsoever were trampled on_.

       If the other students want to put the prayer on a T-shirt, they have that right. Really, they do, no one here denies that. I’d be greatly surprised if that happens though, because the REAL point of this exercise is to try to get the government to endorse their religious views. When this is rightly denied, the hue and cry makes you think we’d tried to ban Christianity itself. What absurdity. What a double standard.

       
       
322. on February 17, 2012 at 9:37 am | Reply Abdallah muslim

     Hi Rob,

     I answered on your email, and I asked you a simple question which I hope that I’ll receive your answer..
     You got my email now, and you can contact me any time you want, and please pass the questions that you want to ask (of course if they are related to Islam), and I will try my best to answer you, if I can..

     Also, please note if you are not able to understand the holy Quran, then don’t prevent people from reading it or claiming that it has errors, this miraculous book is not aimed to all people, ALLAH says that

     And who does more wrong than he who is reminded of the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) of his Lord, but turns away from them forgetting what (deeds) his hands have sent forth. Truly, We have set veils over their hearts lest they should understand this (the Qur’ân), and in their ears, deafness. And if you call them to guidance, even then they will never be guided. (18:57)

     So, if you are not able to understand Quran alone, you may be among those who God described or if really want the truth then you have to ask..

     Regards,

     
     
323. on February 17, 2012 at 10:08 am | Reply Like you care about anybody's name but yours..?

     SteveInCo

     The government does have the right to promote religion. The country was founded it. Separation of Church and State is to keep the state from telling you how to worship, but only because the state is supposed to protect your freedom to worship anyhow you want. Ahlquist doesn’t like that, and some people think that’s sexy, but some people think it’s selfish and brattish. Her father is what I see here though. Her father is like a little girl. I hope Jessica grows into a woman instead of the baby bitch her father is. Baby bitch just sounds funny, but it’s appropriate. I’m not much of a hater. I just think people should own up. When I’m acting like a little bitch, I speak up and say I’m acting like a little bitch. Then I tell myself to stop. This girl congratulating everyone for it. lol at her, reall thanks. this is her 15 minutes of fame? This is how she uses them? lol What a cute little miss MLKjr, huh?

     simple ignorance, rationalization, selfishness, snobbiness, illness, it’s all present here, but nobody’s perfect. Have fun, everybody.

     
     
     • on February 17, 2012 at 11:05 am | Reply Rob

       Um, the government does not have the right to promote religion, that is clearly stated in the Constitution and the first amendment. Not only do they not have the right to do it, they are barred from doing it, and any act promoting religion by the government or a government sponsored institution is illegal.

       
       
     • on February 17, 2012 at 3:53 pm | Reply SteveInCO

       This country was founded [on] it? [meaning religion]

       Find one mention of God, Christianity or Jesus in the constitution. Find one statement in the Constitution that this country is founded on Christianity, or any other religion, or religion in general.

       Put up, or shut up.

       “When I’m acting like a little bitch, I speak up and say I’m acting like a little bitch. Then I tell myself to stop.”

       Sounds like you have some work to do then.

       
       
324. on February 17, 2012 at 10:20 am | Reply Danielle

     I’m not Catholic but I think this girl is a petty, spoiled brat. Her parents raised her to have an entitlement complex. She deserves what she gets.

     
     
     • on February 22, 2012 at 1:25 am | Reply wright1

       She was vindicated after enduring threats of physical abuse and worse. She showed more restraint and intelligence in doing so than any of her detractors, including you.

       So I agree: she deserves what she has gotten.

       
       
325. on February 17, 2012 at 11:36 am | Reply Gina Stickley

     Jessica: I would like to apologize on behalf of all Christians for Tom Bauman’s behavior. Disciples of Jesus are in no way perfect (just saved) and we make terrible mistakes and give way to emotions. I’m afraid that is what Tom has been doing; as I have done in the past. God has made it so we can choose what to believe and not believe and those that want to know God and seek him, will have their hearts expanded to accept Him.

     I respect your convictions and determination in your own beliefs (You would actually make a great Christian)

     This video is encouraging: http://www.godvine.com/Start-the-Love-a-Girl-s-Awesome-Appeal-to-All-Christians-1152.html

     Gina

     
     
326. on February 17, 2012 at 11:51 am | Reply Rich DiPalma

     Hi Jessica,
     I really hope that you read this email to the end. It’s probably going to be a long one. I found your website after poking around last night after I read a few news stories about the controversy going on in Cranston. I wanted to email you and I believe you should receive my message here.

     I was just about to go to bed when I saw the news story regarding the removal of the prayer banner at Cranston West. I read the story, and then found your blog and other articles written about this issue. I saw how many people voiced their opinions in favor of you, and also how angered those who disagreed with you became. I admire you very much for standing up for what you believe in, especially when you were intimidated by the adult commission who heard your argument. Your determination is a characteristic that so many do not have in 2012 and we really need to make sure our freedoms are not taken away.

     After saying that, I want you to realize that I personally disagree with you. While I am a Catholic and a Christian and you are an atheist, for the sake of this writing I think I can say that I am a believer and you are an nonbeliever. I originally got very mad over the court’s decision, I became angered by you, and I became sickened by the support that you received in favor of your views and position. I went to bed thinking about how evil the world is becoming, and became depressed when I walked by my one year old daughter’s bedroom, knowing that each day she was waking up in a more godless society.

     Then I thought about you. We’re neighbors. I’m about 1.5 hours away in Connecticut. I dated a girl in college from Rhode Island and each year during Lent she used to bring my family the most incredible pastries from a bakery in Cranston. You’ve probably been to that bakery many times (I think it was called Carol’s) and suddenly you became more real to me, you were not just “an evil little thing” like the State Rep called you. You are also a high school student. I teach 8th grade here in CT. One of my students, though she didn’t say it directly to me, mentioned that she is an atheist. I’ll call her Andrea. On a maturity level she is ahead of almost all of the students. For an 8th grade little girl she reads poetry all of the time and watches only BBC. She may be a little quirky but I love her! She’s a really cool kid. While I cannot talk religion with the kids because it is a public school, because I teach Italian sometimes religious artwork, buildings, things etc. do pop up in class. I will delicately use that to “intellectually spar” with Andrea and she gets a big kick out of it. Thinking of Andrea your humanity became more vivid to me and you were simply not “someone somewhere out there” from a news story on the Internet. You are an actual human being.

     What is my point in writing all of this? Well, as a believer or a nonbeliever I think most people today would admit that Jesus was a real person. Whether you believe in more than that that of course is a matter of faith. And if he were real, I would be willing to bet that 99% of the people in the world, no matter what their religious beliefs, most consider his teachings to be good ways to live one’s life. For example, the science teacher on my team at work is an atheist, and she and I always joke around with each other about our religious views, she always says that she loves what Jesus says, she just doesn’t think that he or anyone else is God. Love, forgiveness, peace, helping your neighbor, these are values anyone would believe in and go along with.

     How can I go and condemn you for simply disagreeing with my views? Is that Christian like? How could I vote for Rick Santorum when he shares all of my “Catholic” values, yet he says that he would drop bombs on Iran? That is hypocritical. Jesus, God or not, real person or not, would not approve of us hurting others. How could I hate you when He only preaches love love love and peace peace peace.

     I would be willing to bet that my email to you is different than most other posts you’ve received. I want you to know that I am not writing this in a hypocritical tone, I am not writing this in a sarcastic manner. I am not shouting at you even when I use an exclamation point. So often when we “write” emails, texts, posts, blogs, etc. things get misconstrued because we are not able to actually “hear” what the author is saying. I wanted to clarify this.

     So finally, my point. I have a challenge for you. I think you would agree that God either exists or does not exist. Simply by me believing in Him does not make him exist, and by you not believing in Him doesn’t do the opposite. Our beliefs are meaningless to the actual truth, correct? Now what if you are correct? What if God doesn’t exist? In the end it’s no big deal for me or for you. We hopefully live our earthly lives as good people, hopefully live a full life to a ripe old age and that’s it. We’re done. But what if there actually is more? What if God does truly exist? What if our earthly life is just a drop in the bucket compared to an eternal life somewhere, literally, a life that never ever ends. Denying that this exists wouldn’t it be at least to say “significant” for the non believer to deny (I hope I’m explaining that the way I intended to)?

     I’ve spent quite a bit of time writing this and I hope that you can take just a few moments out of your week for what I am going to ask you to do. Here is the challenge that I mentioned. For one week straight, please slightly give up your atheist views. At a particular time each day, maybe right before you go to bed, or in the morning, or during some down time with no distractions when you can concentrate, I would like you say something along the lines of “God, if you do exist would you please reveal yourself to me.” Open your mind, open your heart. Just for a few moments for one week don’t say that there is no God, take it up one notch by admitting that you don’t know if there is a God. People can definitely be believers and non believers, but no one really can say that God does or does not exist by human knowledge. I would ask that if you do this please do it sincerely, in the end it may be nothing but it might just be the most important thing in your life.

     Finally, you might be wondering, why did this random guy in Connecticut spend all of this time to write to you? The answer is very simple. I used to think that the most important things in life were to “be successful”, to be educated, to make decent money (mainly to be able to provide for my family), to find perfect love, to help the poor, to care for the sick, etc. All of these things are great things and I hope we all achieve them. But very recently in my life I’ve come to understand there is one single thing that I consider more important than anything else. It is to help God save souls. Nothing else matters. I do believe in God and I do believe in after life. I do believe it is eternal, and I do believe that it can be spent in much different places. Finally, I believe more than in any time in history that human souls are at stake.

     If you were with me throughout this entire writing and now at the very end think it’s crazy please do not disregard it. Reread it and think about what I believe in deep down in my heart. I hope then that you are touched and are flattered that I took the time to write this. It is amazing that often times it is easier to tell things like this to someone we don’t even know, yet people who we are close with are often the last that we would approach. If you can please email me to let me know that you at least received this I would appreciate it.

     Thank you for listening,
     Rich

     P.S. If your family thinks the same way I invite them to take up my challenge too.

     
     
     • on February 17, 2012 at 4:11 pm | Reply Michael

       Dear Rich,

       Nice letter.

       Thanks for reaching out.

       Unfortunately, Jessica never deigns to reply to anyone on this blog. No matter how much heart and soul you put into your posts.

       And while I am also a believer and appreciate your perspective, I think the Pascal’s Wager you are proposing is not very convincing to an atheist (someone who thinks that God doesn’t believe in him or her is my slant on the true psychodynamics behind “atheism”).

       The reason is that if God does not exist and the world really is a merciless jungle, as Dawkins and others aver, then it does not pay at all to live according to Christian teaching of mercy, mildness and meekness. Wouldn’t you agree?

       So that’s the only point I would disagree with you over.

       Shalom baShem Yeshua – Peace in the Name of Jesus.

       If you want to write to me: mpkorn AT ymail DOT com

       PS your Catholic Church unfortunately adds fuel to Jessica’s bonfire by officially endorsing Darwinism. It is a great example of how Christian institutional cowardice and greed shoot all of us believers in the foot and murder the spirits of seeking souls like Jessica. So perhaps you should investigate your own church’s role in perpetrating the evil delusion of Darwinism.

       
       
       • on February 17, 2012 at 4:13 pm | Reply Michael

         see my many links posted above for more details about the falseness of Darwinism….

         
         
       • on February 17, 2012 at 10:44 pm | Reply Rich

         Hi Michael,

         Thanks for the response. I’m a bit confused though. The Vatican as far as I know of has always supported and promoted creationism. My own personal belief, if we all came from monkeys, then why are there still monkeys?! haha, I have an atheist friend who loves when I say that. Keep in mind, Catholicism is (by far) the largest and oldest Christian group in the world, so there may be Catholics who have certain beliefs (such as unofficially supporting Darwinism while this may not be an official position held by the Church.

         
         
         • on February 18, 2012 at 12:11 am | Reply Rob

           “My own personal belief, if we all came from monkeys, then why are there still monkeys?”

           If you do not know the answer to this then you have no idea what evolution is. It is like saying you exist, therefore your cousin does not exist. You and your cousin can both exist because you have a common ancestor (grandparents). Evolution does not say you evolved from your cousin (monkeys), it says you evolved from your grandparents (ancient monkeys, which are different from monkeys that live today, since we diverged 25 million years ago). Apes and monkeys are our cousins, and horses are our more distant cousins, and fish are even more distant cousins.

           
           
         • on February 18, 2012 at 3:24 am | Reply SteveInCO

           Rich,

           Rob’s critique of your monkey question is spot on. By his analogy, chimpanzees are brothers, gorillas are first cousins, orangutans are second cousins, and gibbons (if I recall correctly) are third cousins.

           The Catholic Church itself, the hierarchy, has accepted evolution. It’s not just some of the members.

           http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/4588289/The-Vatican-claims-Darwins-theory-of-evolution-is-compatible-with-Christianity.html

           I wouldn’t be too surprised, however, if they backtrack on this in the future.

           
           
327. on February 17, 2012 at 12:36 pm | Reply Joe

     Um, Rob, you miss the point.

     
     
328. on February 17, 2012 at 12:37 pm | Reply Joe

     Also, Rob, you’re recent comments are inaccurate.

     
     
329. on February 17, 2012 at 1:11 pm | Reply Hennezy

     Remember the former things of old, For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like Me, Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things that are not yet done, Saying, “My counsel shall stand, And I will do all My pleasure,’ -Isaiah 46:9,10

     Many tried to overthrow the Bible but the Bible still stands to this day from when it was first written some 3,500 years ago.

     Some like to call themselves “Evil” but What was Told Adam and Eve about the tree of knowledge of good and evil?

     “Do not eat the fruit from that tree or else you will surly die”

     Christians are forbidden to retaliate physically and are told to Turn the Other Cheek. It’s easy to pick on the Christians because they should not fight back.
     But are told to bless and prey for their enemies.

     To Hate the Atheist is taboo to the eyes of Christ(He is the great “I Am” in the book of Exodus)

     Jessica, I don’t think your evil. Neither does God.
     Your name has been inscribed in the palm of his hand.
     God and Lucifer are still in a battle for the survival of Human Souls including yours and mine.

     And Martin Luther is one who I think you should research for he opposed The Church.
     William Miller who discovered the 2300 year Prophecy and the Cleansing of the Sanctuary.

     These are subjects the Church does not like to talk about.

     Thank you for reading this.

     
     
330. on February 17, 2012 at 1:14 pm | Reply Hennezy

     Sorry I meant PRAY no prey.

     
     
331. on February 17, 2012 at 1:48 pm | Reply Dawn Strykr

     I’ve looked at the article and the picture on this page and what I see is a rebellious child who believes she has “won”. Sociopaths do that….they believe they must always win.

     I can assure you, you have not won. While you may lie to the world claiming you believe there is no God, there is no such thing as an atheist in a fox hole. Too bad you spent so much energy making the world worse than better. Too bad you do not spend your time building treasurers in heaven rather than seeking attention on earth; be it negative or positve attention is everything to you.

     There is a day coming very soon that you will not have a choice. It will be allah or Yeshua. I leave you with this famous quote from Albert Pike, the same spirit that controls your life:

     “We shall unleash the Nihilists and Atheists, and we shall provoke a formidable social cataclysm which in all its horror will show clearly to the nations the effect of absolute atheism, origin of savagery and of the most bloody turmoil. Then everywhere, the citizens, obliged to defend themselves against the world minority of revolutionaries, will exterminate those destroyers of civilization, and the multitude, disillusioned with Christianity, whose deistic spirits will be from that moment without compass (direction), anxious for an ideal, but with out knowing where to render its adoration, will receive the true light through the universal manifestation of the pure doctrine of Lucifer, brought finally out in the public view, a manifestation which will result from the general reactionary movement which will follow the destruction of Christianity and atheism, both conquered and exterminated at the same time” (William Guy Carr, Pawns in the Game, p. xv-xvi).

     
     
     • on February 17, 2012 at 4:31 pm | Reply SteveInCO

       “While you may lie to the world claiming you believe there is no God, there is no such thing as an atheist in a fox hole. ”

       You have a lot of nerve, telling someone what THEY think and believe. Even Psalm 14 agrees that the “fool” believes “in his heart” that there is no god.

       The rest of your diatribe is too disconnected from anything real for me to try to address it; there’s no common ground and I haven’t the time to try to establish it.

       
       
332. on February 17, 2012 at 2:28 pm | Reply Mr. C

     God damn. You people are all so contradicting. No one knows the origins of the universe. Atheists saying there is no god are just as ignorant as Christians saying there is one. No one has any definitive proof to address with total certainty the origins of the universe. I’m all for being atheist (I’m agnostic) but you have to accept the fact that being atheist requires just as much faith (belief without reason) as being religious. That being said, you cannot honestly tell me that this does not violate the constitution. These god damn christians believe they are acting on behalf of their god, and because of that you cannot reason with them. If we simply say, “We can leave this up because of tradition, and because it isn’t a radical example of christianity becoming more pervasive in schools.” we are allowing people to think it is okay to bring religion into schools. Just a few weeks ago the Indiana senate approved legislature allowing the teaching of creationism in science classes. It’s because we say, “A little religion won’t hurt.” that we have occurrences like this. When people are given leeway to allow minor bits of religion into schools they drive in the notion that it is acceptable to put religion into schools. The constitution wasn’t written to cater to atheists, it was written to prevent anyone from being catered to. And don’t take this as a pro-atheist sentiment. The atheists that declare this as a victory for atheist students everywhere are just as in the wrong as christians saying this is a loss for christian students everywhere. You god damn people take things so personally. If someone dares mention your deity or lack thereof you take such offense that you go into overdrive-defensive-as-fuck mode and refuse to compromise. These are rules for a reason, and the reason is to prevent people from acting with complete certainty that they are right where everyone else is wrong.

     
     
     • on February 17, 2012 at 4:27 pm | Reply SteveInCO

       “No one knows the origins of the universe.”

       Indeed. But we do know that those who claim to know based on a book written sometime in the bronze age (at latest), are in fact wrong.

       “Atheists saying there is no god are just as ignorant as Christians saying there is one. ”

       Actually, most atheists simply assert that there is no proof of god’s existence therefore they don’t believe there is one.

       [I personally go a bit farther, since the god described in the bible entails logical contradictions (omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent are contradictory). He cannot therefore exist, for the same reason four sided triangles cannot exist. But that's beside the point.]

       “The constitution wasn’t written to cater to atheists, it was written to prevent anyone from being catered to.” ABSOLUTELY correct.

       “The atheists that declare this as a victory for atheist students everywhere are just as in the wrong as christians saying this is a loss for christian students everywhere.”

       No, it is a victory for non-Christians (not just atheists) everywhere because the message has been sent that, as you put it, the government is not to cater to them. A message that many Christians BADLY need to hear.

       The middle part of your post eloquently describes the way things should be. This ruling puts us one step closer to that.

       “You god damn people take things so personally. If someone dares mention your deity or lack thereof you take such offense that you go into overdrive-defensive-as-fuck mode and refuse to compromise. ”

       This isn’t about someone mentioning the deity, it’s about government catering to Christians. You seem to understand that’s bad, but don’t seem to understand that this complaint was about an instance of the very thing you are saying the government should not do.

       “These are rules for a reason, and the reason is to prevent people from acting with complete certainty that they are right where everyone else is wrong.”

       Well you know something? All Jessica did was ask that someone follow the rules! So what is your complaint here?

       
       
       • on February 18, 2012 at 1:03 am | Reply Mr. C

         “Actually, most atheists simply assert that there is no proof of god’s existence therefore they don’t believe there is one.”

         So, they are denying the existence of a deity despite there being evidence to the contrary (there is evidence for both sides of the existence debate). This, in effect, is the same as christians stating that there is a god without recognizing the evidence that contradicts what they believe. What I’m trying to get at is that you cannot prove or disprove the existence of a god, so denial of a deity requires ignorance of valid evidence leading towards the other conclusion. Recognizing the possibility of a god or the possibility of nothingness is the only way to live without ignorance in my opinion (however I’m more than positive most would disagree), at least in regards to that issue.

         “No, it is a victory for non-Christians (not just atheists) everywhere because the message has been sent that, as you put it, the government is not to cater to them. A message that many Christians BADLY need to hear.”

         You must be careful with the language of your statements. When you say things like this you imply that all christians want religion in schools. Anyway, my point was to reaffirm that it is not a victory for atheists in that the atheists are not being favored by this ruling. This is not to cater to the beliefs of atheists and it does not make atheists’ beliefs any more correct. It is not an endorsement of all atheists’ beliefs, but an endorsement of nondiscriminatory practices. Many atheists may take this as more than it really means (not many in my opinion, but the more arrogant ones probably will).

         “This isn’t about someone mentioning the deity, it’s about government catering to Christians. You seem to understand that’s bad, but don’t seem to understand that this complaint was about an instance of the very thing you are saying the government should not do.”

         At this point I broke into a tangent where I ranted at everyone calling Jessica a demon child and people calling those in opposition to Jessica ignorant of constitutional rights. It is this constant god damn bickering that makes people hate each other. No one feels the need to be rational and respectful when you debate their beliefs. This minor debate that we are having is the closest thing you can find to both sides arguing with reason and words instead of faith and emotions. You know what the problem is? All of these people have at the very bedrock of their identity their (non)religious beliefs, and when those ideals are threatened they become so engrossed in defending them with every tooth, nail, and muscle in their body that they don’t recognize when they go too far. They deride the beliefs of their opposition in a vain attempt to bring empowerment to their own beliefs without realizing that they directly pushed others away from the very ideals they thought they were upholding. Furthermore, a vicious circle is created in the derision of the other’s beliefs, which causes them to act in the same way to the one who caused them such mental anguish. It’s a cycle that continues until the maximum amount of hate allowed by the modes of communication (on the internet: hateful words, in real life: abuse) is dealt. That’s my whole problem with these god damn idiots who don’t realize that the world is better when they let others just be.

         “Well you know something? All Jessica did was ask that someone follow the rules! So what is your complaint here?”

         No complaint. I fully support the movement. I don’t use paragraphs when switching ideas. I just assume everyone is thinking the same things I am as I write.

         
         
         • on February 18, 2012 at 3:45 am | Reply SteveInCO

           “So, they are denying the existence of a deity despite there being evidence to the contrary (there is evidence for both sides of the existence debate).”

           There is a difference between saying “I see no evidence for the existence of god” and saying “I am sure there is no god”. Most atheists state the former, not the latter. They proceed as if there is no god because they believe the burden of proof is on those who assert that something exists. (Besides which, if you cannot consider god’s existence proved, you cannot prove anything about god’s nature, so you certainly couldn’t figure out which religion says the right things about god, so any choice of religion, for someone not satisfied that god exists, would be totally arbitrary.)

           “You must be careful with the language of your statements. When you say things like this you imply that all christians want religion in schools.”

           It was not my intent to do so. There have been some few who have felt strongly enough about NOT seeking such catering, to come here and say so. I am sure the actual numbers are much larger (I do wish they’d speak out more when their more aggressive co-religionists go on a rampage.)

           “Anyway, my point was to reaffirm that it is not a victory for atheists in that the atheists are not being favored by this ruling.”

           If your definition of “victory for atheists” is “getting the government to cater to them”, then of course you are right, this wasn’t a victory by that definition. But if that’s your definition, your logic seems inconsistent to me.

           Above, you quite properly chided me for assuming all Christians would feel defeated by getting the government not to cater to them. Instead, presumably, it’s a victory (in the eyes of some Christians) to get the government to stop catering.

           But here, I am chided for using the word victory, to describe the situation of non-Christians not having the government cater to them, or to Christians. Why is a situation where a group is NOT being catered to a victory (in the first case) but NOT a victory (in the second)?

           Regardless of how you resolve this (apparent?) contradiction, I would say this is a victory for anyone who does not believe the government should cater to any viewpoint concerning religion. That would include the overwhelming majority of atheists and (guessing, based on what I see) about a third of Christians. Plus who knows what proportion of people of other persuasions (an unknown and perhaps unknowable percentage of whom want the government to cater to them, but know it’s hopeless to even ask in a country where they are a minority).

           Why did I say only a third of Christians would consider this a victory? I know plenty of Christians, unfortunately, who wouldn’t dream of being as crude and barbaric as many of the people dumping on Jessica, but who would never willingly agree to remove “Under god” from the Pledge of Allegiance, or “In God We Trust” from our money, or end the government sanction of the National Day of Prayer. To them this sort of thing is utterly natural for the government to be doing, they cannot imagine it otherwise. (They might have problems with the government catering to some sect, even their sect, but they think government should be pushing a non-sectarian form of Christianity–and they will even assert that under the first amendment it’s OK for the government to do so as long as they don’t favor, say, Baptists over Episcopalians–in other words the First Amendment states the government cannot favor a _specific_ form of Christianity.) They just won’t get that truly nasty and hateful about it when you argue against them, but they will be firm. That’s why I figure about 2/3rds of Christians _expect_ the government to cater to them, even if most of them aren’t jerks about it. I suspect the number is actually higher, but that’s just an impression and I would relish being proved to be a pessimist.

           
           
           • on February 18, 2012 at 12:55 pm Mr. C

             “There is a difference between saying “I see no evidence for the existence of god” and saying “I am sure there is no god”. Most atheists state the former, not the latter. They proceed as if there is no god because they believe the burden of proof is on those who assert that something exists. (Besides which, if you cannot consider god’s existence proved, you cannot prove anything about god’s nature, so you certainly couldn’t figure out which religion says the right things about god, so any choice of religion, for someone not satisfied that god exists, would be totally arbitrary.)”

             If you recognize there is a possibility of the existence of a god you are more in line with agnosticism than atheism. From Dictionary.com: Atheist; a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings. Agnostic; a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience. Too be clear, when I say “ignorance” I am not applying that word to you, because it is clear that you will accept valid logic and will recognize faults with any belief system. Furthermore, I’m 100% convinced the “christian” god does not exist due to their many contradictions, however a generic supreme being I cannot make predictions on.

             “If your definition of “victory for atheists” is “getting the government to cater to them”, then of course you are right, this wasn’t a victory by that definition. But if that’s your definition, your logic seems inconsistent to me.

             Above, you quite properly chided me for assuming all Christians would feel defeated by getting the government not to cater to them. Instead, presumably, it’s a victory (in the eyes of some Christians) to get the government to stop catering.

             But here, I am chided for using the word victory, to describe the situation of non-Christians not having the government cater to them, or to Christians. Why is a situation where a group is NOT being catered to a victory (in the first case) but NOT a victory (in the second)?”

             In regards to this and the rest of your posts. Yes, you actually hit on what I was trying to say. It is a victory for non-christians and many christians, however having browsed r/atheism (it’s on reddit) where the people are constantly flaunting their atheism and their supposed greater intelligence than their christian counterparts I can already tell some atheists will take this ruling to be an endorsement of the idea that secularism is greater than non-secularism (and in the government that’s true, but not necessarily in other aspects of life). So, in summation, you are correct in saying this is a victory for those in favor of keeping religion out of government. It may have seemed like I was contradicting you but that was not my intention. I just wanted to make sure you knew this ruling did not endorse anything but the constitution.

             As for the 1/3 in support of this whole ordeal, I would actually say there are fewer. Here’s a very disturbing article to me http://www.gallup.com/poll/3730/Most-Americans-Support-Prayer-Public-Schools.aspx. And, I assume you didn’t address the rest of my post because you felt it relatively accurate of human behavior?

             
             
         • on February 18, 2012 at 4:47 am | Reply Rob

           Name one piece of evidence for the existence of a god.

           
           
           • on February 18, 2012 at 1:11 pm Mr. C

             As you initiated the argument I would ask that you provide one piece of evidence that there is not a supreme being. Arguing against Christianity is quite simple due to the vast number of contradictions in their belief structure, however to absolutely disprove the existence of any deity at all is quite another matter. Because we don’t know what came before the Big Bang it is quite possible that a supreme being initiated existence. We cannot prove or disprove, so any absolute belief we attain must be based on faith. I could argue the complexity of human body systems, the unbelievable odds against the formation of organisms and the even greater odds against those organisms evolving into what we are today, or I could simply state that God created the Big Bang. The common theme in all of these arguments is that they can be interpreted for both sides. You may say that the complexity of life on this planet is understandable given the amount of time that has passed for things to evolve, and all you really need to say to contradict my other claim is that God didn’t create the Big Bang. The point is, there is evidence for both sides of the argument and people refuse to acknowledge both sides because one side doesn’t mesh well with their belief systems. If you just google “logical arguments for God’s existence” you will surely find arguments that you cannot disprove. Whether you choose to recognize that there is validity in those arguments is entirely up to you.

             
             
           • on February 18, 2012 at 9:53 pm Rob

             Human beings have invented a supreme being in over 5000 separate instances. Based on what you said it appears you would not accept a theistic god but a deistic god. Since we know that a universe can come from nothing (read Stephen Hawking and Lawrence Krauss’ books), and that life as complex as us can arise from simplicity, it would leave this deistic god with nothing to do.

             Even if a deistic god did exist, there would be no point arguing for it, as it would accomplish nothing. For instance, I could prove to you scientifically that this deistic god exists, it would not affect your life in any way. Furthermore, we would then need to find out scientifically where this deistic god came from.

             My view is that given evolution of the universe and life, we understand that complexity comes from simplicity. To postulate something incredibly more complex than anything we know exists before that initial simplicity, seems preposterous. Essentially the likelihood that a deistic god exists is extremely low, I am simply arguing the most likely explanation.

             I have read and heard all of those arguments many times, most of them are circular or based on assumptions that are not entirely true. I have only ever heard one good argument for religion and that was from Alister McGrath, but that argument was based on the assumption that god didn’t exist.

             
             
           • on February 18, 2012 at 10:43 pm Mr. C

             “Human beings have invented a supreme being in over 5000 separate instances. Based on what you said it appears you would not accept a theistic god but a deistic god. Since we know that a universe can come from nothing (read Stephen Hawking and Lawrence Krauss’ books), and that life as complex as us can arise from simplicity, it would leave this deistic god with nothing to do.”

             The realm of theoretical and quantum physics is a fickle thing. I wouldn’t dare contradict someone as intelligent as Stephen Hawking, but I would point out that while that is possible to be the reason for our existence, it is not the possible only reason. To me, while I’m sure there are aspects of theoretical and quantum physics that can be applied and viewed in the real world, much of theoretical physics is theoretical. It makes sense that it may be like that, but it is entirely possible that it is not.

             “Even if a deistic god did exist, there would be no point arguing for it, as it would accomplish nothing. For instance, I could prove to you scientifically that this deistic god exists, it would not affect your life in any way. Furthermore, we would then need to find out scientifically where this deistic god came from.”

             I’ll let the more intelligent people figure out the origins of the universe. I’m focusing on college. Who really cares anyway? (99% of the planet)

             “My view is that given evolution of the universe and life, we understand that complexity comes from simplicity. To postulate something incredibly more complex than anything we know exists before that initial simplicity, seems preposterous. Essentially the likelihood that a deistic god exists is extremely low, I am simply arguing the most likely explanation.”

             Well I wouldn’t say that complexity comes from simplicity. I would say that all things are inherently complex and that complexity, in fact, comes from complexity. I would hardly call the physics describing the Big Bang simple.

             “I have read and heard all of those arguments many times, most of them are circular or based on assumptions that are not entirely true. I have only ever heard one good argument for religion and that was from Alister McGrath, but that argument was based on the assumption that god didn’t exist.”

             The only belief I have in regards to higher powers is that we don’t know enough (and I suppose we will never know enough) to definitively say that there exists or does not exist a deity. It is similar to how we cannot prove anything, we can only make assumptions and very educated guesses. For example, if I asked you to absolutely prove that Obama was elected president of the United States there is no amount of evidence that could disprove the infinite number of claims I could make (no matter how ridiculous) against that theory. All you would be able to do is say to me that there is so much evidence to believe he was elected that it is foolish to think otherwise. Evidence corroborates, not guarantees certainty. As it turns out, the bigger the claim, the more evidence you need to support it and the more likely it is to find counter-evidence (take evolution as an example). And, when making a claim about the origin of existence (arguably the largest, most impacting claim one can make) there is almost no amount of evidence that can be enough.

             
             
           • on February 18, 2012 at 11:26 pm Rob

             So your saying you think there is not enough evidence to make a claim either way. You could have said that from the beginning. Would you agree that the probability that there is a god is becoming less and less, since science began?

             Atheists are not the ones claiming certainty, we are simply arguing for the most logical and likely of the possibilities.

             “I would say that all things are inherently complex and that complexity, in fact, comes from complexity”

             Agreed. But you would have to agree that chemistry is more complex than physics, and biology is more complex than chemistry. Since they appeared in that order, the universe becomes more complex as time passes.

             “As it turns out, the bigger the claim, the more evidence you need to support it”
             Agreed.

             “and the more likely it is to find counter-evidence (take evolution as an example)”
             Unless of course it is true, in which case it is less likely to to find counter evidence, and it is no surprise that there is no counter evidence to evolution. Which means it is also no surprise that there is plenty of counter evidence to the existence of a god.

             
             
           • on February 18, 2012 at 11:44 pm Mr. C

             “So your saying you think there is not enough evidence to make a claim either way. You could have said that from the beginning. Would you agree that the probability that there is a god is becoming less and less, since science began?”

             I stated in the original post I made that I was agnostic. I was simply playing devil’s advocate for the existence of a deity.

             “Atheists are not the ones claiming certainty, we are simply arguing for the most logical and likely of the possibilities.”

             Well, they are claiming certainty that there is no deity. Agnosticism is the term for those who state they do not know. An agnostic atheist (in my opinion) would claim that logic favors nonexistence of a deity, but does not guarantee with absolute certainty that is true.

             From Dictionary.com: Atheism; disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.
             Agnosticism; an intellectual doctrine or attitude affirming the uncertainty of all claims to ultimate knowledge.

             Agreed. But you would have to agree that chemistry is more complex than physics, and biology is more complex than chemistry. Since they appeared in that order, the universe becomes more complex as time passes.

             I would agree that physics is more fundamental than chemistry, chemistry than biology, but I would also argue that it is possible (not guaranteed) that there is something more fundamental than physics. Perhaps the deity, perhaps not.

             “Unless of course it is true, in which case it is less likely to to find counter evidence, and it is no surprise that there is no counter evidence to evolution. Which means it is also no surprise that there is plenty of counter evidence to the existence of a god.”

             Bad example, but you get the point. In any case, the existence debate is far greater than the debate for evolution. Too great to know anything with absolute certainty

             
             
           • on February 19, 2012 at 1:35 am Rob

             Look up the word disbelief, this does not mean certainty for there being no god. I’ve never heard an atheist say ‘it is a fact that there is no god, and I can prove it’. On the other hand, the amount of times I’ve heard a fundamentalist say the opposite, and then give ridiculous answers as proof, is astonishing. Just read this entire page.

             No I don’t see your point that the existence debate is greater than evolution because even if you prove there is a deistic god, it is not going to change your life or how you see the universe.

             
             
           • on February 19, 2012 at 2:27 am Mr. C

             “Look up the word disbelief, this does not mean certainty for there being no god. I’ve never heard an atheist say ‘it is a fact that there is no god, and I can prove it’. On the other hand, the amount of times I’ve heard a fundamentalist say the opposite, and then give ridiculous answers as proof, is astonishing. Just read this entire page.”

             The Dictionary.com definition- Disbelief; The inability or refusal to believe or to accept something as true.

             If you don’t believe in god you refuse to accept the existence of a deity as true. That means you believe it to be fact that there is no god. I don’t think I misinterpreted any definition.

             “No I don’t see your point that the existence debate is greater than evolution because even if you prove there is a deistic god, it is not going to change your life or how you see the universe.”

             So you are saying the single reason for the existence of everything ever is on equal level with the evolution of species on a planet in terms of scope and impact on how people view the world. Do you not consider the impact it would have on the religious beliefs of everyone on the planet if there was definitive proof for or against the existence of a deity?

             
             
           • on February 19, 2012 at 7:02 am Rob

             By that definition you also disbelieve in god. You refuse to or have an inability to accept that a deity is true, since you said that you cannot know enough to positively make that claim.

             So even if you refuse to accept that there is a deity, this does not therefore mean that it is a fact that there is no god.

             That information would have an impact on religious people, but that is irrelevant to rational people like you and me. I’m quite certain that if it was proven a fact that the universe came from nothing, it would have a far greater impact on the religious than if it was proven a deity exists. But neither of these outcomes would change the way I see the universe.

             
             
           • on February 19, 2012 at 12:11 pm Mr. C

             “By that definition you also disbelieve in god. You refuse to or have an inability to accept that a deity is true, since you said that you cannot know enough to positively make that claim.

             So even if you refuse to accept that there is a deity, this does not therefore mean that it is a fact that there is no god.”

             Say there is a door. Behind the door there is two possibilities. Either there is nothing, or there is a big fat guy in an undersized suit. You believe there is nothing and you assume when you walk through that door there will be nothing. A Christian believes there is that big guy who will welcome them with open arms when they walk through. I choose to just ignore the door entirely and go do something else. It’s hard to explain my beliefs when the definitions are set up to state I either believe or I don’t. Being that there are only two answers for the question, I’m just avoiding the question all together. If pressed I would say I both believe and do not believe in the existence of a god. Apparent contradictions aside, that’s the only thing that makes sense to me.

             
             
           • on February 19, 2012 at 8:27 pm Rob

             Well there is your problem, there are far more than two possibilities. The fat guy is the least likely of all of those possibilities, but that doesn’t mean I rule it out as a possibility.

             While the religious are arguing at the door what color suit the guy is wearing, I am simply saying that the chances that there is a fat guy at all is very slim. haha pun.

             By simply being here discussing it you are not avoiding the door/question, you are standing there with the rest of us saying “guys, it could be anything”.

             
             
           • on March 27, 2012 at 3:31 am Ken

             The existence of reason.

             
             
           • on March 27, 2012 at 3:33 am Ken

             The existence of reason is evidence of the existence of God.

             (Just to explain the enigmatic one-liner above!)

             
             
           • on March 27, 2012 at 4:44 am Rob

             The existence of reason is evidence for the existence of reason. In order to say god is responsible you require evidence that a god exists.

             
             
333. on February 17, 2012 at 2:37 pm | Reply Brandy

     Jessica,

     I think you spent all your negative energy just so you could say you won. You didn’t. You are still a spoiled little brat. You are a nobody.

     
     
     • on February 17, 2012 at 4:00 pm | Reply SteveInCO

       Do you, and all the others who insist on telling Jessica she’s just a spoiled little brat, or an “attention whore,” or being manipulated, honestly have trouble imagining she might have real, positive motives for doing this, or is this just some talking point someone fed you?

       
       
     • on March 27, 2012 at 3:18 am | Reply Blake

       Please actually look at what she has said and take it at face value. Not everyone lies just to get attention. Please do not assume things about someone yo have only heard about in the news, if you truly want to know Jessica, try talking to her and asking her what her motives were. I realize she has already said what her motives were and you seem to be blind to that, but it seems the best solution given the ignorance some people are showing.

       Blake

       
       
334. on February 18, 2012 at 7:59 pm | Reply Tiffany

     Wow. That Tom Bauman guy is a real douchebag.

     
     
335. on February 19, 2012 at 5:43 am | Reply Jared Jones

     Jessica, I am a Christian, and have no hateful feelings towards you. I know you don’t believe there is a God, and it’s actually easier not to believe with all of those who say they hate you, and claim to be Christian. You’re absolutely right, no one is to judge. I as a Christian am no better than you. You are wonderfully created (which is actually evolution if we want to get technical, we evolve from our parents, they from their parents, and so forth). I respect your believe that there is no God, and just as you believe there is no God, you have taken a stand for your believe by having a public prayer banner removed. And that’s absolutely fine. Please allow me also to exercise my believe in God, and as a Christian. I am praying to God as I type, who I believe in, that he can reveal to you the same love, and spiritual presence that I have experienced, so that possibly at some point in your life, you may believe. I know you may ask why do I care about your believes, or your salvation, I should mind my own business right? But as a servant of Jesus Christ, I am not selfish, and do care.

     
     
336. on February 19, 2012 at 5:51 am | Reply Jared Jones

     Allow me to also say that the outbursts and negativity I saw on the news from people in support of keeping the banner…I can’t say whether they are Christians or not, but they showed no decency or respect. When it’s all said and done, and it’s not really about the banner at all. Think about it.

     
     
     • on February 19, 2012 at 1:55 pm | Reply SteveInCO

       Jared,

       I am curious.

       Have you ever personally seen people behaving like the haters you mentioned? Spewing hate at someone who asks that the government be neutral towards religion?

       If so, what did you do then? Have you ever tried to explain to them, there on the spot, that they are not behaving as Christians should? Have you ever tried to explain to them that this is not Christian behavior?

       One of my pet peeves is people who, when they see this sort of behavior, hasten to jump in and explain that the badasses are not _really_ Christians. Which may or may not be; I am an atheist too, and not qualified to determine what “true” Christianity might be. But why come here to tell Jessica they aren’t acting Christlike? Why not tell them, which might actually do some good? Certainly the badasses won’t listen to me, or Jessica, or any other atheist, trying to tell them they are not acting Christlike. But they might listen to you. So have you tried?

       
       
       • on March 27, 2012 at 3:05 am | Reply Blake

         I agree, rather than tell us that not all Christians are like that, which i already know as i have several religious friends with whom i discuss philosophy from time to time, please go on the offensive. Go, tell the people you are describing to act in a moral and mature fashion. Telling me that they need to be more respectful does nothing but assuage your own conscience.

         Blake

         
         
337. on February 19, 2012 at 10:11 am | Reply Davey

     It has been vigorously, pointedly avoided: any discussion or
     comments about Ms. Ahlquist’s religion by birth, not by choice or preference of course. Is there ANY point at which
     this “my 15 minutes’ of fame” little girl will tell us about this?
     So rational, so clear: Yo, Jessica: what religion were you
     brought up under? Talk to me, baby

     
     
     • on February 19, 2012 at 1:45 pm | Reply SteveInCO

       It is utterly irrelevant. What matters is what she is now.

       Why not ask her what her favorite color is, or what the name of her first pet was?

       
       
     • on March 27, 2012 at 3:01 am | Reply Blake

       I agree with SteveInCO, the religion or lack of religion Jessica was brought up in has no bearing on the issues at hand. Also please refrain from being so condescending to someone who has done nothing do deserve such language. Jessica is more mature than some adults i know.

       Blake

       
       
       • on March 27, 2012 at 5:25 am | Reply Ken

         From what I have read, Jessica was brought up Roman Catholic. She lost her faith when God didn’t answer prayer. Now I think the Roman church largely lost the plot several centuries ago, which is not to say there are no Christians in it, but those that are are more despite catholic teaching rather than because of it. Be that as it may, there are two foundations upon which atheism usually rests – one, ‘there is no God’, and two ‘I hate him’. The former is the outward expression, the latter what is going on inside.

         If you want evidence of the latter, visit any atheist combox where you will find many (though not all) atheists spending their days trawling the net to find bad things done by ‘religious’ people, unteachableness, unending carping criticism and contempt for their fellow human beings who happen to be believers, and rejoicing when something goes wrong for believers. Indeed, “the venom of asps is under their lips, their mouth is full of curses and bitterness”.

         In the case of Jessica, I think is possible that her atheism is, if not anger with God, then at least disappointment. Perhaps she had a false expectation of what God should or shouldn’t do in answering prayer, I don’t know. Perhaps she has only ever known outward religious forms and ceremonies without any corresponding spiritual content and power.

         In short, in rejecting the emptiness of outward religion, she has wrongly rejected a lively faith in a real God, faith being the mode in which the biblical God may be encountered.

         
         
         • on March 27, 2012 at 2:22 pm | Reply Blake

           I think you misunderstand something about atheists. The SOLE thing that defines an atheist is their belief that there is no god or gods. I do not hate any “god(s).” The only people I can be said to hate, with regard to religion, are those people that try to force me to believe in their particular faith, or those that take their teachings to the extreme and try to harm other people because that is what they believe their religion is telling them to do. I will not speak for all atheists in any regard, but personally, when I go out and make comments such as these, it is not to bash any religious people. Religious people have every right to believe what they want, but they do not have the right to force those beliefs on me or to use those beliefs to justify attacking others. I do not stay up at night, just waiting for a religious person to make the news and then attack them for being religious. I go about my life and when I happen to hear about something, such as Jessica’s case, I feel that it is important to show my support for the ideals upon which this country were founded. Namely, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and many others that are too numerous for me to name in a short list.

           Blake

           
           
338. on February 19, 2012 at 3:47 pm | Reply joe

     you are nothing more than a piece of
     athiest shit

     
     
     • on February 19, 2012 at 9:03 pm | Reply SteveInCO

       And you are nothing less than the most erudite commenter ever.

       
       
339. on February 20, 2012 at 1:46 pm | Reply Steve

     Jess,
     Just because someone claims they’re Christian doesnt make them one. The basis of Christianity is love. My apologies for the rude comments on here.

     I do not agree with you but respect your will. If you are looking for the truth, you will find it. I know that God exists because of very specific signs and a knowing that i was given. I do not believe because someone made me believe.

     I do not see anything wrong about a banner being taken off somewhere. God lives in his people. He lives in you..even if you dont believe it. The greatest gift to us is free will to accept or reject him.
     SD

     
     
     • on February 20, 2012 at 5:11 pm | Reply SteveInCO

       If these people coming on here and being abusive are false Christians, then please… do us a favor.

       Whenever you see them acting this way, please don’t bother telling us that. Instead, confront THEM directly. (And I mean this both on the internet and in person.)

       You see, we are atheists. It’s really hard for us to figure out, given passages in the Bible that appear to portray Jesus as rude, temperamental and hateful (e.g., Matt 10:35-6 and John 2:1-4), and others where he is portrayed as loving–which ones are accurate and which ones we should disregard because we are not reading them in context. That’s an argument you, on the other hand, are qualified to engage in. But if we try to tell them they aren’t behaving as real Christians would, they will ignore us.

       What I’ve seen here is a load of nastiness dumped on Jessica by Christians (whom you hasten to assure me aren’t real Christians), and a fair number of posts by (other) Christians telling Jessica those aren’t real Christians–but I’ve seen very few such people responding directly to the nasty posts, calling them directly to task for their misbehavior. (As in “John Doe, you are no Christian if you behave this way” instead of “Jessica, John Doe is no Christian…”)

       Apparently, it’s more important for you to convince Jessica that the meanies aren’t Christian, than it is for you to convince–and correct–the meanies! But I’d ask you to please, police your own ranks. You might actually head off some of the hate spew if you do so.

       
       
340. on February 20, 2012 at 5:05 pm | Reply Jake

     You look like a muslum to me, most likely gay or transgendered too.

     
     
341. on February 21, 2012 at 1:30 am | Reply John

     Atheist Prayer

     I pray to myself,

     I grant myself each day the desire
     To do my best, to grow mentally
     And morally as well as physically.
     I will to be kind and helpful to my
     Classmates and teachers. I will to be
     Honest with myself as well as
     With others. I help me to be a good
     Sport and smile when I lose as
     Well as when I win. I teach me the
     Value of true friendship. I help me
     Always to conduct myself so as
     to bring credit to Cranston High
     School West.

     Amen to Self

     You are free to say in your heart “There is no God”

     But if you do look for a religion, there are only two types:

     Type One
     One that says we have an alien problem that is to be resolved with an inner solution

     Type Two
     One that says we have an inner problem that demands an alien solution

     
     
342. on February 21, 2012 at 8:21 am | Reply Verl Brown

     God Still loves you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

     
     
343. on February 21, 2012 at 8:38 am | Reply Mark Leachman

     Good luck to you. The position of truth you take is a difficult one.

     I remember it being hard to tell my son that there was no Santa when it was time to do, but it needed to be done.

     Keep logic alive.

     
     
344. on February 21, 2012 at 8:45 am | Reply Christian Romney

     Jessica,

     Reading that Facebook comment thread was disheartening in the extreme. It’s shameful to think that one can make it into (and out of!) high school without understanding the basic principles on which the country was founded–starting with the establishment clause of the First Amendment. It’s utterly unthinkable that a State Representative should be equally ignorant of the law. Unfortunately, this seems to be par for the course. Remember this woman’s bid for a Senate seat in Delaware? http://youtu.be/miwSljJAzqg

     But people like you renew one’s hope that someone is still paying attention in civics class. Good on you for being a thoughtful, polite, intelligent and courageous young woman. Despite all the nasty name-calling, you kept taking the high road while the religious posters put their hypocrisy on display.

     Thanks for standing up for your (and my) rights!

     
     
345. on February 21, 2012 at 1:29 pm | Reply Al

     Trying to argue with a brain washed Christian goes no where. They will not listen to reason or the law.

     
     
346. on February 21, 2012 at 5:17 pm | Reply Adrian Pountney

     Thank you Jessica for putting up with all this crap. The sooner we find a true separation of Church and State the better. The battle is ugly now because Christians fell their control slipping away. It is sad to see how bitter people become when they feel their organized religion is under attack. I am not a Christian, but I love the message of non-judgmental peace and love that Jesus preached. That message seems to be absent in many Christian churches. To quote Ghandi, “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”

     
     
347. on February 21, 2012 at 5:23 pm | Reply Jake

     Aww look, the pathetic little attention whore even has her own website.
     What a pathetic 16yo piece of shit.
     I hope you get gang raped by a pack of thugs and they shove a bible down your throat while you laying there dieing.
     FUCKING UGLY, WORTHLESS WHORE

     
     
     • on February 21, 2012 at 8:17 pm | Reply SteveInCO

       Wow, what an excellent Christian you are. I hope you explain to all those other Christians WHO AGREE WITH WHAT JESSICA DID, or maybe just think maybe you shouldn’t treat people this way, and explain to them the error of their ways.

       
       
       • on February 21, 2012 at 9:13 pm | Reply SteveInCO

         (That is known as sarcasm, by the way.)

         In earnest, your response is no better than one a Muslim would make.

         
         
     • on February 22, 2012 at 10:32 am | Reply Gaude

       I said: You shall love everybody.

       The Humans the closer to it are the ones you call “degenerated”.

       
       
     • on February 26, 2012 at 4:48 pm | Reply Michael

       Yeah, Jake.

       And I guess you’d be among the first to jump her and do her, as your “good” Christian brothers in the Crusades did to Jews, Moslems, and Greek Orthodox Christians…

       We all hate most what we most are like.

       
       
     • on March 27, 2012 at 2:37 am | Reply Blake

       Before i say what i want to say let me say something else . If you insist on insulting Jessica, please at least try to be accurate. I have seen no evidence to the affect that she sleeps with people for money. I think you should at least try to use words that are true. For example: Jake, you are an ignorant, conceited, hypocritical bigot that knows nothing of the very country he lives in. You try on me now. Go read the things i have posted elsewhere here and try to insult me. I will be happy to tell you how you are right or how you are wrong. But please don’t insult Jessica, she has gotten enough of that from other hateful people. Insult me instead.

       I just have to ask:

       What is wrong with being a “whore”? Sure it has bad context in our society. But what is honestly wrong with someone treating sex casually? Or even using sex to get money? I am sure i can already guess, more or less, what some people will say to this, if they actually respond to it at all.

       
       
348. on February 21, 2012 at 10:40 pm | Reply Keenan

     Wow, Tom’s a tool.

     
     
349. on February 22, 2012 at 2:41 am | Reply HCS

     Jessica is wrong. There is a God who has revealed Himself to us through general revelation, i.e.nature, and special revelation, namely Jesus Christ, who rose from the dead and was seen by over five hundred eye-witnesses. However, the name-calling and disrespect shown toward her can hardly be God-pleasing. If you are a follower of Christ, pray that the Holy Spirit will convict her of the truth, for this is God’s desire for all who do not know Jesus as Savior.

     
     
     • on February 22, 2012 at 7:13 am | Reply Rob

       Were these five-hundred witnesses ever mentioned outside of the bible? No.
       Was Jesus ever mentioned outside the bible? No.
       Was anyone fitting his description mentioned outside the bible? No.
       Has the basic story of Jesus (son of god, born to virgin, executed and raised from the dead) ever been used before? Yes on many occasions by many cultures thousands of years before hand.
       Jesus Christ is a fictional character in a fantasy book? Yes.

       
       
350. on February 22, 2012 at 9:55 am | Reply HCS

     There are few serious scholars today who deny the historicity of Jesus. The evidence is overwhelming. If you are a serious inquirer and truth-seeker and not simply a God-hater, I would suggest you check out a book such as “Evidence That Demands A Verdict” by Josh McDowell. It is worth your time, for what you believe about Jesus determines where you will spend eternity. The Bible itself says, “The fool says in his heart, ‘There is no God.’” Try reading the New Testament, starting with The Gospel of John, asking God, “if You’re real, speak to my heart through this Word.” Be sincere in your quest and see what happens. You have nothing to lose and it might just change your life forever. Yes, it’s a challenge, but a reasonable one considering what is at stake.

     
     
     • on February 22, 2012 at 2:24 pm | Reply wright1

       Pascal’s Wager is not a persuasive argument. How do you know your beliefs are the correct ones? Christianity’s core beliefs have no more backing them up than those of any other major religion.

       I was a Christian for some 15 years. I didn’t lose my faith willingly: when I realized it was slipping away I prayed again and again to have it restored. In the end, the only voice I heard was my own, echoing off the walls of my mind. And I realized that was all that there had ever been.

       No god… but no hell. No eternal life… but an increased appreciation for the only one I’ll ever have. No hordes of helpful angels… but dozens of human beings I love and appreciate, and who have done far more for me than any invisible, undetectable being.

       
       
     • on February 22, 2012 at 4:47 pm | Reply Rob

       The evidence is not overwhelming. The bible itself was written decades after Jesus apparently died, no writings appeared during the time he was alive. And any external reference to him are only cited after the early bible was written, and some were found to be forgeries by the church.

       I have read the bible, its a wonderful story, but frankly I have been more moved and inspired by other fantasy books.
       God did not write the bible, it was written by many different men over a few decades (centuries for some chapters). Many of these accounts contradict one another, and some of the chapters were written by people claiming to be someone they were not.

       Josh McDowell is very biased and (apart from the Jesus sections) are identical to the arguments from Muslims regarding the Quran. None of his arguments regarding Jesus are conclusive, and there is a lot of counter arguments from Wells, Lardner, Scheidweiler and many others.

       
       
351. on February 22, 2012 at 3:21 pm | Reply Ryan

     Jessica, you rock. Heading over now to buy my Evil Little Thing t-shirt. Thank you for being a voice of reason in this world.

     
     
352. on February 23, 2012 at 1:49 am | Reply Atish Bhana

     Firstly, well done Jessica – you’re a good example even to youths in South Africa. There are alot of people here (christians and atheists) whose logic is very flawed.

     Jessica’s action isnt right because ” its the law ” and its not wrong because ” its a tradition “. The swatstika was a symbol of Hitler’s Germany – but they don’t use it anymore partly because of the anti-semitism. So, certain traditions can be dispensed with.

     The “its the law” argument is also flawed since the law can be wrong too [Slavery ftw ]. As a US history buff, I have read alot about the US constitution and its amendments and I realise there is good reasons for the language it contains. Seperation of ‘church’ and state is meant to protect freedom of religion – because if muslims were the majority of the government and the law didnt exist, then christians would be persecuted non-stop.

     So, a neutral government is the most desirable. The school is clearly a government institution. Because all people of all religions (incl hinduism, bhuddism, judaism, etc..) and non-religions (FSM) have paid taxes – govt cannot favour 1 group over the other.

     I don’t wonder what kind of reaction would we get from cranston had jessica been a jew [clearly anti semitism] or a muslim.

     
     
353. on February 24, 2012 at 2:18 pm | Reply Don

     I’m 61 years old. When I was 7 I decided I wanted to go to church. My parents were not religious at all and the subject of religion was never discussed at the dinner table because that, along with race and politics, just caused arguments. We didn’t even own a bible! There was a Christian church 1/2 block from our house on the same side of the street so my Mom had no problem with me going by myself. That Sunday dressed in my best clothes, bow tie and all, and a dime in my pocket for the collection plate I went to church for the first time. Now, this is 1957 and the hot topic of the day was how a new form of music called rock and roll was sweeping the nation and corrupting our young people. The sermon that day was on the evils of rock and roll. For an hour I listened to a raving maniac scream at the top of his lungs about how I was going to burn in hell because I listened to rock and roll music! That’s pretty scary stuff for a 7 year old. Today we have Christian rock and roll. If you had proposed that idea in 1957 you would have been stoned to death, burned at the stake! After the sermon I was asked if I would like to attend Sunday school. Sure, why not? On the first day of school we started from the beginning, old testament, Genesis. I learned that God made the world in 7 days, the plants, the critters, the water, all was good blah, blah, blah. Then we went on to the garden of Eden, Adam and Eve, snakes, apples and more blah blah blah. Then the teacher asked if there were any Questions? That Saturday my Dad had taken us all to the museum of natural history in downtown L.A. where I saw just oodles of dinosaur bones so the question I asked was “where are all the dinosaurs? I was told that they didn’t really exist that they were a hoax pulled on us by the scientific community! Really? Wow! They sure went through a lot of trouble to pull that one off! So, what did I learn from my early and brief church experience? That Christians are Hippocrates and liars. They tell you not to do certain things and then they turn right around and do it anyway. They bend and twist the truth until it suits them and their purposes.

     
     
354. on February 25, 2012 at 1:10 pm | Reply Tugs N McCowan

     I really can’t believe that Tom Bauman (or A Mambo Nut fogive the pun) writes out all those tired creationist cliches. They have been debunked years ago.
     The next time someone brings up the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics argument, ask them about the other three Laws of Thermodynamics.

     
     
355. on February 26, 2012 at 4:55 pm | Reply Michael

     Thanks to Steve and Rob I have carried on reading with an open mind.

     Just read two excellent books, 1493 and The Columbian Exchange, which show the changes in the world following Columbus’ expeditions.

     They note the incredible irony that even though Columbus was an ardent Catholic and his voyages were blessed by many Spanish clerics, the discoveries of the New World with its totally different flora and fauna from the Old World made many Christian theologians question Biblical literalism especially with regard to the Flood of Noah.

     If there had been a single universal flood with all animal life spared on the Ark, how come so many different life forms were found scattered across the globe. And how did the animals get from Iraq/Turkey across oceans to the Americas and Australia?

     Here’s a good question from an atheist friend: how did Noah feed the carnivores on the ark for a year? Did they all eat hay….

     Anyway I am questioning many things. And if the Flood was not literal, then why did Jesus the great truth sayer speak of it and of Adam and Eve???

     Could it all be an early form of propoganda and mind control???

     
     
     • on February 26, 2012 at 7:28 pm | Reply Rob

       Well SteveInCO, looks like we converted one, probably the most unlikely one, saved his soul n all that jazz. Amen. lol

       Although… Michael, you said “we want god”, you can actually have spirituality and universes and everything, without a god.

       The adam and eve story is actually much older than the old testament. And it would have been a reasonable explanation at the time, considering people knew basically nothing. Most people would have believed it, except for a few guys saying “wait a minute.. where the f’ck did this god come from?”.

       If the flood is not literal, and adam and eve are not literal, then what makes anyone think the story of jesus is literal?

       
       
356. on February 26, 2012 at 5:01 pm | Reply Michael

     I think what we all need is a form of spirituality divorced from the ethnocentric, xenophobic, and anthropomorphic legends of the Bible.

     We need a new form of spirituality for those of us not impressed by Judeo-Christian hypocrisy.

     Ie, we want God without all the nasty theological and historical baggage…

     
     
     • on February 26, 2012 at 11:19 pm | Reply SteveInCO

       I suppose at this point you might check into some form of deism to see if it fits the bill. (It’s hard, when dealing with abstract concepts like “spiritualism” or even “god,” to be sure you and the person you are talking to are even talking about the same thing! So I make this suggestion hoping I understood you correctly.)

       Best of luck.

       
       
357. on February 27, 2012 at 10:31 am | Reply Michael

     check out this story about Jessica on Counterpunch website: http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/02/24/freedom-from-religion/

     
     
358. on February 27, 2012 at 10:43 am | Reply Michael

     i’m telling everyone i gave up Jesus for Lent.

     (of course can you give up that which never existed?)

     new names for Jews 4 Jesus: Jokers 4 Jesus and Creeps 4 Christ.

     if Christians are “fools 4 Christ” then how come they have to go to divinity school to be trained? can’t they just be uncredentialed fools? or are they fools in that they spend time and money to become certified fools? and does PhD mean Doctor of Phoolishness?

     the Bible is just an early form of mass media propaganda and mind control.

     some people need to exploit and some need to be controlled. the Bible has something for everyone: sadists and masochists alike.

     we need a form of spirituality that is divorced from the racist, ethnocentric, xenophobic, genocidal Bible.

     and even Richard Dawkins probably could agree with that.

     
     
359. on February 27, 2012 at 2:06 pm | Reply Michael

     REASONS FOR REJECTING CHRISTIANITY

     1. The NT is riddled with textual errors and contradictions. It has been transcribed with nowhere near the accuracy of the Jewish Tenach. A book of fools by fools for fools.

     2. Jesus’ early followers were all unlettered and uneducated men. How did they manage to write eloquent testimonials called the “Gospels”? Obviously these have been written by church officials who pretended they are the works of fisherman and others.

     3. Why was Jesus so selective about performing his “miracles”? In a world of such great need, why did he rarely heal, deliver and resurrect people? Obviously these accounts are for credulous and gullible masses.

     4. Why are Christians today so arrogant about saving others? If the spiritual destiny of the world truly depends on Christians evangelizing, why do so few do it? And why do those who do it do it so reluctantly and in such a limited way? For example, in the famous case of David Wilkerson reaching out to “save” Nicky Cruz, a feared NY street gang leader, why did Wilkerson not continue this work and instead revert to a more normal ministry? How did he know that Nicky Cruz was the only gang member worthy of being rescued?

     5. Why do Christians speak of love but act with hatred and prejudice? Why do they almost invariably support wars even between Christian nations? Why did German churches almost unanimously support Hitler?

     6. Why do Christians spend time and money on recreational activities, golfing, cruise ships etc? If the fate of the world rests on their shoulders, why do they take so much time off to indulge in selfish pleasure pursuits?

     7. Jesus spoke of Noah’s Flood and Adam and Eve as though they are actual events when it seems from the weight of scientific evidence that they are only parables and metaphors.

     
     
360. on February 27, 2012 at 2:08 pm | Reply Michael

     What happens when Christocrites attain political power:

     counterpunch * org/2012/02/24/time-on-the-cross-with-rick-santorum/

     Time on the Cross With Rick Santorum
     by ALEXANDER COCKBURN
     Surely Rick Santorum is the most fanatical Christian to run for the Republican nomination in the modern era, maybe any era. Next to him Pat Robertson, billionaire founder of the Christian Broadcasting Network, who ran for the nomination in 1988, has the tolerant, glassy-eyed bonhomie of the late Dean Martin. Robertson has always been in show business. Four years ago we had Mike Huckabee, the evangelist and former governor of Arkansas, one of the boys, shacked up with Mrs Huckabee in his doublewide on the grounds of the Arkansas gubernatorial mansion. He has always been in show business too.
     But with Santorum – a conservative Roman Catholic and member of Opus Dei – there’s a truly manic edge to his religious pronouncements and activities. It was Santorum and Mrs S, don’t forget, who took their still-born baby home from the hospital and laid it among their living tots, telling them, “he’s with the angels now,” an episode Mrs Santorum later recorded in a memoir.
     Santorum doesn’t believe in the right to privacy. Not that Obama has any qualms about taps on your phone and powers of arbitrary arrest, but he probably doesn’t care too much about whatever human combos are being tried out in the bedroom. Santorum frets 24/7 about beastliness and unnatural acts, and yearns to restore full rights to snoops to kick down the motel door, twitch aside the blankets and haul couples off for all manner of moral abominations.
     Contraception in Santorum’s opinion is “a license to do things in a sexual realm that is counter to how things are supposed to be”. Pre-natal testing is also a no-no for Santorum, father of eight.
 
In 2003 Santorum said he favored having laws against polygamy, adultery, sodomy, and other actions “antithetical to a healthy, stable, traditional family”. The possibility of bestiality in today’s licentious times bothers him a lot — “man on dog,” as he famously put it on a talk show. Not for him the possibility of abortion in cases of rape: “I believe and I think that the right approach is to accept this horribly created, in the sense of rape, but nevertheless, in a very broken way, a gift of human life, and accept what God is giving to you.”
     Santorum was two when the Sixties began. But like so many cultural conservatives he believes to the bottom of his soul that everything went to hell when the love generation came of age: “Woodstock is the great American orgy. This is who the Democratic Party has become. They have become the party of Woodstock. They prey upon our most basic primal lusts, and that’s sex. And the whole abortion culture, it’s not about life. It’s about sexual freedom. That’s what it’s about. Homosexuality. It’s about sexual freedom.”
     In 2008 he gave a speech in which he ventured that “Satan has his sights on the United States of America. Satan is attacking the great institutions of America, using those great vices of pride, vanity and sensuality as the root to attack all of the strong plants that have so deeply rooted in the American tradition.”
     Santorum traces Satan’s hoofprints back to the Enlightenment and the French Revolution. Just the other day he told an audience: “They are taking faith and crushing it. Why? Why? When you marginalize faith in America, when you remove the pillar of God-given rights, then what’s left is the French Revolution. What’s left are no unalienable rights, what’s left is a government that will tell you who you are, what you’ll do and when you’ll do it. What’s left in France became the guillotine. Ladies and gentlemen, we’re a long way from that, but if we do follow the path of President Obama and his overt hostility to faith in America, then we are headed down that road.”
     The whole diatribe is thrilling, but utterly ludicrous, not least because it was the revolution that promulgated the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen, which defined individual and collective rights for all men.
     Why is a guy like this currently running neck-and-neck with Mitt Romney for the Republican nomination? The usual maps drawn by political experts stipulate that at some point in the prolonged nomination battle the candidate has to shed the gothick nuttiness and over-the-topness that got him traction in the early primaries and reach out to the independents without whose support no presidential bid can succeed.
     There’s zero sign that Santorum is of any disposition to do this. So why does he turn out to be the last man standing in the path of the Mormon billionaire Mitt Romney in the battle for the nomination?
     First and foremost, he’s not Mitt Romney.
     Candidates, now long forgotten, like Herman Cain, or still vaguely remembered like the fading Newt Gingrich, fared well with this simple asset. Blue-collar Americans in the old industrial states don’t care for Romney, who began life as a rich kid and then became a lot richer by buying up businesses, putting them on a “sound footing” (fire half the work force), selling them and moving on.
     So Santorum can work the blue-collar vote with a few populist rhetorical gestures.. He can also work the racist, anti-Obama vote by hinting that the president is driven by a non-Christian, environmentalist, New Age, putatively Satanist agenda. A few days ago Santorum declared that Obama’s actions are motivated by “some phony theology, not a theology based on the Bible….The president has reached a new low in this country’s history of oppressing religious freedom that we have never seen before. If he doesn’t want to call his imposition of his values a theology that’s fine.”Then he added a day later by way of clarification that he understands Obama is a Christian, but that the president was misinterpreting God’s truth.
     After the Florida primary everyone thought Santorum was toast and Romney coasting to the crown. Then Santorum won three fairly insignificant contests in Colorado, Missouri and Minnesota. A billionaire, Foster Friess, gave his campaign a huge wad of money and he was on his way again.
     Suddenly Romney was fighting for his life in Michigan (next Tuesday’s primary), where he was born and where his father was governor. Polls show Santorum ahead, both in Michigan and nationally, and also with a slightly better chance than Romney of beating Obama in November, though the president leads both of them by around four to six points.
     The very latest poll, taken as Romney has desperately poured money into a fresh negative ad campaign against Santorum, shows the Mormon two points ahead in Michigan – no small achievement since Romney has denounced the bailout initiated by George Bush and ratified by Obama that saved GM and Chrysler, both companies now doing well and hiring thousands in a stricken state. In a lower key, Santorum also denounces the bailout, which shows just how insane these Republicans are.
     On Wednesday night, in a debate in Arizona, where he has a decent lead, Romney was pronounced the clear winner, not least because he had Ron Paul on Santorum’s other side, thumping him for being a Washington insider and phony. It would be folly to predict what will happen next Tuesday night. If Santorum prospers, a huge disaster for the Republicans looms in November, far beyond even the Goldwater debacle of 1964. Don’t believe the talk about a brokered convention and someone like Jeb Bush or Governor Chris Christie of New Jersey parachuted in by the Republican establishment.
     These are cheering days for the Obama campaign.
     Alexander Cockburncan be reached at alexandercockburn@asis.com

     
     
361. on February 27, 2012 at 2:10 pm | Reply Michael

     see these links for the impossible logistics of the biblical exodus account:

     kubik * org/lighter/exodus.htm
     messianicseder * com/logistics * html
     tektonics * org/af/exoduslogistics * html

     
     
362. on February 27, 2012 at 2:12 pm | Reply Michael

     Regarding “Time on the Cross With Rick Santorum
     by ALEXANDER COCKBURN”:

     I don’t respect Cockburn because he has never written about 9-11 truth and instead mocks truthers.

     But on the dangers of Santorum his views are sharp…

     
     
363. on February 28, 2012 at 10:36 am | Reply Michael

     REASONS FOR DOUBTING THE VERACITY OF THE TENACH
     1. Mankind has existed far longer than the 6000 years presented in the Torah. Adam and Eve cannot be the “first humans”. The story about their eating from the “tree of knowledge” is just a parable about man being the only creature cognizant of his own mortality. No “sin” caused this mortality, since death has always reigned on our beautiful but tragic planet. The original state of innocence depicted in the Genesis story of the Garden of Eden is a myth pure and simple.
     2. The earth’s age is vastly greater than the 6000 years implied in Genesis. And there is no evidence whatsoever that a huge flood occurred 4500 years ago according to the Biblical chronology. The diversity and differentiation of plants and animals across the continents defies the simplicity of the Noah’s Ark story, which must be seen as a parable. Noah’s Flood, if it occurred at all, was not global.
     3. The logistical problems associated with the alleged exodus of 3 million Hebrew slaves from Egypt across the Sinai wilderness defy rational explanation and suggest that this emotive story is a parable and largely mythical. See these links for more:
     kubik.org/lighter/exodus.htm – messianicseder.com/logistics.html – tektonics.org/af/exoduslogistics.html

     4. The account of Joshua’s “holy genocide” against the native Canaanite population of the Holy Land is probably mythical and certainly morally repugnant.
     5. The general tenor of the Tenach stories reflects xenophobia, racism, intolerance, paranoia, deceit, and incredulity.

     
     
364. on February 29, 2012 at 1:32 am | Reply AaronL37

     I can not believe I just read this entire page. All I got was:

     Christians arguing that some Christians are not Christians.

     Christians and Atheists arguing.

     Atheists arguing with each other.

     and

     A Muslim slips in with a video and everyone is probably giggling to themselves over how nonsensical it was.

     According to some of the believers here they think majority rules. How many of you Christians would feel fine sending your kid to a public school in Utah with a banner of Joesph Smith dressed in Morman underpants with the slogan “Invisible Golden Tablets Are The Only Truth”? Better yet how would you; (besides the Muslim guy)… feel if you moved to a district of a big city with a huge population of Muslims and the prophet Mohammed was the mascot. Your kids schools logo would be a piece of paper with nothing on it. And down the hall their are quotes from the Qur’an in English telling Muslims to distrust the infidel. Yea now we are all infidels (besides the Muslim guy). It comes down to this. People of faith are so insecure about their own faiths that in order to feel good about themselves everyone else has to believe it to. You don’t have to believe me on the importance of separation of Church and State. Do some reading and you will find out that the entire movement of keeping religion out of school started with Protestants not wanting Catholic prayers taught in their school. We have history books for this reason… so we dont repeat things.

     
     
365. on March 1, 2012 at 6:57 pm | Reply Wilby Inebriated

     for god so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever would believe in him, would believe in anything…

     i applaud your defense of logic, reason and the law of the land jessica.

     
     
366. on March 2, 2012 at 1:27 am | Reply bob

     Jessica, I admire your courage. Hang in there.

     
     
367. on March 3, 2012 at 8:15 pm | Reply Jeremy

     You are an inspiring figure, Jessica. Best of luck to you.

     
     
368. on March 4, 2012 at 1:54 am | Reply Keith Bowden

     You’re such an inspiration, Jessica, and very brave. Hang in there and thank you for everything you’ve done. You’re going to have an amazing life.

     
     
369. on March 6, 2012 at 1:14 pm | Reply Pinky

     I was once where you are today.
     I can tell you many people call themselves Christians, but if they truly follow Jesus the Christ teachings their message to you would show in action and in words His teachings.

     Know God loves you so very very very much! He gave His son – His only son so that you may spend eternity with Him. It is His desire from the beginning of humankind that all come to Him and that NONE should perish, but have eternal life through Jesus the Christ. Love …..unconditional love…..

     
     
     • on March 7, 2012 at 12:28 am | Reply wright1

       Sure, unconditional. Except for that little “suffer eternally for not believing and subjugating yourself to me” clause.

       
       
370. on March 7, 2012 at 7:00 am | Reply A. Jensen

     This is REALLY scary to me – it thoroughly shakes the core foundation of what I thought America was all about…

     I had no idea that this type of witch hunts were going on in America. I had no idea that Christianity had turned so fanatical, and so hateful, in the country I once considered the most freedom-loving in the world.

     This behavior, towards a school girl no less, is a disgrace to US history, the US Constitution, and the US ancestors. This isn’t about religion, it’s about freedom of speech.

     If the US Christian community has come to this, I fear for the voices of love, moderation and tolerance in USA, and by extension, the rest of the world which often follows its example.

     Nuclear weapons on American soil sure don’t seem like a good idea anymore. Some of the writing here is what I would except out of a dogmatist in Iran or Saudi Arabia. What is happening to you guys????

     
     
371. on March 7, 2012 at 11:13 am | Reply parent

     I am a parent. I have grown up in Public Schools. The first thing is none of you have a understanding of the meaning of separation of church and state! When our founding fathers founded America, they found it on the principals of the Bible. You can go back and study your history and you will see this. One thing they decided was that no king, president or government should be able to tell them how to worship! Meaning= there would be no state religion that was forced on the people. Having a banner that was a gift from students is not a state ordered or school ordered religion. There was a project that a young elementary school student had to do, and in the project it was how do you save the world. He drew a world and put Jesus on the top of it. They took his poster down, so as not to offend anyone. Well the Supreme Court said that he was not promoting school religion, that was his theory as to how to save the world, and the school had to put it back up. Most of the things that you guys are spouting have come from your parents! Its the same with racial issues and so forth, parents in grain in their children the hates and issues that they have. I am a Christian I go to church and I have raised my children in church, but they have free will to decide what they will do, I dont hate anyone. I pray for those who have a warped idea of things. I can tell you I didnt come from a Monkey, if people evolved from monkeys then you would still see naked people walking out of jungles, And to the comments that there is nothing to refute Evolution, you are going on the basis of what evolutionist have taught. Everyday in Israel and other middle eastern countries they are finding things to prove the Bible. Tablets, tombs, pottery, the Ark is a big find, there is so much to prove the Bible and its authority. Not to mention if you go into a museum and study a dinosaur fossil. You will notice that some of the bones do not quite fit, thats because there are no full dinosaurs found in the united states or the world. There are only parts and they have pieced them together, would explain a large flood killing them fast and burying them. Either way there will always be those who differ and fight over these things. But name calling, and arguing wont change any of the true facts. Prayer is a powerful thing. We have a child, that the doctors have said twice would not make it in our church. She has indured hours and hours of test, hospital stays, etc. drugs. The last time she was given 48 hours. That was 6 weeks ago. She is defying everything the doctors have said, even the doctors have said there is no way this child can be alive, and most of them one being a Muslim have said that there is a higher power that is guiding this child and letting her live. Mother Nature has nothing to do with it! I wish you all well, and pray that things work out for you. I am proud to say that I will be standing in the end with the God who created it all!

     
     
     • on March 7, 2012 at 6:42 pm | Reply Rob

       “I pray for those who have a warped idea of things. I can tell you I didnt come from a Monkey, if people evolved from monkeys then you would still see naked people walking out of jungles, And to the comments that there is nothing to refute Evolution, you are going on the basis of what evolutionist have taught. Everyday in Israel and other middle eastern countries they are finding things to prove the Bible. Tablets, tombs, pottery, the Ark is a big find, there is so much to prove the Bible and its authority. Not to mention if you go into a museum and study a dinosaur fossil. You will notice that some of the bones do not quite fit, thats because there are no full dinosaurs found in the united states or the world. There are only parts and they have pieced them together, would explain a large flood killing them fast and burying them”

       Could you please pray for yourself because you have a very warped idea on things.

       I can tell you you did come from a monkey, your monkey ancestor lived 25 million years ago, you even have a tail to prove it (among other evidence from molecular science and fossils). It takes 25 million years and 2 million generations to slowly change to humans, that is why you do not see naked people walking out of jungles.
       Of course we get our information from evolutionary biologists as they are the only ones researching it, no one else can give us this information.
       Israeli archeologists have demonstrated that the exodus was a myth, other archeological discoveries suggest the people who wrote the bible knew a little about history, not that Jesus existed.
       What Ark are you talking about? Noah’s Ark? The Ark of the covenant? Neither of these have been found, so what Ark exactly are you talking about?

       There are no complete dinosaur finds (that I know of), but there are near complete discoveries, there are large numbers of similar fossils in the same area, and well over a thousand different dinosaurs found. They do piece them together using the strictest paleontological methods, they compare and classify the bones. They are not just guessing, it is very often a slow process of comparisons, analysis, and discussion, in much they same way they classify living species.

       It would not explain a large flood as that would leave them all dead and buried at the same time, and since some of them are 65 million years old and others are 200 million years old, it does not fit. If by large flood you mean Noah’s flood, you are also saying that humans lived during this flood and were also killed off due to their wicked ways (it is a pity the dinosaurs had to suffer Gods’ murderous destruction when they did nothing wrong). However, no humans have been found with dinosaurs as there is a gap of 65 million years. Human fossils (and similar humanoid species) are only found in the uppermost strata, dinosaurs are not.

       If you are a parent, I feel sorry for your children. Perhaps public schools have become higher quality since you went, otherwise you should send your children to a private school to get a real education.

       
       
     • on March 10, 2012 at 5:04 am | Reply SteveInCO

       “When our founding fathers founded America, they found it on the principals of the Bible. ”

       Bullshit. I know that’s a strong word, but I am sick of this lie, fed to many well-meaning but unsuspecting Christians by liar demagogues.

       You will not find the word God in the Constitution. You will not find mention of the Bible. You will not find an assertion that this is a Christian nation. You will not find any mention of Jesus Christ. The ONLY thing you will find is “In the year of our Lord” as part of the _date_ the document was signed–it has no more significance than the days of the week being named after pagan gods. You WILL find, in Article Six of the original constitution, that no one can be denied public office on account of their religious beliefs or lack thereof; they cannot be required to hold a specific set of beliefs. Surely if the constitution were meant to be a Christian document, you would see those words and you would see a requirement that office holders be Christian… and that is exactly what you do NOT see.

       References to God in the Declaration of Independence all are consistent with deism, not Christianity.

       I would like to ask that you go to whoever fed you this line of bullcrap and tell them they lie.

       
       
372. on March 7, 2012 at 2:22 pm | Reply karen

     You are nothing but a spoiled rotten daddy’s
     little girl! Someone what had city property defaced
     because it offened you! Your and your daddy
     should pay for this! But wait you must not use
     “real” money as it say “In God we Trust” on all
     the paper bills! So just how do you pay for all your
     things and do you also carry money around
     with you?
     Now, you offend me so if I went to school with you or
     lived near you, (thank-God I do not) could I have you
     and your daddy removed because you both offend me?
     hope both of you burn in hell!

     
     
     • on March 7, 2012 at 6:53 pm | Reply Rob

       So you admit it is city property. And the prayer was clearly christian. Separation of church and state. Simple.

       If you cannot understand this, then you are simple.

       
       
     • on March 9, 2012 at 3:48 am | Reply wright1

       “Someone what had city property defaced
       because it offened you!”

       Defaced? As Rob said, are you so simple as to not understand the difference between having an illegal endorsement of religion removed from a public setting, and vandalism?

       Your rant does your religion no favors.

       
       
     • on March 9, 2012 at 12:27 pm | Reply Tugs N McCowan

       Because “In God We Trust” is printed in American money since the 1950s is proof that there is a Christian god?

       You want a child and her parents to be tortured by your god because they offended you?

       
       
       • on March 10, 2012 at 4:58 am | Reply SteveInCO

         Technically, some US money printed even as late as the Kennedy administration still did not have In God We Trust on it. The dates on the bills will read 1950 or 1953 but they bear the signature of C Douglas Dillon, Kennedy’s Treasury Secretary, so they were printed 1961 or later. (They don’t change dates on bills as often; there are silver certificates dated _1935_ that have Dillon’s signature on them… and no motto!)

         
         
     • on March 10, 2012 at 5:09 am | Reply SteveInCO

       Your logic puzzles me. Because someone took it upon themselves to print “In God We Trust” on our money (a process that started in 1864 and ended in the mid 1960s), it somehow belongs to God now? An atheist isn’t allowed to touch it? What a crock!

       What happened to “Render unto Caesar”?

       Does this mean the Secretary of the Treasury owns all the money? His name appears on every bill.

       But of course the real answer is that I hear this talking point repeated over and over again, so some clown behind a pulpit is just feeding it to people.

       
       
373. on March 9, 2012 at 2:08 pm | Reply Hal J.

     Jessica, I do have a question for you. Were you required to read that banner daily? Was anyone required to recite it? Was anyone required to acknowledge it at all during school? I can understand you’re being an atheist, I am as well, but this was a gift from the first graduating class from that school. This was not something that was forced onto anyone, it was a simple gift from another era. Why could you not see that and let it go? You need to pick your fights Jessica and this should not have been one of them. You give atheists like myself a bad rep for this. This was only a gift….

     
     
     • on March 10, 2012 at 5:18 am | Reply SteveInCO

       It looks like the school promoting/endorsing religious belief. One doesn’t have to be required to recite it; it’s still there, it still bears the imprimatur of the authorities simply by being there. That’s the problem.

       Yes it was a gift. Jessica offered a compromise, a way not to wreck the gift.

       Jessica went to the school board before suing and suggested they remove “Our Heavenly Father” and “Amen” (I don’t know if she also suggested removing “School Prayer”). That would have brought the banner up to constitutional snuff, and allowed the fine language about learning to be good sports to remain up on the wall.

       The school board flatly refused. Apparently the appeal to the Christian god was more important to them than the content of the message.

       Only then, with the school board refusing to abide by the Constitution, did Jessica bring the suit.

       
       
374. on March 9, 2012 at 4:52 pm | Reply G

     Love this wordpress website! XD
     Anyways I am cristiano and well i respect all personas from Jews to muslims to atheists to santa muerte followers. But i dont know why its such a big deal having that poster up on the school. Did they force you to read it? Or did you have to memorize it? or like why was it such a big deal? Just want to know thanks =D

     
     
     • on March 10, 2012 at 5:16 am | Reply SteveInCO

       Hmm… another person with the “were you required to read it? If not what’s the problem” meme. Must be the new talking point being fed to people from some pulpit somewhere.

       So I’ll repeat what I said to the last one:

       It looks like the school promoting/endorsing religious belief. One doesn’t have to be required to recite it; it’s still there, it still bears the imprimatur of the authorities simply by being there. That’s the problem.

       Yes it was a gift. Jessica offered a compromise, a way not to wreck the gift.

       Jessica went to the school board before suing and suggested they remove “Our Heavenly Father” and “Amen” (I don’t know if she also suggested removing “School Prayer”). That would have brought the banner up to constitutional snuff, and allowed the fine language about learning to be good sports to remain up on the wall.

       The school board flatly refused. Apparently the appeal to the Christian god was more important to them than the content of the message.

       Only then, with the school board refusing to abide by the Constitution, did Jessica bring the suit.

       
       
375. on March 9, 2012 at 4:53 pm | Reply bobbybsnr

     Love this wordpress website! XD
     Anyways I am cristiano and well i respect all personas from Jews to muslims to atheists to santa muerte followers. But i dont know why its such a big deal having that poster up on the school. Did they force you to read it? Or did you have to memorize it? or like why was it such a big deal? Or was it just cause you didnt believe it? But you won the case right? Just want to know thanks =D

     
     
     • on March 10, 2012 at 5:17 am | Reply SteveInCO

       Hmm… a THIRD person with “were you required to read it” on the brain. But this time it’s the same exact phrasing as person #2. Well, if they can spam the same thing over and over again on Jessica’s site, so can I. So I’ll repeat what I said to the first one:

       It looks like the school promoting/endorsing religious belief. One doesn’t have to be required to recite it; it’s still there, it still bears the imprimatur of the authorities simply by being there. That’s the problem.

       Yes it was a gift. Jessica offered a compromise, a way not to wreck the gift.

       Jessica went to the school board before suing and suggested they remove “Our Heavenly Father” and “Amen” (I don’t know if she also suggested removing “School Prayer”). That would have brought the banner up to constitutional snuff, and allowed the fine language about learning to be good sports to remain up on the wall.

       The school board flatly refused. Apparently the appeal to the Christian god was more important to them than the content of the message.

       Only then, with the school board refusing to abide by the Constitution, did Jessica bring the suit.

       
       
     • on April 14, 2012 at 1:22 am | Reply Christopher Blackwell

       Bobbybsnr.

       Lets reword that question. What would be the big deal of having a poster on the school wall saying “There is no god”
       “Or there is no god but Allah.”

       Had either of those been the words there would be no argument going on here, the majority of the people would be screaming. Yet there is no real difference just stating a view that you are not required to agree with. No if only Christian sayings are up on the wall, it is suggesting that other sayings are not worthwhile. Do you really want government getting into the question of religion,seeing how badly they do most things.

       Remember what it was like before our revolution. In most Christian countries, the government supported Christianity and Christianity supported the government,no matter how bad it was. The Christian idea at the time was that God put governments in place that to go against the government was going against God.

       So even our Declaration of Independence was revolutionary religious wise , politically and socially.It stated things that no Cristian country of the time believed.It claimed all people were equal,it claimed that government was set up by people and that they had a right to take it down and that god wasn’t involved.

       In our colonies a given denomination was the state chosen version of the religion.If you did not belong to that denomination, it could be difficult to do business and impossible to get into local politics.Our forefathers lived under those restrictions which is why they made sure it could not happen in our constitution.

       Now the fact that Christian could not live up t that high standard for many generations afterward, did not prove our forefathers ideas were wrong, only that later generations were not as noble as our forefathers in their ideals. We are only now getting close to true freedom of religion. The courts did not even deal with religious freedom until after World War II. We certainly never considered the right of Indians to have religious freedom,we never consider the rights of slaves to have religious freedom, and we never gave Jews, and even minority Christians denominations any thought of freedom. So making religious freedom real is only recent, for all of our long claim of believing in religious freedom. Religious freedom has been more myth than reality through out most or Americas history. Much of what we teach in history in school is in fact American Myth rather than any form of factual history. Real history, even our own, is much more complicated and far more interesting than the dull story told in our schools. That is why I continue to read up on historical events the rest of my life. It is fascinating,but I am still not certain how true it is. Why, Well I have lived through the 50s, the 60, the 70s, the 80s the 90s,and most of what people think is history for those times is at best a small part of the story so even recent history is more myth than fact. Few of us that lived through it see it anywhere like what is reported in the media and today’s history books. I think that would be true of any time in history. All that matters to most of us is what affects our own lives. I myself never took part in a demonstration in college, most students did not.I never took part in an anti-war demonstration or ever saw one in person,nor did most people. I never personally saw any of the riots. So like most people I only saw and heard whatever the media decided to tell me, or claim was news.

       I was in the Vietnam War, and most Americans never were,so my opinion is quite different from most Americans.

       There are no good guys in war any war. There are bad guys and worse. Ask the poor civilians caught in the war. More civilians die than soldiers and they get killed by all sides. Ask any Vietnamese victim ,who would you rather be killed, wounded, or molested by, Americans soldiers, North Vietnamese soldiers, South Vietnamese soldiers, Viet Cong? Want to guess the answer? All sides committed atrocities, for that is what war is an atrocity for the civilians caught in it. There is no glory in any war.

       So much of the world that I lived in or took part in was never reported on, but it was every bit as real for my having lived through it.

       What happened in my life continues now. Your view on the world is mostly determined by what the media chooses ot show you. The part you actually experience is but a small part of the world and rarely will there be any record of it made,not considered important,though it was important to you. Otherwise you experience of the world is third hand at best depending on what others choose to tell you. That goes for the internet as well.. In many ways we are not all that different than the man in a village hundreds of years ago. He only heard the stories about the world and had no way to know if what he heard was true or not.

       Sorry to have wandered around so much, one I am old and it is far past my bed time, but my mind always jumps from one thing to another because to me it is all connected and interesting. Everything is part of the overall pattern, nothing exists by itself, even if we humans like to focus on one thing at a time. Nothing actually works that way.

       
       
376. on March 14, 2012 at 7:17 am | Reply Dan

     Dear Jessica
     Your courage of publicly fighting for the health of our civilization means a lot to so many people. You will be an inspiration for many others who will be encouraged to stand for freedom of thought. I am deeply saddened to discover more and more, as times goes by, how ignorant religious people actually are. I realize more and more how their ignorance is affecting our world, our development as a civilization. I am also saddened by their ignorance towards their mother tongue. Even an intermediate English speaker, like me, can observe that.
     Generally, it is saddening to observe people’s ignorance towards the world and their willingness to live in a fairytale, like children, instead of being curious about this world we all live in. Good luck and remember that you are not alone on this planet.

     
     
377. on March 16, 2012 at 11:32 am | Reply Anthony

     Father Evdokimov, who fled the Bolsheviks with his family in 1917, and who survived the Nazi occupation of Paris through World War II, who was an Orthodox theologian and priest, and who still could be friends with persons like Sartre and de Beauvoir, once remarked, in the spirit of confident ecumenism:

     “If it is indeed a good thing to make atheists less certain of the nonexistence of God, it is also good to make the theologians less sure of their own speculation.”

     Abba Dorotheos of Gaza, way back in the 7th Century, cautioned:

     “Before anything else we need humility: a being ready to listen…”

     I am sorry that what you write above is your interpretation of Christian Love, based upon your experiences. When I was your age I suffered far worse examples of Christian judgment and castigation within my own extended family. I support your right and your need to believe in your principles; I do hope you come to realize, however, that not all Christians, just like not all atheists, are the same, think the same, act the same, and tolerate or not in the same fashion. Pax tecum.

     
     
378. on March 16, 2012 at 2:01 pm | Reply Hal J

     SteveInCO, why are you answering instead of Jessica? I would like to hear from her, not you.

     
     
     • on March 16, 2012 at 6:30 pm | Reply Rob

       Jessica has already answered that a few times, at the school committee and at court. The answer is the same as what SteveInCO gave, it is irrelevant that it was a gift. It could have been a gift from god and would still be unconstitutional.

       
       
     • on March 17, 2012 at 12:31 pm | Reply SteveInCO

       I don’t know why Jessica doesn’t seem to spend any time on this blog any more. I do know that a lot of truly vicious and/or jawdroppingly ignorant people (no, I am not including you in their number) come here to attack her, and I am thankful enough for what Jessica did that I am doing what I can to repay it. She had my back earlier, now I’ve got hers. I can only hope that the amount of animosity aimed at her in person is declining.

       Maybe she will choose to answer your question (my doing so does not preclude her doing so), but as Rob has already pointed out, Jessica _has_ answered it in other fora. Furthermore I will point out that it has already been answered in this comment thread dozens of times, albeit not by her personally.

       In point of fact, since about the hundredth comment on this thread no one has actually brought a novel criticism of what Jessica has done, with one exception: a few weeks ago people came here to accuse her of doing it specifically for the recently collected scholarship money. And even that was just a variant of “you just want attention and/or the money from the lawsuit” criticism. (And the lawsuit award was a whopping $25!) On March 9th in fact two other people raised the same question you did (and after you did), not bothering to read your–or each other’s–comments. In fact the latter of the two didn’t even notice (or didn’t care) that the former had already by sheer amazing coincidence, composed the exact same comment.

       
       
379. on March 18, 2012 at 9:39 pm | Reply KattB

     This is for Jessica-I am sorry you seem to have opended Pandoras box.
     Until today I had no idea who you were or your being an atheist.
     For some reason I stumbled on your story. I was released from the hospital today. ( pancreatic cancer ) stage 3.
     Some background— I raised in my family’s religion (catholic). The whole nine yards!! School, married to another catholic on the altar. 4 children. I wasn’t a GOOD catholic. As I found out when I had my tubes tied after my 4th child. Because it was not medically nessesary. I was excommunicated!
     from then on ( a long, long time), I have had my doubts.
     Since my life will end soon I have had to make decisions.
     I have decide to let things progress as they will.
     I am not here to pass judgement on you.(you could have taken an easier route ,I am thinking )

     I am neither religous or athiest. I do have a higher power tho, no name to put to it, but it works for me.
     The bible was no God’s words, it was written by men with no greater power than you or I.
     have you ever played the game of telephone? You are probably too young to know it.
     It’s where you sit in a group of people who whisper something in your ear and you whisper it to the next person and on till it gets back to you. Things are NEVER relayed as what you said.
     plus how many times has the bible been translated????

     I know I am going to take flack for what I am bout to say—-
     God created Adam &Eve. 1+1=2 ?
     they were driven out of Eden in shame for not obeying God’s commandment not to eat of the tree of knowledge.
     From Adam & Eve came Cain & Able. 1+1+1+1=4 If I am correct. Where did Cain & Able get their wives?????
     Did I miss something? When asked that question I was most always told to be ashamed of my asking.
     Now I have asked, any answers?

     I wish you the best and have no grievance toward you.
     Thank you for listeningto my ramblings.
     It is just so odd I came across you today.
     Hang strong!!!!!!!!!!!!!

     
     
     • on March 19, 2012 at 7:33 am | Reply Rob

       To KattB

       There are no answers to that, it is a fairy tale. Religious people give different answers, Christians generally say that there were other humans created by god but they weren’t specifically mentioned in the bible. Muslims say that Adam and Eve had 40 twins (all male and female), which all married each other to produce the next generation.
       It is better just to ignore all fairy tales because we actually have a better answer for where life came from, evolution.

       As for where life is going (I hope for you it will be much much later rather than sooner), the most likely explanation is that we will return to that wonderfully magical place we were at before we were born. Nothing to worry about, not health, financials, loved ones, nothing. No need to fear or concern yourself with an imminent death that we all must face in life. Eternal, blissful, nothingness.

       Speaking of eternal, the closest thing you can get to immortality is in the 4 children you have raised. You mentioned a higher power, I just hope that when you are battling this cancer you turn to your children and how much they mean to you for support. At least you know that they are real and can guarantee the inspiration to keep fighting.

       
       
       • on March 20, 2012 at 9:16 am | Reply Ken

         “No need to fear or concern yourself with an imminent death that we all must face in life. Eternal, blissful, nothingness.

         Speaking of eternal, the closest thing you can get to immortality is in the 4 children you have raised”

         How can nothingness be blissful? Wouldn’t it better to face the atheist reality that you cease to exist, and that’s it? Why does it matter if anyone remembers your purposeless life. Even your children will one day die, then for practical purposes you may as well have never lived.

         Or could it be this longing inside is because there is a God who has put eternity in our hearts? Even if evolution were true, it is hardly a ‘better answer to where life came from’, it only means we are all destined to oblivion. Well not actually destined, as there was no purpose in the first place …..

         
         
         • on March 20, 2012 at 11:16 am | Reply Rob

           I thought I explained what nothingness would mean quite clearly, I also explained what blissful would mean, it seems you did not get it.
           Ceasing to exist is nothingness, the same place you were before you were born, and since it is timeless, it is eternal. And it is eternal bliss since it is not eternal misery, worry and despair.

           Atheists do not have a purposeless life, just because you make up that a God gave you purpose. We all make our own purpose, some are just more hinged on reality than others.

           If you actually believe that life has a purpose which specifically relates to God giving you a purpose, then what is the purpose of babies that are born, suffer excruciating pain for days and days, and then die.

           Evolution is true, whether you like it or not, and life does all die, whether you like it or not. Just because you pretend that life will magically continue after you die, does not make it true. You are simply cowardly avoiding the fact that you will die, by lying to yourself that your life will continue forever.

           
           
           • on March 20, 2012 at 12:35 pm Ken

             You just intrigued me a bit as it is very common for atheists to assert a material only universe, and then act as though life has a purpose, as though anything ultimately matters – like removing a sentimental prayer! You are very obviously right that the one certain thing in life is death, but the assertion that that’s it is a statement of faith.

             I don’t think I am going to be magically made to continue after I die, but I am prepared to believe the God who gave life in the first place is capable of renewing it. For all the endless argument about evolution (and this is not the place for this) you have to have something ‘created’ in the first place that can evolve anyway.

             
             
           • on March 20, 2012 at 7:04 pm Rob

             Well not all atheists are ‘material only’, but it is quite easy to understand how a material only universe can give life purpose.
             You have made up a non material aspect to the universe (which we cannot test), and said that this gives your life purpose. That is fine, you can believe that all you want, just know that there is no evidence for this and probably never will be.

             I never asserted anything, I actually said “the most likely explanation”, that is not a statement of faith.

             Are you asserting there is a god, or are you prepared to believe there is a god?

             “you have to have something ‘created’ in the first place that can evolve”.
             You are asserting that this is true, there is no evidence to support that, and there is no evidence to support a god, this is why there are atheists.

             I do not know what you have been told what “atheists believe”, but atheists believe everything ultimately matters, since everything (matter) is all there is to ultimately matter about.
             It does not follow logically that because I simply do not believe in the god that you have asserted, I therefore believe life has no purpose and nothing matters. The opposite end of the spectrum to your extreme position is not the atheist position.

             I will repeat a question from my previous comment:
             If you actually believe that life has a purpose which specifically relates to God giving you a purpose, then what is the purpose of babies that are born, suffer excruciating pain for days and days, and then die?

             
             
           • on March 21, 2012 at 1:21 pm Ken

             I don’t think there is a glib answer to the problem of suffering. Any answer could only be provisional as the bible doesn’t give us the answers we would like to have.
             Suffering is a reflection of the fallen nature of man and the cosmos in general. In the end, all suffering and death springs from this indirectly (and in some cases directly).

             My own thinking on this has been influenced by the verse “But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.” and it is only then that death, disease and suffering will finally be destroyed. Any healings God performs in this life are but a token of what is to come, and our lack of righteousness is far more important than phyiscal well-being.

             “No more shall there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not fill out his days”.

             That’s the ultimate goal, and if suffering has any purpose in it at all, it would be to illustrate to man his precarious position over against his creator, and the effect that moral rebellion can have.

             In this life, we still have to ‘weep with those who weep’ when such dreadful things happen.

             
             
           • on March 21, 2012 at 10:54 pm Rob

             The problem of suffering should not be a problem if you believe in god. Either that god can prevent it or cannot prevent it. If god can prevent it and chooses not to, then god is either lazy, or is malicious, merciless, uncaring and unreliable.
             It would be irrelevant what answers and excuses you give for these questions, there is no positive reason to believe in that god.

             Furthermore, what reason would you have for looking to bible verses and considering them true, the ones you suggested are all wishful thinking. You would like to exist in a world where babies do not die, so you imagine a god that creates an afterlife in which this would occur. Not only can this afterlife not be investigated for its truthfulness, but this god could have just created that world you would like to live in, in the first place.

             Righteousness means that anyone who strictly adheres to their own moral code, which is pretty much everyone on the planet, are considered righteous.
             The second part of righteousness is that you can justify those moral codes, and just because your moral code is written in an ancient book does not justify your morals.
             The third part of righteousness is responding to injustice, and believing that your god

             My own thinking on this has been influenced by the verse “But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.” and it is only then that death, disease and suffering will finally be destroyed. Any healings God performs in this life are but a token of what is to come, and our lack of righteousness is far more important than phyiscal well-being.

             That’s the ultimate goal, and if suffering has any purpose in it at all, it would be to illustrate to man his precarious position over against his creator, and the effect that moral rebellion can have.

             
             
           • on March 21, 2012 at 11:12 pm Rob

             Ignore the last two paragraphs (since they are yours), and that last sentence which I didn’t finish because I must have pressed the post comment button by accident.

             I fail to see how moral rebellion from a god who who has not clearly outlined the moral code, deserves pain and suffering on everyone. This is injustice and if you were righteous, would be responding to such injustice.

             
             
           • on March 22, 2012 at 4:29 am Ken

             To describe God as either loving or almighty but not both due to suffering is to invent a God. The biblical God does have those attributes but others as well. He is absolute righteousness and holy. We are not – so why doesn’t God intervene to stop us in our unrighteous mistreatment of each other? To give us an opportunity to turn from this. As far as suffering is concerned, there may be reasons for this we cannot see or would never understand. I don’t think we will ever get a complete answer to this in this life, and the older I get the more I see God has no moral obligation to give one.

             You refer to me relying on the bible as the source of information on this, obviously in my view this is the word of God. There are very good reasons for believing this, both objective and more subjective, and a considerable conservative Christian literature on this if you want to think about it.

             One aspect of the bible is a very clear code of morality for everyday life – and just because it is ancient doesn’t mean it is wrong or out of date! Righteousness, like truth, cannot change. Most people have a sense of right and wrong (conscience), but where does it come from? Can an unguided process produce this? Why does every culture have a code of ethics it is unable to live up to? Because conscience is sometihing God-given, not innate to ourselves, and originating outside of ourselves not subject to our personal autonomy.

             I see biblical morality in a similar light – and I have known more than one person who has chosen atheism/unbelief as a response to a rejection of something the bible says not to do coupled with an unwillingness to do something it does require.

             
             
           • on March 22, 2012 at 9:17 am Rob

             The bible was written by different men at different times, was compiled by different men at different times (some chapters were added and some were removed), was translated multiple times by different men at different times, and was updated and revised by different men at different times.

             The oldest known bible is over 1600 years old and is a completely different version to your bible. The earliest any gospel was written, is at least 60 years after Jesus apparently died. The story of Jesus is incredibly similar to many other ancient myths, including characteristics like being born of a virgin, walking on water, executed and raised from the dead etc. There is not a single reference to Jesus during the time that he was alive even though there were many historians in Jerusalem that wrote about other historical figures (surely someone, anyone would have written about the son of god).

             Please explain how your bible could possibly be the word of god?

             “One aspect of the bible is a very clear code of morality for everyday life – and just because it is ancient doesn’t mean it is wrong or out of date!”

             Clear moral code? Where does it mention the condemnation of child molestation, genocide, infanticide, slavery, rape, torture etc.?
             Since humans have since then condemned all of these acts as completely immoral, wouldn’t that make your gods moral code out of date?

             
             
           • on March 23, 2012 at 9:11 am Ken

             I have a bible at home with the English translated in 1971 and the parallel Greek from the first Century, and the Greek is massively better attested than any other ancient set of documents both in number and age.

             There are references to Jesus in first Century writings, something quite remarkable considering the paucity of information about that part of the world in general. Josephus is one but not the only one, there are the early church fathers, and of course the 27 documents of the New Testament (which shouldn’t be discounted as history simply because of the religious angle).

             The NT is set in the context of Judaism, fiercely anti-pagan, and therefore unlikely to accept pagan ideas. There are few parallels between the NT and various pagan deities, and those that are do not mean dependence between them. The idea of resurrection, for instance, is absent from pagan religions, though it does have an OT background.

             The bible claims to be the word of God – the OT prophets claimed to be speaking for God over 2000 times, and this is also explicitly affirmed in the NT. God’s message, human authors.

             As for the moral code, the things you mentioned are covered by the general principle of ‘loving your neighbour as yourself’ which is the point of the OT law in a sentence. Some are specifically legislated against (rape), others such as slavery (or polygamy or divorce for that matter) are regulated.
             Because something is mentioned in the bible does not mean it is sanctioned or approved of, a frequent mistake of atheists and agnostics who haven’t read the text itself or taken the culture to which it was addressed into account enough. There are plenty examples of this in Dawkins’ site combox.

             
             
           • on March 23, 2012 at 9:12 am Ken

             I have a bible at home with the English translated in 1971 and the parallel Greek from the first Century, and the Greek is massively better attested than any other ancient set of documents both in number and age.

             There are references to Jesus in first Century writings, something quite remarkable considering the paucity of information about that part of the world in general. Josephus is one but not the only one, there are the early church fathers, and of course the 27 documents of the New Testament (which shouldn’t be discounted as history simply because of the religious angle).

             The NT is set in the context of Judaism, fiercely anti-pagan, and therefore unlikely to accept pagan ideas. There are few parallels between the NT and various pagan deities, and those that are do not mean dependence between them. The idea of resurrection, for instance, is absent from pagan religions, though it does have an OT background.

             The bible claims to be the word of God – the OT prophets claimed to be speaking for God over 2000 times, and this is also explicitly affirmed in the NT. God’s message, human authors.

             As for the moral code, the things you mentioned are covered by the general principle of ‘loving your neighbour as yourself’ which is the point of the OT law in a sentence. Some are specifically legislated against (rape), others such as slavery (or polygamy or divorce for that matter) are regulated.
             Because something is mentioned in the bible does not mean it is sanctioned or approved of, a frequent mistake of atheists and agnostics who haven’t read the text itself or taken the culture to which it was addressed into account enough. There are plenty examples of this in Dawkins’ site combox.

             
             
           • on March 23, 2012 at 9:34 pm Rob

             I never said the bible should be discounted as history, I said discounted as true, and since it got some of that history incorrect, would suggest it is not true.
             I am guessing you know the arguments against Josephus’ accounts, but still you should understand that you are hoping that one text is authentic to prove that another text is authentic. Even if you say that it is true, it seems weird that Jesus’ brother still managed to be alive at least 62 years after Jesus died.

             The idea of resurrection is actually abundant in many pagan religions.

             The anonymous writers of the bible claim it to be the word of God, there needs to be a great deal of external evidence to accept that claim. There is not nearly enough evidence to support it given the contradictions and errors of the new testament.
             It seems more likely that it is a human message which invokes a God to give the claims more strength, with of course human authors.

             The Qur’an claims to be the word of God, there is definitive evidence that Mohammed existed, and is vastly more accurate with regards to internal contradictions, history, science etc.
             So why do you believe the Qur’an is not the word of God, but the bible is?
             What evidence do you have that suggests your belief is correct, given that you would probably be a Muslim if you were born in Saudi Arabia?
             I would guess if you were raised as a Muslim, and I brought you all the evidence for the truthfulness of Christianity, you would not accept it.

             As for your last paragraph, it shows just how unclear that moral code is. If God wanted humans to be righteous, he would have communicated that moral code much more clearly and not in an ancient text, so that we could actually follow it. He has therefore set it up so we will always be unrighteous, which gives him an excuse to inflict pain and suffering on humans (and other animals, even though they never got that message). By definition that is an evil god, and not worth worshiping (not that a good god would be worth worshiping either).

             
             
           • on March 26, 2012 at 2:58 am Ken

             If I were Muslim and you presented me with convincing evidence that Christianity was in fact the truth, I would be morally culpable for refusing to believe it.

             As for God not making his requirements of us known, he has done so with all men in their conscience from the very beginning, and in the form of the OT law where this is made explicit. This means righteousness has been known for millenia. Add to this the NT and the bible containing this being the most sold book (thoug not the most read) and men have no excuse to say they couldn’t know.

             This idea of God delighting to inflict pain is a complete caricature. It ignores man’s moral responsibility for doing wrong, and the fact that God has done everything to provide forgivenness and a ‘not guilty’ verdict over men, and they choose in their unbelief to reject it. It’s like saying that when someone is found guilty of breaking the law of the land the judge who passes sentence on them is nasty and ought to be more tolerant. God’s judgement is the application of perfect justice to men who have trampled all over his law and done themselves and more importantly others harm, it’s nothing to do with torture or anything like that.

             
             
           • on March 26, 2012 at 9:01 am Rob

             I didn’t say ‘convincing evidence’ or ‘in fact the truth’, I said all of the evidence for the truthfulness of Christianity, there is a difference. There is no convincing evidence that Christianity is in fact true, otherwise you wouldn’t need faith in order to believe it.
             There is more evidence for the truthfulness of Islam than Christianity, and given they also believe in the divinity of Jesus, I doubt very much you would accept Christianity if you were a Muslim.

             There are many people on this planet who have never heard of the bible, so it is not clear at all, even to people who read it. Combine that with the immorality of the old and new testament, and the many untrue stories (like the exodus, adam and eve, noahs ark), it seems unlikely that this is a message from God.

             I never said God delighted in causing suffering in the world. This universe could have been created without death, pain and suffering. But apparently because humans are unrighteous (which God is responsible for if he created us), this gives him an excuse to inflict pain (on all living creatures) even before humans began to exist.
             So the message cannot possibly reach everyone or everything, and even if it does it is incredibly unclear (for instance “shall not kill”, the meaning of kill is ambiguous), but still God punishes everyone. This is either incredibly unjust or incredibly evil or both.

             
             
380. on March 19, 2012 at 12:10 pm | Reply Ken

     KattB – the bible has been translated only once – from the original Hebrew or Greek into the relevant target language, English in our case.

     As for Cain and Abel’s wives, A & E had other sons and daughters, and they married each other. The commandment against marrying siblings and other near blood relatives came a very long time afterwards!

     
     
     • on March 20, 2012 at 2:24 am | Reply Rob

       Cain was sent out to the land of Nod, and found his wife there, she was not one of his sisters. Abel had no children since he was dead.

       The old testament was translated from Hebrew to Greek, then to English (a few times and by different people). The King James bible is the third official translation into English, which was commissioned for the sole purpose of quelling rebellion by another sect within Christianity (they were rebelling due to apparent mistranslations with earlier copies). This was then later updated 150 years later, then again 100 years later, and has been revised multiple times during the 20th century to counter the radical changes of the culture.

       
       
381. on March 20, 2012 at 11:02 am | Reply Josz

     I was reading this in my computing class, and the entire time i did, i was thinking to myself “Is this guy serious? Does he really think that his irrational hatred and criticisms towards this smart and strong teenage girl have any bearing to his views and their credibility? I’ve been an atheist for about 3 years, and have followed this case closely from Columbus, GA, where religious tolerance is thankfully somewhat existent. My parents disagree with your case, but I support it fully. Tom can go burn in his imaginary hell that he loves talking about so much for all I care. this nation was founded under secular morals and values, and even documentation such as the Treaty of Tripoli and many letters written by John Adams refer to this country as “not founded under Christianity” and as “a secular nation” Keep doing what you’re doing, because you’ve got friends down south that support you 100% ^^

     
     
382. on March 22, 2012 at 3:39 pm | Reply Cole

     Keep doing what you’re doing! Defend the truth from insanity!! I support you 1000% percent, and will encourage others to do the same!

     
     
383. on March 22, 2012 at 3:39 pm | Reply Cole

     Keep doing what you’re doing! Defend the truth from insanity!! I support you 1000% percent, and will encourage others to do the same!

     
     
384. on March 25, 2012 at 6:59 pm | Reply DarcBird

     Well played Jessica, and I hope that life is good to you.

     
     
385. on March 25, 2012 at 11:49 pm | Reply Blake

     Hello, I have been reading what has been posted here for a couple of hours, as there is a lot of content, and I would like to say a couple of things.

     1. First I wanted to say that I fully support what you did and what you have been doing Jessica, you stood up for what is right and I applaud you for it. I also applaud you for not retaliating in kind to the people who are viciously attacking you for doing what you think is right.

     2. Some people seem to be somewhat confused about the definition of scientific theory. In science, a theory is created only after someone creates a hypothesis based on their observations and proceeds to test that hypothesis. If no one can prove, through experiment, that the hypothesis is false, then it can become a scientific theory. While evolution is “only” a theory, so is the idea of gravity, without which life would not be possible in its present form.

     3. I do not approve of anyone on either side of the discussion who reverts to the use of epithets against the other side when none are needed, and they are never needed. No matter what someone else says to us or people that we respect we should at least try to be reasonable. I know that that is not always easy, but it should be our goal. I do admit that I am sometimes tempted to say disparaging things about some people when they anger me, but you have the option to say those things in your mind or out loud, and then type something different. This is the internet; your first reaction to a statement does not need to be what you actually respond with.

     4. This is to those people who seem to think that atheists are close-minded and don’t listen. I would love it if there was an afterlife in which the people who die can be happy. I would be ecstatic if that was the case and if someone could prove it, I may be shocked at first but after that wears off, I would immediately start practicing and believing in that religion. I have yet to be presented with any such proof. I will admit as an atheist I believe that after I die I will cease to exist and that scares me sometimes, but I have yet to be presented with an alternative that stands up to the very basic questions I ask of anything I am asked to believe.

     I am sorry for any spelling or grammar errors I missed in my quick revisal of this comment. I would like to again state my support for Jessica and what she has done. Jessica, you are to be commended for standing up for your beliefs and enduring all of the attacks against your moral and legal actions. You have more courage than I do.

     Blake

     
     
     • on March 26, 2012 at 12:08 am | Reply Blake

       One more thing.

       If there was a “good afterlife” or a “heaven” i would want it to be this one:
       http://dresdencodak.com/2005/11/29/secular-heaven/

       Blake

       
       
     • on March 26, 2012 at 3:32 am | Reply Ken

       I liked your post! I appreciate your honesty in admitting to a fear of death, a subject that is taboo in the modern secular West.

       I don’t know what you would regard as ‘proof’ that Christianty is true. If you don’t want to start with the arguments about the existence of God and what he is like, step back a bit and ask yourself about the nature of man (used generically!). One reason I believe the bible is its honesty and realism in describing the nature of man, that by nature we are inclined to do what is wrong, what is selfish, self-love and self-esteem. You don’t have to teach children to do what is wrong. The problem is located in man, and is not due to external factors such as ‘society’ or religion or upbringing (though these may have an influence). The mudslinging on here you rightly dislike is proof of man’s sinful nature in itself, either with Christians being intemperate, or more likely imo unbelievers pretending to be Christians to discredit it i.e. lying.

       You will only get a clear picture of what God is like from the bible – though you will of course have to accept the possibility it is God’s word to man even if at the moment you don’t believe that. Science can give circumstancial evidence of the existence of God – the the universe itself ought to dispel nonsense like the FSM or sky pixie – rendering man without excuse. I don’t think science can prove the existence of God, because God isn’t part of the physical universe and not subject to repeatable experimentation or observation (something incidentally that applies to (macro) evolution).

       As for life after death, God raised Christ from the dead, and has promised to do the same for those who believe in him. If God exists and has promised this (and all we have is his ‘Word’ for it) then this is the only evidence you will have for this in this life except perhaps for things God does in your life that are a sufficient ‘down payment’ for you to be sure God is real and trustworthy and that you are not suffering from wishful thinking. It is a matter of trust that God will do what he has promised.

       And as you say, the notion of ceasing to exist at death is itself a statement of faith, something that often makes atheists upset as they mistakenly think they are the only ones with ‘reason’ and Christians only have ‘faith’.

       
       
       • on March 26, 2012 at 9:46 am | Reply Rob

         “not subject to repeatable experimentation or observation (something incidentally that applies to (macro) evolution)”
         So you agree that micro evolution has been proven? The only difference between macro and micro is the time scale, they are not different theories. If micro evolution has been proven, then macro evolution is also true.
         The difference between that and God is that there is no micro creation, so you cannot prove the macro creation is true. No matter how you look at it, evolution is supported by an extreme amount of evidence, and God (even by you own admission), will never have the evidence required to claim it a fact, which is why you need faith.

         “the notion of ceasing to exist at death is itself a statement of faith”
         All the evidence that humans have suggests that we cease to exist after death, it is a logical explanation without making things up. If you make up that you will be resurrected and live forever without any evidence at all, that is a statement of faith.

         
         
         • on March 27, 2012 at 7:30 am | Reply Ken

           Even ‘Answers in Genesis’ believes in evolution and natural selection when it comes to living beings, a site often lampooned by evolutionists. What is disputed is to apply this to the evolution of the universe, i.e. to immaterial objects. The theory has no explanatory power as to how this got started in the first place, nor how an unguided process could evolve from supposed simplicity to complexity. Personally, I find it harder to believe a purposeless process could produce the conditions necessary for life, a process that by definition wouldn’t know which direction to take to achieve the fine-tuning necessary for life, than to believe the appearance of design does in fact clearly show intelligence at work that may be understood with the mind.

           The nature of creation is indeed powerful evidence of the existence of God, it renders us without excuse for unbelief even if it is insufficient to know exactly what God is like, something requiring additional, special revelatory information. The notion faith is exercised without evidence is therefore wrong. Faith and reason go hand in hand.

           I doubt if any of us will llive long enough for this not to be a subject of contention, and afterward I am happy to believe the promises of God as where I am going.

           
           
         • on March 27, 2012 at 9:47 pm | Reply Rob

           Of course evolution cannot explain how the universe all started, it focuses on biology. We have physics to understand the process since the origin of the universe, and quantum mechanics to explain how universes can arise from nothing in a natural process.

           “I find it harder to believe a purposeless process could produce the conditions necessary for life”
           This is the argument from incredulity. Biologists used to think that humans were in a separate category to the other great apes because of the differences we perceive. However we have realized that we are actually closer related to chimpanzees than they are to gorillas. We follow the evidence wherever it leads, and so far all evidence points to a purposeless process.

           “The nature of creation is indeed powerful evidence of the existence of God”
           How do you know to call it creation? It can come about by many different methods and because you believe in a god you are calling it creation. You are removing a very large number of possibilities by wording the question incorrectly, not only that but a universe can be created without a god. So you are leading the evidence to your conclusion instead of letting the evidence lead you to an unknown conclusion.

           This is the opposite of reason, none of your arguments in any of your posts have used reason, they are all arguments from faith.
           What you have presented as evidence is not evidence for what you are trying to prove because you are interpreting it to fit your already existing beliefs. Your faith in an unsupported belief is corrupting your ability to reason correctly, they are contradictory, which is why faith and reason have never gone hand in hand.

           
           
       • on March 26, 2012 at 3:13 pm | Reply Blake

         I would like to take a moment to discuss something that seems to be a common theme in many religions, though I know that it is not true of all religions. Many religions, or at least religious people, seem to say that you need to be a good person AND you need to believe in their particular religion in order to get into heaven. I approve of the first stipulation, in that I would not want people who were evil in life to be rewarded for it in any afterlife that might exist. I do not like the second criteria, there are a variety of circumstances under which someone might never be exposed to some particular faith, and so it would be entirely not their fault that they are not a believer of that particular god. Should these people be punished? I think not. I do not believe in any religion, but if I were to start believing it would not be any faith that rejects someone simply because of things that are entirely outside of their control. I could continue on this and similar subjects, but right now I need to do homework.

         Blake

         
         
         • on March 27, 2012 at 4:59 am | Reply kimsland

           Hi Blake, I understand this concern.
           I actually went to a priest (or whatever they were) some 20 or so years ago about this same concern.

           My actual question was.
           If ‘Tarzan’ (I used a fictional character) lived a GOOD life in the jungle, with all his animal friends. And NEVER ever did anything against ‘God’ whatsoever.
           BUT, he NEVER praised the ‘Lord’, because he was never taught about Christianity (or any other religion)
           Would he go to heaven?

           This pastor/priests response > NO
           You MUST praise the Lord during your time on Earth (and all the rest of that ‘submissive’ type of stuff).

           I was shocked!
           Lucky I’ve been an atheist for as long as I can remember (ie always)
           Because this religious stuff is stupid.

           
           
           • on March 27, 2012 at 7:23 am Rob

             Religions pretty much have to say no. Most believers of course would say yes because they are moral people and understand what justice is. But if religions say yes, then people do not have to believe in their god to get a reward, and they can no longer sell their invisible product.

             
             
         • on March 27, 2012 at 11:57 am | Reply Ken

           Blake – you are making an assumption it is possible to decide what is good or evil. These are religious ideas, not suited to a world evolved from natural material causes only. Where do you get the standard to divide good from evil from?

           In raising the point about those who have never heard, going by the biblical revelation, all men have some idea of the existence of God from creation, and that is why you have all the differing religions of the world. As by definition there can only be one God, and if one God reveals only one truth and one way to God, it is encumbent upon us to try to find it, and certainly not to claim God has no right to set the conditions for knowing him, of deciding good and evil, and how we may be forgiven, and so on.

           As for those who have never heard of the biblical God apart from creation, long ago it was revealed “Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?” This means perfect justice will be applied to all men – and don’t forget no man is guiltless before God, either having knowingly or unknowingly broken God’s law, or else having acted against their God-given conscience, something God cannot simply ignore without being unjust. Any punishment is on this basis, people being given what they deserve, neither more nor less.

           So we have to leave the issue of judgment in God’s hands (we don’t actually have any choice!), and more to the point be concerned if we have heard about God and the gospel and not bothered ourselves with it, or dismissed it out of hand.

           
           
           • on March 27, 2012 at 2:11 pm Blake

             In answer to your first paragraph, I can determine what i believe is right and what is wrong, i don’t need any supposed higher power to tell me what i should do and what i should not do. The concepts of morality and ethics are not solely the property of religion.

             Based on what you have been saying, there is actually no way for us to know which religion is actually correct, or if even any of them are correct, because all we have is the sense that a god must exist. I actually disagree with the statement itself anyway, but even just using that argument it would be impossible to know what is the “true religion” or if it even existed in the world at all.

             Also there are many faiths that are polytheistic, in that they have more than one god or goddess. Could that not be true as well?

             You say that if someone lives a good life, then they will be rewarded in the afterlife. There is therefore no reason to believe in any religion, as that religion might be false. Whatever might actually be true, it would not matter what you believe, so long as you are a good person and have lived a good life.

             
             
           • on March 27, 2012 at 10:04 pm Rob

             “be concerned if we have heard about God and the gospel and not bothered ourselves with it, or dismissed it out of hand”

             What if you have spent the majority of your life researching the evidence and history before and after the gospel, including all other related religions and their history and evidence?
             What if you found that there is actually more evidence for the truthfulness of other religions than for Christianity?
             What if you found no conclusive evidence to support any religion or the support for a god existing at all?
             What if the only way I could believe incredibly ridiculous claims is to force myself to believe by taking a leap of faith, when all the evidence points in the opposite direction?

             
             
386. on March 28, 2012 at 11:49 am | Reply Ai

     Please stop bashing this poor girl. She is lost. God gives us second chances. In fact, He gives us many chances. We are not sinless. All of us have fallen short of the glory of God. Instead of treating her like this, think. Have your remarks changed anything? You’ve just made her hurt inside. Pray for her. Think about it, what would Jesus do? God loves everyone. God invited all of us into his home. It is our decision whether to reject him or accept him. I am definitely saddened about her strong belief, but that doesn’t mean we cannot love her. (In response to those rebuking her)

     
     
     • on March 28, 2012 at 2:24 pm | Reply Blake

       Thank you Ai for taking an offensive stance rather than a defensive one, too many people will say something along the lines of “Please understand, Jessica, that not all christians are like that” instead you say “stop hating.” it is refreshing to see someone actually say something that chastises those that are attacking Jessica rather than asking her to forgive them or something.

       Blake

       
       
     • on March 28, 2012 at 5:13 pm | Reply Rob

       I all due respect Blake, the reasons for saying “stop bashing this poor girl”, are mostly complete nonsense, and I would consider this insulting anyway.

       If Ai just said “you’ve just made her hurt inside” and “instead of treating her like this, think”, these are real reasons. Saying “she is lost”, is an insult to everyone who thinks like Jessica, ie. anyone who thinks with an open mind.

       I think Ai is lost for giving reasons that are not real as to why we shouldn’t insult someone, and then insult them in the process.

       
       
       • on March 28, 2012 at 10:52 pm | Reply Blake

         I am not saying that i agree with everything Ai said, i do in fact disagree with much of what Ai said. i simply meant that it is an improvement over the people that come here and bash on Jessica, or try to tell us that the people who do that aren’t real christians.

         Blake

         
         
       • on March 28, 2012 at 11:22 pm | Reply Rob

         I don’t think it is an improvement at all. It is more insulting to say someone is lost simply for not being as gullible as them, then to call someone an attention whore. It is demeaning and derogatory, and it applies to everyone who doesn’t believe in a god.

         
         
         • on March 29, 2012 at 1:18 am | Reply Blake

           I can see other people thinking differently about this subject than i do and i can respect that other people find some things insulting that i don’t. Sorry for encouraging something that you and others might find insulting.

           Blake

           
           
         • on March 29, 2012 at 4:29 am | Reply Rob

           I am not personally insulted, and I have no problem with what you said. I would have ignored him, but your comment would have given him the impression that what he said was right. ‘Religion makes normally good people say wicked things’, we should draw their attention to it more often.

           
           
     • on April 2, 2012 at 7:36 am | Reply Ken

       Ai We are not sinless .. have fallen short. …. You’ve just made her hurt inside.

       I appreciate you are wanting to distance biblical, authentic Christianity from the hurtful remarks of bogus “Christians”. In doing so, however, I think you have played down the seriousness of unbelief as it manifests itself in atheism, and of sin in general of which unbelief is a prime example. You are right that Jessica is ‘lost’, but worse than that she is ‘dead’ in trespasses and sins in which she walks. Unpleasant as these truths are, they need to be faced. Jessica’s unbelief is not some intellectual quirk, it amounts to moral rebellion against God, it is culpable rather than a mistake made by someone who is ‘innocent’. There is no legal defence for it possible before God.

       Now when talking of the love of God, this is manifested in ‘what Jesus did’ to rescue those – like ALL of us originally – who assert their independence from God and who break his law without a second thought. God does indeed invite us into fellowship/relationship with himself, but he also commands all of us to change our minds about our rebellion and selfishness if we are ever to be acceptable to him, and the refusal to do this is always part of the decision to reject him. It’s not lack of evidence, the problem is inside us.

       I also agree with you that any genuine Christian will be inclined to pray, as unless God does something to intervene we are all lost. I cannot imagine those who swear and are spiteful have ever prayed once in their entire lives! They are simply showing they are ‘lost’ as well.

       
       
       • on April 3, 2012 at 9:00 am | Reply Rob

         “Unpleasant as these truths are”, they are only truths to you, and unless you provide evidence for them, they are simply your hateful opinion.

         Telling people they are ‘dead’ unless they believe what you believe… Do you tell this to children? Do you tell people that if they question anything within the religion, they are unacceptable to your God, and therefore condemned to eternity of torture and suffering? Your beliefs are immoral, I find them repugnant and disgusting, and I hope you realize the full impact and intensity of an atheist, telling a christian that their beliefs are vile and abhorrent.

         
         
         • on April 3, 2012 at 12:01 pm | Reply Ken

           Rob – what would constitute ‘evidence’?

           “And you were dead in trespasses and sins …” – the word “dead” here is a metaphor, albeit a very powerful one. Why have you concentrated on this to the exclusion of the good news (as it were) about God being willing to intervene and do something about this, to rescue us from it? We are spiritually dead, but God, who is rich in mercy, is able to make us alive – and more than willing do so, provided we meet certain conditions.

           Where do you get the idea of an eternity of ‘torture’ from? Not the bible. I regard hell as a continuation of the emptiness of life without God as experienced now, and not like the popular caricature. Those who will go there are not victims, they have refused forgiveness offered, and must face perfect justice, no more no less. It is those who don’t ever want to be righteous being excluded, what is immoral about that?

           How should a righteous God treat unrighteous men who refuse to change? Turn them into robots and compel them against their wills?

           By what standard are you able to say what is vile and abhorrent or immoral? How do you measure good and evil from an atheist or agnostic perspective?

           
           
           • on April 3, 2012 at 2:49 pm Blake

             As an atheist, I determine what i think is right and what is wrong. I do not let it be proscribed to me through a religion, i think about my moral beliefs and come to a conclusion based on my thought process and i try to be a good person based on my person value system. I am good because i want to be, i am not good because some god will punish me for being bad. And yes, it is a punishment even if it is simply the lack of the reward for being good. I try to be a good person and help my fellow man when i can because i choose to do it of my own free will. No one is compelling me to do so. No god or religion is telling me that i will be rewarded for doing this but punished for doing that. I decide what i believe.

             That may seem selfish to some people, but it is what every one of us must do, we all must decide what to believe in. I choose to look at the evidence and i decided that there is no god. I, therefore, need to make my own moral and ethical system.

             Blake

             
             
           • on April 3, 2012 at 10:31 pm Rob

             “I regard hell as a continuation of the emptiness of life without God”. Well life without god is what I have now, so eternity of that sounds cool. (I do not see how not believing in a god makes your life empty though, the only reason you see it as empty is because you have had this imaginary friend for most of your life).

             But where does it say that in the bible? It says “they will gather from his kingdom everything that causes sin as well as all lawbreakers. They will throw them into the fiery furnace”, “But to the unbelievers their place will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur”, “tortured with fire and sulfur in front of the holy angels and in front of the Lamb. And the smoke from their torture will go up forever and ever”. Hell sure sounds like torture when you read the bible.

             It seems you are picking the verses that you like and ignoring the ones you do not like. You are using the same standard that I use to determine what is vile or immoral. If you are saying you are spiritually dead without god, that is insulting to people who are spiritual even though they do not believe in god, like Buddhists.

             “How should a righteous God treat unrighteous men who refuse to change?” (I don’t think I am unrighteous, I just don’t believe in nonsense).
             Show them some evidence, not the evidence that you have presented like Josephus, or the bible, or the nature of man (since this makes perfect sense once you realize we are animals descendant from other animals).
             Real evidence, something that materializes in the real world, is measurable the real world, observable in the real world etc.

             An example of evidence for the christian god would be a demonstration that prayer works more consistently than random chance and prayer of other religions. Or evidence for any of the stories in the bible which involve miracles. The evidence so far conclusively shows prayer does not work and many stories of the bible are utterly false.

             
             
387. on March 30, 2012 at 7:33 am | Reply Jonah

     This is a question to atheists. When someone passes away, what happens to them?

     
     
     • on March 30, 2012 at 10:44 am | Reply Rob

       They magically get resurrected by a mystical being, who miraculously has existed for eternity, and live in a wonderful enchanting world forever, where everything is perfect and is populated by other humans that believed in that mystical being while they were still in our world….

       Or nothing happens to them.

       
       
     • on March 30, 2012 at 5:18 pm | Reply Blake

       We return to nonexistence. Our body remains to be buried or eaten by insects or whatever. The mind dies when the body does as the mind only exists in the brain, which is part of the body.

       In other words, they cease to exist.

       Blake

       
       
     • on March 30, 2012 at 9:16 pm | Reply SteveInCO

       After you are dead, you will be in exactly the same state of existence as you were in 1800. It didn’t bother you then, and it won’t bother you at that future time either. That is what non-existence is like.

       Some theists seem to be under the impression that we atheists expect to spend eternity in something like a state of sensory deprivation, being conscious but neither burning in hell or being in heaven. Not true, at least not for any atheist I’ve ever talked to. When we die our consciousness ceases to exist entirely.

       
       
       • on March 31, 2012 at 3:34 am | Reply Jonah

         Thank you for answering my question.

         
         
       • on March 31, 2012 at 7:47 am | Reply Ken

         The notion that we cease to exist at death is one of pure faith. Christians belief God will raise them from the dead one day, and atheists believe they simply return to the elements – it’s just a case of atoms ceasing to bang around in their heads giving the illusion of thought and volition.

         Since Christianity involves judgement – the application of perfect justice to the life we have lived, I would have thougth it the height of folly not to very carefully consider its truth claims, rather than to dismiss them out of hand. There are far too many people who do this.

         
         
         • on March 31, 2012 at 10:56 am | Reply Rob

           Faith is believing something when their is no evidence to support it or evidence to the contrary. There is evidence that we cease to exist once we die, we know that a state of non existence exists, and there is no evidence to suggest that anything else happens. Everything we see around us does ‘return to the elements’, and you cannot provide one example where that is not the case.
           That is not faith, that is the default logical answer based on rational thinking and the available evidence. To say that something else happens without any evidence, that is faith.

           I and most atheists have very carefully considered its truth claims, and they are not true.

           
           
         • on April 1, 2012 at 1:19 am | Reply Blake

           It is not based on faith that i think that i will cease to exist as a sentient being when i die, it i based on the evidence. Namely, there is no evidence that suggests there is an afterlife, good or bad, and before we existed we did not exist. This means that when we die we revert to what we were before being alive, since being not alive is the thing that is similar between before life and after life, and so we cease to exist once again. I was never “taught” this by anyone or any organization, it is the conclusion i came to based on the evidence available to me.

           Blake

           
           
     • on April 23, 2012 at 1:12 pm | Reply Eric Schuller

       Honestly I haven’t a clue. And I’d rather save that knowledge for when its my turn to take the greatest adventure of all.

       
       
388. on April 13, 2012 at 12:48 pm | Reply Reza Mikhaeil

     Well I’m a believer in G-d, as it were. However I also do not reject all evolution, neither do I believe in creationism. I also believe that the constitution is one of the greatest historical documents ever wrote in the history of the world.

     The constitution is one of the most unique pieces because it was written during a time that nearly every government in the world had incorporated religion into and it was secular. Not secular as the current Turkish and French forms of secularism but a moderate secularism. So for Evangelicals to say that it was founded upon G-d is obviously ridiculous. Not to mention “endowed by their creator” was added later. So was “one nation under G-d” in the pledge. I believe that we should revert back to the original documents.

     Personally, I can believe in G-d as an internal and privately external element in my life. However I completely disagree with imposing it upon anyone else. It is often imposed on me by Evangelicals, for which I am not Evangelical and it’s down right oppression. I’m sure that the internal objection is the same for Atheists.

     In your case, I’m glad that justice prevailed, because as Dr. Cornel WEst has said, “justice is what love looks like in public”.

     
     
389. on April 14, 2012 at 12:21 am | Reply Christopher Blackwell

     Government is not supposed to support or deny religion.government, especially according to our constitution is supposed to be neutral on matters of religion. For any government entity to even appear to be supporting any religion is illegal..Our forefathers were very plain on what they men.It was why we do not have a religious test to hold office.Our forefathers anticipated that Atheists, and people of other religions would have those offices and they did not want even Muslims, Pagans nor atheists denied the right because they were not christian.As they said we have no idea of what the religion of the United States will be in five hundred years. They did not consider it the job of government to determine that.

     So for the government to even look like it was showing favor for one religion over another, or one denomination over the other is illegal.remember our forefathers lived in colonies where one denomination had special rights over anther, they knew full well how much damage that could do. Now it was true that Christians for generations were not able to live up to the ideal of our forefathers, but we are closer to getting there now than at any other tim ein our history.

     
     
390. on April 14, 2012 at 12:24 am | Reply Christopher Blackwell

     By the way,the cost to the taxpayers is because the school wanted to continue to beak the law and fought it. Had the school been obeying the law, it would have cost the taxpayers nothing. So why do Christians believe that they can break the law using taxpayers money. The members of the school, or school board, that supported this fight should have to pay back the cost to the taxpayers.

     
     
391. on April 14, 2012 at 12:35 am | Reply Christopher Blackwell

     Ken,just because Christians believe their religion does not in anyway prove it is true.Making a claim is not the same as proving it true.You can no more prove that god is going to bring you back to life than an Atheist can prove he will not exist after he dies. Actually science says that neither energy nor matter can be created nor destroyed, only changed. There is no way to prove either view. Now as a Pagan I believe in the possibility or reincarnation. Again that is unprovable.But it probably does not matter in it is just as likely that all of us are wrong.

     The value with a belief may be only that it helps you get through life and gives you hope when things are going wrong for you. But there is never a way to prove if your opinion is right or wrong. Each person goes home with the same opinion that they came in with most of the time.

     Now I will likely have both Christians and Atheists upset with me. That is okay as well. Remember I have no problem with the possibility of being wrong. I do wonder why everyone else does, or seems to.

     
     
392. on April 17, 2012 at 5:18 am | Reply Ken

     Christopher B. “You can no more prove that god is going to bring you back to life than an Atheist can prove he will not exist after he dies”.

     Precisely, which is why I say both are an expression of faith. I said this with regard to atheism somewhat tongue-in-cheek, as the atheist creed (as it were) is that they have an ‘absence of faith’. It’s too good an opportunity to miss to stir it up a bit!

     The Christian’s basis for saying they will be raised is that God exists, and that Christ was raised from the dead, witnessed and recorded in writing. God has promised to do the same for those who believe in him, with a real body in a real world doing real things.

     As far as the constitutional issue goes, I understand it that Congress shall not make laws regarding the establishement of a particular religion or denomination, unlike the UK, for example with the C of E. Individual States did have that right, and some did so for quite some time after independence. So whilst putting up a prayer in a public school might be considered unwise in a multi-religious country, I still think making such an issue of this as done here was reductio ad adsurdum/making a mountain out of a molehill with regard to something that had probably spent most of its time being quietly ignored.

     As a Brit, might I add, one day we will get those 13 colonies back …..

     
     
     • on April 17, 2012 at 8:29 am | Reply Rob

       I already refuted Christopher’s claim in the other thread. Not all claims are equal. We can make judgements on what is more likely out of the available possibilities, and even about one possibility.

       Is it more likely that unicorns exist or do not exist? Is it more likely that unicorns exist than aliens exist?
       We can make a rational decision based on logical arguments and the available evidence.

       Is it more likely that there is a sun or not a sun?
       We can fully understand that some explanations are more likely than others, because there is independent verifiable evidence to support those explanations.

       We have a very good understanding of consciousness and the brain, and what would happen to that consciousness if the brain dies.
       We were not alive when dinosaurs existed, but we know they existed to the best of our ability. The same can be said of the big bang and dark matter etc., we do not accept them based on faith, but on the evidence. All of the evidence currently available in relation to death and consciousness, suggests that our consciousness will die.

       Christopher said “neither energy nor matter can be created nor destroyed”, the idea of consciousness not existing after death not only conforms to this scientific law, but is based on it.

       
       
       • on April 17, 2012 at 2:01 pm | Reply Blake

         I agree with Rob, atheists use evidence to say that our consciousnesses cease to exist when we die, not faith. We may be wrong, but it is the most likely thing to actually occur, and so that is what we think will happen.

         From what i can tell, most religions originate based on some combination of fear and greed. This is not to say that people that are a part of the religions are doing so because of those things, simply the origin of the religion.

         Fear, as in fear of the unknown. People made up stories about natural phenomena and those stories evolved into the first religions, and it is only natural that some of those stories involved death and what happens to people who die. As time has progressed religions have broken off from each other and stolen different aspects of other religions to suite their own needs.

         Greed in that, as one science fiction author and founder of Scientology said “The way to make a million dollars is to start a religion.” or some variation on that. This mostly applies to religions created somewhat later than the first religions. As time has progressed the creation of a religion started more in the fear area and has slowly moved towards the greed element.

         Before religious people complain that they are not like this, please understand that i am talking about the origin of religions, not the people that make up those religions today.

         I think it is passed time that we let go of superstitions and look at the evidence available to determine what we believe. We should not rely on books that are thousands of years old to tell us what is right or true and what is wrong or false. We can certainly use them as a point of reference, but they should be at most one point of reference out of thousands.

         Blake

         
         
393. on April 18, 2012 at 3:56 am | Reply Tugs N McCowan

     I have just read Gabriel Christos rant.

     How could someone be so ignorant of facts and science in the TWENTY FIRST CENTURY?

     None of his assertions are proof of any god existing.
     None are even worth replying to.

     
     
394. on April 18, 2012 at 8:57 pm | Reply Godless Scandinavian

     Jessica, you are an inspiration and a shining beacon of light of reason above the murky waters of superstition. Thank you!

     
     
395. on April 23, 2012 at 11:45 am | Reply Eric Schuller

     Jess, you are an inspiring young woman who should be congratulated for doing what so many people are afraid to do because they fear the wrath of others who assume that they are right based on religion.
     I honestly think that this world needs more people like you who are not afraid to stand up for what’s right in the world, and have the courage to look people dead in the eye and stand your ground.
     You make me proud to be an American as you are a fine example of what this nation needs in its leaders.
     I salute you and your cause!
     Sincerely,
     Eric Schuller.

     
     
396. on April 26, 2012 at 5:58 am | Reply cally

     Dear Jessica, Good luck. You are a very brave and articulate lady. I’m sorry that Christianity sometimes have to spoil things for everybody because they think God is lending them ‘divine’ right, or they have majority rule. (i’m not sure they do, tbh) Take care and good luck x

     
     
397. on April 29, 2012 at 10:18 pm | Reply Kitty

     Dear Jessica,

     Although I am a committed Christian and do not agree with you regarding: (1) the existence of God, (2) your interpretation of the meaning of “separation of church and state” (I would recommend resources from wallbuilders.com), and (3) your desire to have the banner removed], I nevertheless do want to (1) commend you for being gutsy enough to stand up for something you believe in so strongly — that is incredibly admirable, and (2) tell you I am so sorry for the way many who call themselves Christians have treated you. While I disagree with you, you should never have been treated the way you have been and continue to be treated.

     I will continue to keep you in prayer — that you may someday come to know the love of our incredible, amazing, and holy God. Much peace to you and your family.

     
     
398. on May 3, 2012 at 1:16 pm | Reply Cris

     Big props to Jessica for having such courage. Had I been able to develop my convictions and fortitude at such an early age as her, I’d be much further along in my own life’s evolution toward an ideal success. I have to give even more kudos to Toby Cooper and his destroying the ignorant ramblings of GabrielChristos. His quasi-intellectual views against evolution are only good because people like Toby can respond with ACTUAL scientific evidence and then people like me can become more educated. Had it not been for Gabriel twisting science around for his own purposes (as I’m sure he does with his own religion) I wouldn’t have just expanded my own knowledge from reading Toby’s rebuttal.

     Since Toby’s eloquent reply is in the older thread of this story, I took it upon myself to copy and paste it to this more current one. Toby, I apologize in advance if you didn’t want anyone to do this, but your post is filled with so much good information and is written in a way that makes it easy for people to understand evolution, especially the rebuttals against what I’m afraid many people have been misinformed about or might otherwise believe, that I felt it to be a crying shame if people who read this story were not able to see your reply to GabrielChristos. So here it goes:

     Toby Cooper

     In response to your first point:

     “No such fossils exist. No fossils exist showing the evolutionary process of ape to man…”

     Creationists and scientists are speaking an entirely different language it seems when referring to transitional fossils. A transitional fossil is any fossil that displays characteristics of two distinct taxonomic groups. Much of the language creationists throw around about transitional forms or “missing links” is derived from misunderstood or outdated scientific methods. Scientists used to have a very linear concept of evolution evidenced by the very tall, strait tree-like diagrams they often used to show ancestry. Evolution usually doesn’t work that way. Today we know that the more complete a graphic is showing ancestry, the bushier it will be.

     So how about the evolutionary “process” of “ape to man”? Before I answer, let me pose an equally silly question. Where is the evidence that sparrows evolved from birds? What’s wrong? Do you not understand the question? Sparrows ARE birds, aren’t they? Yes they are. They possess all the identifying characteristics of the taxonomic group commonly referred to as birds. You may find the next bit of information shocking…human beings ARE apes in the same sense that sparrows are birds. We belong to the super family Hominoidea, more specifically to the family hominidae or great apes. I have bothered to include this information because, based on what I have read from you so far, I sincerely doubt you are aware of this fact. I will not use your display of ignorance on this fact to distract me from your more blatant demonstration of ignorance, that there are no transitional fossils between earlier primates, that you would no doubt classify as apes, and Homo sapiens.

     Australopithecus afarensis lived between three and four million years ago, was bipedal, and while its skull was still relatively similar in size and form to a chimpanzee, it was already transitioning to a more human-like dentition, more so than its cousin, Ardipithecus ramidus which had branched off earlier but showed even more “primitive” characteristics like a more arboreal suited foot and more specialized teeth, not to mention smaller brain.

     Australopithecus africanus shows continued brain development as well as increasingly more human-like teeth. Body size was also increasing. This was about two to three million years ago. Very similar to Australopithecus africanus was the more recent Homo habilis that lived between one to three million years ago. Habilis had a face becoming much less “ape” like and continued to show progression in tooth development and foot development as well as an increasing brain size. This species also shows an extensive use of tools.

     Homo erectus continued the trend by further increasing brain size, skeletal morphology, dentition, tool use, etc. Early Pleistocene Homo sapiens continued the trend further and by the late Pleistocene were almost identical to Homo sapiens sapiens of today. Every single species listed here is a transitional fossil and has been known to science for quite some time. There are additional species and subspecies between each of those listed above. Are there empty spaces between each of them? Of course and when those get filled there will be twice as many empty spaces between those. That doesn’t change the fact that every single one of them is a transitional fossil. Something that you claim emphatically doesn’t exist.

     “no fossils exist showing the evolutionary process of dinosaur to mammal…”

     I agree with you here. Mammals didn’t evolve from dinosaurs.

     “and no fossils exist showing the evolutionary process of dinosaur to bird (yes, there is the dinosaur bird – Archaeopteryx – but that’s exactly what it is – a dinosaur bird and nothing more which is why there are no fossils showing the evolutionary process of it.).”

     I can just as easily list multiple transitional fossils from therapod dinosaurs to birds, fish to tetrapods, amphibians to reptiles, reptiles to mammals, terrestrial mammals to whales and so on. These fossils and exact copies of them fill museums the world over. At this point it seems too much like beating a dead horse. If I have to I will list them but for now let’s deal with your next bit of deception.

     “Darwin himself stated that the biggest argument against his theory would be a lack of transitional fossils which he predicted would be found very shortly. More than a century later and we are still lacking transitional fossils because they don’t exist. If evolution were true, MILLIONS of transitional fossils would exist but none do.”

     Darwin said no such thing. This is what Darwin said in his book On the Origin of Species:

     “Why then is not every geological formation and every stratum full of such intermediate links? Geology assuredly does not reveal any such finely graduated organic chain; and this, perhaps, is the most obvious and gravest objection which can be urged against my theory. The explanation lies, as I believe, in the extreme imperfection of the geological record.”

     Darwin was acknowledging an incomplete fossil record, something that has been added to significantly since he wrote those words and is being added to as we speak.

     In Darwin’s day there was little understanding of what circumstances were required for fossilization to occur. When compared to the number of living things that have existed on earth, the number of them that will be represented in the fossil record should be very small. This is expected by geologists and paleontologists. Most paleontologists will tell you that we are lucky to have as many fossils as we do. Either way it has no bearing whatsoever on the truth or falsehood of evolution. Once again, however, the evidence is squarely against you on this point as well. Millions of transitional fossils do exist and we happen to have found many thousands of them.

     Your questions 2-4 represent such a profound ignorance of genetics and evolutionary theory that they don’t even warrant a response. This coupled with the fact that you seem to be referencing an actual, literal global flood/ark story makes me reluctant to address it. Simply put, I don’t know how to respond without sounding like I am ridiculing you. I would like to avoid that if possible. You cannot use the science of genetics to back up your claims about Adam and Eve in one sentence then in the next sentence reject the same science because it disputes your claims about Adam and Eve. The DNA of an organism is such a good indicator of evolutionary ancestry that we can estimate, based on genes, the aproximate time period that certain evolutionary changes occurred and then go digging in strata from that geological time to find transitional fossils. And we find them.

     One thing I will bother to address is the common straw man GabrielChristos resorted to in question five.

     “I’d still rather believe that we are just random accidents because it makes me feel good about myself.”

     You make here the common error of equating evolution with randomness. I am going to take your random series of characters and apply a simple criteria of selection. I am not rearranging anything. Just selecting out letters that interfere with words being formed. This doesn’t look quite so random. Now if I wanted to apply different criteria I could get even less random, more coherent combinations.

     shims
     go
     moms fog
     rods
     disk
     joked
     mole
     dj
     dud
     wow
     fork
     pop
     dodo

     That is what evolution does. It selects from a sampling of random changes in genetic code. If a change contributes to the survival of a given gene it is preserved. If doesn’t it is either discared or ignored. It does this with no intelligence necessary. Unlike the limitations I placed on my manipulations of your characters, natural selection can duplicate genes. It can rearrange them. It can fuse them. All sorts of things. Only the raw materials of evolution are random. The process is not. It was, in fact, the fusion of two common “ape” chromosomes that caused the difference in the chromosome count between humans and the other great apes. The theory of evolution was used to predict this fusion in great detail before the genetics confirmed these suspicions.

     None of your claims of a requisite intelligence are supported by evidence. The second law of thermodynamics only requires entropy (read chaos) to increase in a closed system and even then it is only total entropy. The earth is not, nor has it ever been, a closed system. All the data suggests that the universe as a whole is winding down, increasing total entropy. Symmetry is a common property of physical laws and symmetry is a predictable property of evolved biological systems. No guiding intelligence necessary.

     GabrielChristos then said:

     “Atheism is the belief that the universe came from nothing…”

     “Atheism is senseless and don’t take my word for it, even Sir Issac Newton – author of the most influential science book ever – said as much!”

     Atheism is not the belief that the universe came from nothing. There are atheists that believe the universe was always here in some form. There are atheists that accept an oscillating universe. There are some that think it originated from a multiverse, other universes colliding and so on. Some atheists have no idea or opinion about where the universe came from. All that is required to be an atheist is that you don’t accept the existence of a god or gods. That’s it. You don’t get to redefine words to make an argument.

     And for the record Newton was also an alchemist who believed he could turn lead into gold. I wouldn’t invoke him as an authority on any subject other than Newtonian physics if I were you.

     As to Gabriel’s list of biblical proofs, citing the historically accurate portions of a piece of historical fiction in no way confirms the accuracy of the rest of the work. And that is assuming that the given list is accurate in its conclusions. I was going to draw some amusing analogies with “Gone With the Wind” but I’m tired. This point seems so obvious that I hardly think it’s necessary anyway.

     
     
399. on May 10, 2012 at 11:55 am | Reply Pucho

     MUCH LOVE TO YOU JESSICA AHLQUIST AND FORGET ALL THESE HATEFUL & JUDGMENTAL CHRISTIANS SENDING YOU HATE ME & DEATH THREATS !!!

     
     
400. on May 10, 2012 at 11:09 pm | Reply Brittanie

     I feel physically ill after reading that. I kept thinking that, if only I were on that page I could have done something. I memorized many of the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth so when christians attack me, I can use their own teachings against them. It’s quite useful. Matthew is my favorite.

     
     
401. on May 12, 2012 at 6:09 pm | Reply Adam O'Dell

     Whoa, feel that Christian love. Also, Christians- note, what Jessica does here is called a “blanket statement”, when someone’s pissed off about a group it’s hard not to make one of these. Jessica doesn’t hate ALL Christians, in fact, she probably only hates about 5%, these loon extremists. And she has every right to, given well, the absolute atrocities in word form penned against her. I’m thankful that none of those actions were actually carried out. But to call this woman an evil little thing? I mean sure, now it’s endearing but that’s not funny at all for a STATE REPRESENTATIVE to say. Talk about professionalism. Is Rhode Island a haven for religious extremists and gnostic theists? Or is that just Cranston? And also, those who feel antagonized by Jessica- those who feel they need to speak out- if you say something rude to her, don’t expect her to say something nice to you. That’s not how conversation works. So don’t go “oh look how nice those atheists are!” in a sarcastic bent after you practically called her a salivating dumbass little girl cuntface bitch. Good day.